Keep encouraging it! You are right, they will stand and help you fight for this little angle if they love the OC, especially if they know your husbands reasons and desire to be the OC father

It will help get a lot of stress off your husband shoulders if it's out and in the open.

Tom, my BH has sought counsel from our pastor, which has been an immense help. And putting the court case aside is probably the best advice we've gotten, while applying MB principles to aid in redirecting our focus from court to our M. I have a good feeling if we keep working at demonstrating love, we'll find our "happily ever after."

My parents would say the same thing about my brother and me.

May I make a suggestion? As a veteran AO'r: I could always feel the anger welling up before I actually blew. I used to grab a pillow and slam it against things (not people ) when that happened. I found that slamming it against door frames worked quite well to defuse some of my frustration and anger.

No joke. Tell BH to try it. It might help.

Thx, marital! I will! That beats holes in walls!

This is unquestionably excellent and definitely constitutes progress. Hat�s off to you�

Isn�t it amazing how often unequivocal honesty & transparency produce positive results? I am very glad to hear that your BH has been made aware (especially by you personally) of ALL the possible & likely outcomes, repercussions, and future steps to be prepared for. Do you know why �yesterday was the first day of no angry outburst in 6 months�? It is simple�your BH finally is starting to feel RESPECTED. You have informed him fully and shown him the courtesy and respect he deserves in allowing him to make his own decisions in full knowledge. Encouragingly, he seems on board with recovery & OC now that he�s a fully involved realistic partner instead of a passive, confused, violated victim. Excellent work.

I really doubt �exposure to your in-laws� (even if the OC turns out to be from the OM) will go anything but WELL. Sure, it will be uncomfortable and awkward at first but there�s a high degree of likelihood that they will be understanding and supportive of both of you. Once again, people are usually very, very forgiving when presented with sincerity, contrition, and truthfulness & usually very, very unforgiving when those elements are denied.

Now, the 2 of you can face together the next hurdle�which is getting & keeping OM out of your lives completely and permanently. It sounds like the prospects for that are also good. Well done.

WH,

You said something that struck me as strange and I am not sure I understand your thoughts on it. You said You seem to think his anger is because he could not and did not face reality. That seems to me a HUGE disrespectful comment about your H. His problem is not that he could not face reality, it was that the reality you put on him, put him in purgatory. He had no choice in this "reality" he is in.

If anyone was not facing reality it was you and the fantasy of the OM and how life would go once you had the affair.

I agree with a few other posters, alot of your H's anger came from and will come from the "reality" that he had no say in any of this and frankly the courts have more say even now. The child will always be YOURS so your folks will accept it. The child is not biologically his or his families, that requires a series of decisions that are not automatic, but require some serious soul searching. They won't blame the child, but how you handle it will help or hurt how they react.

Your H has decided that he is going to hang in there. That is not "facing reality", that is taking reality (one he does not like) and deciding to deal with it in a positive way.

I worry that you seem to think he has been hiding from "reality" with his anger, when in fact it is likely that the "reality" is what made him angry. He had no control, no respect given (your affair and the child not to mention the OM), and no say. He is presented with a "take it or leave it" situation and most folks don't react kindly to being forced into a corner.

It sounds as if he is working his way out of the corner, but his decision is still "binary" (yes/no).

Please note and you can pass this on to him that anger is a secondary emotion driven by primary ones such as: pain, fear, frustration, anxiety, etc. Do you think he felt any of those? I'm guessing he felt them all and does now. You two might discuss which ones he feels and how to address the primary ones so that the anger can be short curcuited.

I look forward to your response.

God Bless,

JL

Quote

I worry that you seem to think he has been hiding from "reality" with his anger, when in fact it is likely that the "reality" is what made him angry. He had no control, no respect given (your affair and the child not to mention the OM), and no say. He is presented with a "take it or leave it" situation and most folks don't react kindly to being forced into a corner.

Yes, exactly. That's why I think the last 8 pages of this thread are just wishful thinking. Now that the OP has confessed, given all of her passwords and daily whereabouts to her husband, and instructed him thoroughly in how their recovery should go, she (and quite a few people here) seems to think they will live happily ever after.

Wanthealing, it seems as if you think that if you keep your husband's thinking focused on the direction that YOU want things to take, and reinforce that through continual dialogue, that he will just play along. Your husband's refusal to do a simple DNA test and inability to tell his parents should tell you where his mind is REALLY at. Your husband isn't focused on your marriage right now, he's focused on damage control. Right now he doesn't have to make a decision, but he will have to soon.

Quote

I am very glad to hear that your BH has been made aware (especially by you personally) of ALL the possible & likely outcomes, repercussions, and future steps to be prepared for

Yes, great isn't it when a WS spells out what they see should happen to recover. Now that he's aware I'm sure he'll be more than happy to follow the game plan, meeting all milestones.


And he should be very happy that he's getting to make a decision on his own, seeing that everything else has been decided for him. What a great set of options he gets to choose from.


SDWC man, I'm not trying to call you out but I couldn't resist when I read this. I know you're trying to encourage wanthealing, but this is a remarkably naive view.

These are all definitely good points, because it's clear to both my BH and me that he's stuck in damage control mode. His primary emotion that he said he feels is fear--fear of losing me to OM in the end. But when I tell him I'm not giving up on our marriage, he really embraces those words. That constant reassurance that I'm not leaving him seems to make a huge difference in how he reacts.

Essentially "reality" can be whatever choice my BH makes, and he knows that. In the past few days I think him reading the postings and tiring of the "defensive actions" have helped redirect his focus, and he does want it to be the M recovery. The angry outbursts have pretty much stopped since I've started this thread, and we're focusing on fun time together. We are both making tons of effort to really put each other first, and it's working.

As for the DNA issue, his basis for refusing to take the test is to keep OM away. My BH doesn't think the crime of adultery should warrant an OM to simply get what he wants without resistance. And really it's the victim (my BH) who should get to determine who he wants to forgive and who he doesn't want to forgive. So it's not about denial, really. But my BH has expressed a major change of heart that this case will not demand his attention anymore and he'll let the attnys deal with the details. So at least it's not on the forefront anymore.

And as for exposure to the fam, I think he's starting to agree that we need to get it over with. Baby steps. I think once it's out there the burden of secrecy will be lifted and we'll all breathe a sigh of relief. But I know he's concerned about his fam telling him to divorce me, and he doesn't want to fight with them about his choice to stay with me. Which is another reason I think he should tell sooner than later...so that at least he can hear what they have to say. All in all, I want my BH to have what he deserves--a happy life and a faithful wife and loving family. While I would rather die than hurt him again and I would swear on my life that I'd never do this to him again, if a fresh start is what is best for him, I'd rather him take it than stay with me and risk heartache. But I truly do hope he decides he wants to stay with me, because we've been through so much together over the course of our M (not relating to my A) and have something amazing and special that we both really cherish that only we can give each other.

Actually, I did not tell him how to recover. Dr. Harley gave him counsel on this, and his other counselor has been reiterating similar principles about recovery. I simply am trying to remind him of what we're hearing in our counseling sessions, since ultimately it's for our M's good. He doesn't want our M to fail. He wants it to thrive. But he also needs to be reminded of what are love busters so that we can start eliminating them. And we're seeing a lot of improvement ever since we've vocalized the love busters and are talking through our hopes for our M.

WH,

You certainly like to use the "royal WE" don't you? Do you realize you make your H sound as if he is an idiot and that only with your guidance and reminders will he be able to reach the "right" decision? Man, talk about disrespectful judgements.

You speak of your H as if he is your child and you have no respect for his reasoning ability. You also agree he is "stuck in damage" control, but really that is a major factor right now. His family probably won't approve of his decision to remain with you. The OM is trying to insert himself into your life via the courts. YOu have proven to be a liar and a cheat. And he has to adjust to rearing another man's child when in fact he had no say in that other than to believe you took your vows seriously. What keeps rattling around in my head is the famous line

I'm not trying to beat you down, but I am trying to get you to see what your approach indicates to me. The seeds of the destruction of this marriage still remain in how you view, treat, and talk about your H.

He should be in damage control right now, because a lot of damage remains to be addressed his life. He needs more than your reassurance, he needs you to truely see him far differently than you have in the past. I understand that he takes heart in your commitment to the marriage, but what you don't understand is that this commitment of yours offers him options beyond simply divorcing you. That is good, but whether he wants to remain married or not, he must evaluate his comfort in this marriage, his sense of failure in this marriage, and whether he feels he is good enough to keep you from deciding to do this again.

What you have not factored in is the damage you have done to him. He is NOT confident of his abilities as a husband, a lover, and certainly as a father right now. You using the "royal WE" isn't really going to help. You meeting his needs, you changing your perspective on life, commitment, vows, and honor will help him.

I know you see the current problems as HIS problems with anger, but it is much deeper than that, and they start with you.

I would really like to hear YOUR plan for making the marriage better, and I mean things you are actually going to do, rather than the "I'll never do that again." type of statements. The articles on this site offer some great guidance toward making a plan that protects your spouse, your love, his love, and most of all making the marriage a good one. How are you using this information?

I look forward to your answers.

God Bless,

JL

The "we" I use in my postings is more or less representative of both of us, since my BH aids in my postings. Kind of like a passenger-seat poster. But if I do make him sound like an idiot, that is not my intention. Our real-life conversations are a lot more of me listening than talking, but ultimately my H and I--"we"--tend to be in agreement about all of this stuff.

I've asked my BH what I can do to make our M better, but he really doesn't give much feedback. He says he's happy with our relationship. He's stated what the love busters I do are, so I make intentional effort not to do love busters. Heck, we can even joke when I get close to a love buster and he calls me on it beforehand.

I'm also trying to communicate better, telling him how much I appreciate how hard he works, when he looks exceptionally handsome, reminding him how amazing a husband he is--none of which are flattery but sincere words from my heart. We've talked about what makes him feel "loved"--such as words of affirmation--so I make effort to give that to him regularly. I am making more effort to do the things with him that he enjoys and surprise him with trips or treats. Just trying to be more thoughtful. I'm taking more interest in his work, in his interests, in what's on his mind. He's never felt so loved, and I really enjoy lavishing him this way.

Those are the immediate things I've worked on, but I do need to re-read the articles to get a refresher on things that Dr. Harley suggests to accompany these efforts. Any suggestions?

My perspective has certainly changed, where before I felt "entitled" to feel "appreciated" and "loved," so when my H didn't show it the way I wanted it I looked to OM to fill in that void. I cared only about myself, and that had to change. I see my H and I as one now, where fulfilling my H inevitably fulfills me. Strange how not being a self-serving, thoughtless person can make such a difference in a M. That sense of entitlement has been demolished and in its place I'm working more on showing and expressing what I want to receive so that we're both getting what we want out of the relationship.

That's just the tip of the iceberg, but I'm daily trying to gain more knowledge and try new things to protect my H and our love. I truly appreciate your time, JL, and your care to bring this out, since I'm still fumbling through this and have so much to learn.

WH,

I hope you understand that I am responding to the language and feelings your language engenders.

Here is something that is very complicated to explain especially to someone who felt entitled and was not very interested in how her H was doing. What your H will need over time, we are talking years and decades now, is to feel and have a chance to be your hero. I know, I know, we just got done talking about how you are not feeling "entitled" and "selfish" and that is a good thing. So you see a fine line here don't you. If he is to be your hero, he must be able to do things for you that you truly appreciate and honor. Not just like or want. The reason it is a fine line is that often an entilted person wants their spouse to do everything for them, and then "rewards" them with something they should have had all along.

Two terms come to mind when talking to you. One is GRACE. I believe that if you live your life in GRACE, act with GRACE, and handle people with GRACE you will be a woman that your H will be proud to say he married.

The second term I have already use...HERO. In your mind and in your H's mind he needs to be your hero. It validates him, it guides him, it motivates him, and it benefits YOU, if he starts to see himself as your HERO. Now I am not talking about a swelled headed dictator, no I am talking about a man that you respect, that does what needs to be done, that when things gets hard hangs in there, and does this while letting you know he loves you.

Are you getting the sense that I am picky about words? I believe that things can be said in many ways, but some ways are more effective and lead to better actions and reactions than others, hence my comments to you.

It is sort of like a man/woman that refers to a child of their marriage as MY CHILD, rather than our CHILD. Technically, they are correct it is that individuals child, but in reality this child is being reared, supported and love by two people.

Do you see where I am going with this? Think about it and discuss how you and your H can lead your lives and your marriage with GRACE and heroism. What would that look like to each of you?

God Bless,

JL

I can see why you are picky about words, since ultimately it's such words that will either build up my M or destroy it.

I will definitely need to think about this--what grace and heroism look like in my own individual life, and also as reflected toward my H. To me grace is having mercy when mercy is not deserved, and sadly I admit that I had grace toward everyone BUT my H. Both friends and family thought I was the most loving person, quick to forgive and help anyone at any time, even those who treated me like crap. But the reality was that I didn't show grace to the one person that mattered most--my H. Even in the little things, I didn't "put up" with his bad moods or show a sweet spirit when he didn't meet my demands. Yes--demands. I was a nit-picky nag, and yet for some reason he had the grace to love me despite those qualities. So he's had grace long in the bag, but I'm working on that.

I guess grace could start with being kind to him always. "Kindness"--it's a simple word, but it means a lot to me. Being more considerate of his feelings, making home a place he can't wait to come to from work, giving him my full attention when I'm with him, dropping my pride when we disagree, when he does have an AO letting him vent and showing empathy...I'm sure there are tons more that will come up in a day, but those are ones that come to mind.

As for the heroism part, he truly is my hero. I want all of our COM to be like him. He's humble, strong, faithful, hardworking, funny, smart, honest...and obviously a lot more forgiving than I ever gave him credit for. I truly admire him. I brag to everyone about him, but again, sadly, I'm sure I don't show him that. I don't know how to show him he's my hero without making him feel like I'm just flattering him, but I do tell him the qualities that I hope our COM learn from him.

Since the A, my H has worked on the heroism part. He tells me how good a mother I am, how good a wife I am (laughable, I know), and compliments me with sincerity that I can almost taste. It makes me want to be even better for him when I hear those affirmations.

So, in a nutshell, I think I may understand what you're getting at. Tho I'm not sure if the execution is on the right page.

WH,

I have forgotten how many children do you all have?

Let's start this discussion with something I think you should strongly consider. It is a quote that deals with maturity and immaturity.

What I worry about is telling someone who has the tendency to feel "entitled", that they need to make sure their spouse meets their needs. Do you see the issue? But if you look at that quote you will see how to do it. The things you truly NEED in your life your H should do his best to provide. The things you just want, cannot become needs or you are back in the "entitled" mindset.

You have children and if you have not already seen that quote in action you will as they get older.

Now let's talk about GRACE. It is NOT forgiving everyone. It is not tolerating everything people do. It is not being a person with no boundaries. It is a person that can handle people with the minimum of damage while maintaining their boundaries. It is a person that has standards for themself and others, and when those standards are not met, they make this known with a minimum of pain all the while expecting and working to attain those standards. It is a person that KNOWS what is important in their life, and focuses on those things. It is a person who has compassion and shows it to those needing it.

To be a woman of GRACE you have to know your boundaries. You have to develop plans/strategies to deal with any situation. You have to develop the ability to determine where forgiveness is warrented and where expectations of better behavior are required.

You said Look at this quote and tell me why you did this? Why do you think you felt it was alright to treat others that may not have deserved your GRACE with forgiveness, but the man who loved you was treated as he has been. To me your affair, you having an OC, you expecting your H to forgive you and rear another man's child are all extensions of how you have preceived your H and how you have treated him.

For him to be your HERO, he doesn't have to grow his hair or go to the weight room to look like Fabio. He doesn't have to leap tall buildings or even pull you from a burning building. What he has to have is a place in your heart and your mind where you keep the most important person in your life. I doubt that he is there yet, but you seem to be working on it.

But, to truly understand what you have put him through you need to understand how you have seen him, devalued him, demeaned him, and put him below all of your friends and family. You need to know why you felt it necessary to do that to him and why you felt it was OK.

I will tell you this. I get angry, and most angry when I am hurt/frustrated. It is a normal fight or flight reaction. I really don't think women understand what testosterone does, but it allows anger, surges of adrenilin, and with it comes strength, power, and an absence of pain. Men are built this way much more than women. When you see anger in your H, you must understand it is coming from frustration or pain most often. He can control some of it, but if the pain is too much he won't be able to control all of it. You can help. Be calm, talk to him and ask him how you can help him, and often just leave him alone until the surge of hormones passes.

I am not giving him a free pass about AO's. He needs to address these things, but to expect he will never get angry is not realistic either. Sort of like expecting little boys full of energy to sit quietly in a classroom and color neatly between the lines. You can expect it, but it is not going to happen.

Your H does need to become your hero and you need to become a woman that acts with GRACE. Please think about these things carefully.

God Bless,

JL

I had my H read these recent postings from you and we went to counseling together tonight and brought this conversation up. It was actually quite enlightening.

In answer to the question of why I put my BH waaay down the priority list, in talking through this tonight I discovered I have had a lot of resentment towards my BH. It's a long story, but early in our M he was controlling and abusive. Over time he mended his ways with the help of a counselor, but I never got over it. I resented the lack of love from early on in our M, which made it easy for me to excuse my infidelity. Certainly that logic is screwed up, I know, but that was partly why he was so quick to forgive me. We both hurt each other deeply, which my husband joked "cancel each other out" now that we've started to move forward. Neither of us wants to ever hurt each other again, and with GRACE I think we can reach that goal.

As for the testosterone, that does help me to understand him better. He definitely has a lot of it; he's always placed a lot of his identity in his toughness, so being dishonored like this is a real kick in the gut. But he's confessed to me that it's humbled him, which I've noticed as well, since he always thought he could control everyone and now he suddenly realizes he can't...and doesn't want to anymore. It's exhausting. But we both came up with a workable game plan for how I can respond to any AOs in a helpful way instead of escalating them. It pretty much reiterates what you suggest, except that he likes a "sounding board," not to be left alone. But I also don't want him to slip back into abusive patterns, so we've agreed he can contact our pastor if it gets too much.

As for the hero part, I think that will take time for me to see him differently from the man he used to be. But every day I want more of him, I need him more, I love him more, and he's seeing that change in how I act toward him. I think when our M is more fully healed he'll be that hero to me that I know he is.

WH,

So are you having a harder time forgiving him than he is forgiving you? If you act with GRACE, you will already have reached the goal WH. Seriously, it seems you two are closer to making this marriage a great one than you realize.

I hope I didn't offend your H with my posts, but what I said is what I felt to be the case given what you have said. Testosterone is good stuff, if it is used properly. And it is what drives us men to do what we normally could not do.

Do you realize how much power you have in this relationship. With power comes responsibility and you need to realize that as well. Are you also seeing that he is changing as you change? Bet on it WH.

Must go. Take care.

JL

WH,

How are you doing these days?

JL

Well, let me just say, JL, that your advice has been a godsend. NC with OM is still going well--I don't even think about the SOB--and all of my focus is on loving my BH better. The AOs are pretty much nonexistant, and my BH has been caught laughing, smiling, and joking around. (I even got it on camera to prove it!) I've been really paying attention to how I act--focusing on living with grace and loving on my BH, and he's noticed. I've been working on eliminating any love busters I do, and my BH has reciprocated, which is bringing us closer to that hero goal. The other night I felt like I was on my honeymoon again!

So, our marriage is better now than it's been in years. Sad that it took an A to get to this point, but my BH told me the other night that he has no regrets about any of this--that was shocking to hear. I think we both came to terms with what our M had become over the past few years--a series of unfulfilling dark days. Neither of us wants to ever go back to that. I'm definitely seeing how my attitude needed to change if we were going to have a healthy, thriving marriage, and BH is feeling like the head of the house again. We're in a good place.

I am still trying to prepare for if things in court don't go as hoped for, since I don't know how BH will work through that and I want to be everything he needs during that time. But he says he'll be okay with whatever happens. He just wanted to put up a good fight and "let go let God."

So...still taking it a day at a time, but definitely transitioning from wantshealing to healing.

Thanks for checking in, JL, and thanks for the helpful honesty. Some people just like to do the bashing, but it's the CONSTRUCTIVE criticism that make a difference. I think you're well beyond "just learning"...