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When did you get your MFA?
Sell a flipping book or get off your magic wagon, girl. I know I've talked to you about this before, but you should have had a salable novel BEFORE you were awarded an MFA.
I think it's GREAT that you have a grounded H, you NEED THAT.
Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience. (Oscar Wilde)
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You're bored, writer.
That's dangerous.
You had an affair with someone who shares your passion. You have a LONG marriage worth saving. You're a writer. Write your marriage; at the very least write some essays about your ordeal. Sell them. I am bored, and yes, it is dangerous. Except I have much better boundaries in place now, so I am confident that I will not resort to the same coping mechanisms that I did in the past. For one thing, I actually figured out that they don't work. In fact, they make life about a 1000 times worse. So, now I'm trying to figure out solutions that DO work and will help make my M stronger and more satisfying for both of us.
Me: BS/FWW: 48 BS/WH: 50 DS: 30, 27, 25 DD: 28 OC: 10 BH and I are raising my OC together.
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When did you get your MFA?
Sell a flipping book or get off your magic wagon, girl. I know I've talked to you about this before, but you should have had a salable novel BEFORE you were awarded an MFA. Actually, this is pretty rare. I think one or two people in my program managed to do it, but the majority did not. It's mostly a matter of how MFA programs are set up in that they encourage you to focus on short stories and learning the "craft" of writing while you are there, so you can take what you have learned and go out and do something "bigger" with it, such as a writing a novel if you're so inclined, after you graduate. Though many of my classmates seem content to stay with the short story. I have set a goal to have my novel finished by June, when my son returns home from the military academy he is attending. Right now, I am in Plan A with my novel. I'm giving it all of my attention until June, at which time, I am moving onto Plan B and sending it out into the world of agents and editors and forgetting about it so that I can write something else.
Last edited by writer1; 01/18/11 01:20 PM.
Me: BS/FWW: 48 BS/WH: 50 DS: 30, 27, 25 DD: 28 OC: 10 BH and I are raising my OC together.
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RC inventory.
15-20 hours per week meeting needs of RC, SF, Affection and Conversation.
My H is not a reader, but he will read short books and longer works on topics that he is interested in. And then we can discuss them. I KNEW he would not read Death of a Salesman, but he would watch the Dustin Hoffman (Malcovich!) version, so we did, and were able to discuss.
Stop acting like you're uncreative.
Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience. (Oscar Wilde)
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When did you get your MFA?
Sell a flipping book or get off your magic wagon, girl. I know I've talked to you about this before, but you should have had a salable novel BEFORE you were awarded an MFA. Actually, this is pretty rare. I think one or two people in my program managed to do it, but the majority did not. It's mostly a matter of how MFA programs are set up in that they encourage you to focus on short stories and learning the "craft" of writing while you are there, so you can take what you have learned and go out and do something "bigger" with it, such as a writing a novel if you're so inclined, after you graduate. Though many of my classmates seem content to stay with the short story. I have set a goal to have my novel finished by June, when my son returns home from the military academy he is attending. Right now, I am in Plan A with my novel. I'm giving it all of my attention until June, at which time, I am moving onto Plan B and sending it out into the world of agents and editors and forgetting about it so that I can write something else. How in the H do you finish graduate school in CW without FINISHING A NOVEL??? Stop making excuses for your own unfulfilled dreams, and be thankful for your H who is raising OC. Ambition my azz... You make me mad. Complain about your H's lack of ambition, and make excuses about your own.
Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience. (Oscar Wilde)
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When did you get your MFA?
Sell a flipping book or get off your magic wagon, girl. I know I've talked to you about this before, but you should have had a salable novel BEFORE you were awarded an MFA. Actually, this is pretty rare. I think one or two people in my program managed to do it, but the majority did not. It's mostly a matter of how MFA programs are set up in that they encourage you to focus on short stories and learning the "craft" of writing while you are there, so you can take what you have learned and go out and do something "bigger" with it, such as a writing a novel if you're so inclined, after you graduate. Though many of my classmates seem content to stay with the short story. I have set a goal to have my novel finished by June, when my son returns home from the military academy he is attending. Right now, I am in Plan A with my novel. I'm giving it all of my attention until June, at which time, I am moving onto Plan B and sending it out into the world of agents and editors and forgetting about it so that I can write something else. How in the H do you finish graduate school in CW without FINISHING A NOVEL??? Stop making excuses for your own unfulfilled dreams, and be thankful for your H who is raising OC. Ambition my azz... You make me mad. Complain about your H's lack of ambition, and make excuses about your own. Do you have an MFA? Have you spoken to any directors of MFA programs, or even other people who have them? I wasn't making excuses. I was simply stating the official position of my MFA program, and many other creative writing programs. Almost no one I graduated with had finished a novel upon graduation. That's true of the majority of MFA programs, mostly because writing a novel really isn't the goal these programs set for their students. That's a fact, not an excuse.
Me: BS/FWW: 48 BS/WH: 50 DS: 30, 27, 25 DD: 28 OC: 10 BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Dr. Harley does say that there are occasionally needs which fall outside of his list, and the example I have heard him offer for this is an emotional need to see Ambition in one's spouse. But I've never heard of another example, and the ten emotional needs as categories seem to be comprehenisve for most people. This is something from another thread that I've been thinking about ever since I read it and would like to explore a little more. Markos (or anyone) I'm wondering if you have anymore info on this, because I think this may be the root cause of what has been missing in my M. I think this may be an actual EN that I have that I never recognized before (because I didn't really know it existed), and one that my H is having a great deal of trouble meeting. Does anyone know where I can read more about this, since it obviously isn't in HNHN. I've heard about it mainly on the radio show. I suggest emailing Joyce Harley and asking if Dr. Harley can address it on the air. I think it may also be mentioned in some of the less-read books, like I Promise You, or Fall in Love, Stay in Love. But ambition itself isn't addressed much, just the fact that emotional needs aren't strictly limited to the list of ten.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I don't know about all MFA programs, but one of my friends was working on one back in the dark ages when I was working on my Ed. D. She wrote ALL the time, but it was toward her degree. There wouldn't have been time for her to write a novel for herself. It's like expecting a music major to produce a CD to graduate....that's not really the emphasis. It would kind of be neat for the thesis or dissertation to BE a novel....I'd do that degree! No statistics required - yay!!
And expecting writer to just live on the joy that her DH is deigning to raise a child is not his is like the people who tell me I should just thank my lucky stars that DH stayed with me and not care if we ever have SF again. MB recovery is not just spending the rest of your life thankful for your BS's mercy or patting yourself on the back because you are willing to remain in the same house as the FWS.
That would be like me telling someone to just be thankful their DH is ambitious and stop whining about how he is never there - pretty thoughtless.
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There is something of a subject gap, and a real difference in applied education. A fair amount of his education is math-based or heavily reliant on math. Ugh. Math people. Math people are so hard-set and dry... even when they are teaching science. I like science people, they have a better sense of humor. Writer, is some of this frustration, and lack of fulfilling activity related to your current financial situation? I know being broke has stunted things for FWW and I for quite a while, not to mention just being stressful and unpleasant.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Random thought; activism is a difficult call to answer if you ever expect to be in a relationship, as "the cause" will consume all of you, and you likely won't see the change within your own lifetime. This is why it is usually best left to young, unmarried people - or people who wish to never marry or have children. I don't think I'm looking for "activism" so much, but more just a general passion for life, a desire to live life to the fullest, to have varied experiences, to think about/ponder/talk about the deeper things in life. I think for me, the problem is that many of our conversations seem superficial and uninteresting, and therefore don't really fulfill the need of Conversation satisfactorily (and Conversation is one of my top 5 EN's). Maybe it's a problem with RC as well, now that I think about it. My H and I spend quite a bit of time together, but a lot of it isn't very satisfying. We kind of just do the same sort of things over and over again. RC is up there on my list of EN's as well. But I find myself backing away from it, because I'm not really very interested in WHAT we're doing when we spend time together. This may be a problem, especially if we don't actually enjoy doing many of the same things. Just like Conversation may be a problem if we don't enjoy talking about the same things, which seems to be the case. So, the question is, how do you solve the problem of meeting these EN's if the individuals involved don't have the same interests and enjoy doing and talking about entirely different things? This has been an issue in my M for a long time. It almost ended it at one point. I certainly don't want to get to that place again. But I don't feel connected to my H right now, and I want to find a way to change that. Have you both done the recreational questionnaire? I'm sure there have got to be things on there that would appeal to the both of you. My husband and I are opposite on most things. The only things we agree on are major parenting decisions (like having a SAHP) and finances (we are both savers). But, I admire my husband for his differences. That's why I married him. We go about it in a very UN-MB sort of way sometimes. Sometimes we do negotiate an activity we'd like to do, and other times we take turns picking-but that's often up for negotiation. And, I guess for me, I don't care what we do, just as long as we do it together. We just saw a movie in a genre that I don't particularly care for. But, that movie served as a catalyst for discussion on the movie, why I don't care for the genre, why my husband does, etc. I'm also wondering how much your money issues have to do with this. I would suspect it's hard to do exciting passionate things (like, lets say, travel) when you are in dire straights financially. I would suspect when you haven't had the opportunity to do anything exciting for a while because of money, the simple life can be uninteresting.
Last edited by inrecoverynow; 01/18/11 01:43 PM.
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inrecoverynow brings up a good point too. When DH and I are connected, the differences between us excite me or make me love how we compliment each other. When there are issues, those same differences can drive me up the wall. It's weird.
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When did you get your MFA?
Sell a flipping book or get off your magic wagon, girl. I know I've talked to you about this before, but you should have had a salable novel BEFORE you were awarded an MFA. Actually, this is pretty rare. I think one or two people in my program managed to do it, but the majority did not. It's mostly a matter of how MFA programs are set up in that they encourage you to focus on short stories and learning the "craft" of writing while you are there, so you can take what you have learned and go out and do something "bigger" with it, such as a writing a novel if you're so inclined, after you graduate. Though many of my classmates seem content to stay with the short story. I have set a goal to have my novel finished by June, when my son returns home from the military academy he is attending. Right now, I am in Plan A with my novel. I'm giving it all of my attention until June, at which time, I am moving onto Plan B and sending it out into the world of agents and editors and forgetting about it so that I can write something else. How in the H do you finish graduate school in CW without FINISHING A NOVEL??? Stop making excuses for your own unfulfilled dreams, and be thankful for your H who is raising OC. Ambition my azz... You make me mad. Complain about your H's lack of ambition, and make excuses about your own. Do you have an MFA? Have you spoken to any directors of MFA programs, or even other people who have them? I wasn't making excuses. I was simply stating the official position of my MFA program, and many other creative writing programs. Almost no one I graduated with had finished a novel upon graduation. That's true of the majority of MFA programs, mostly because writing a novel really isn't the goal these programs set for their students. That's a fact, not an excuse. No, I'm a sophomore and have finished three novels and an MG chapter book. I've had yearly income from my writing since 2004. Not much, but more than my expenses.
Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience. (Oscar Wilde)
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I'm also wondering, too, how you can help your husband so that he can get to a place where he can have some deep thought time?
Just speaking from my schedule, my days go roughly from 5:30 am to 8pm. After working two jobs and spending time with the kids, honestly, there isn't much left for deep, soul-searching profoundness.
Now, if my husband wanted me to have more deep thoughts than whatever comes to me while I shower, then we'd have to renegotiate our arrangements, meaning I would need to work my part time job and my husband would need to go to work full time. We'd also need to move, and we'd also need to accept a lower standard of living.
So, writer, how can you help your husband implement the changes you'd like to see? Or how can you support him?
Last edited by inrecoverynow; 01/18/11 02:04 PM.
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No, I'm a sophomore and have finished three novels and an MG chapter book. I've had yearly income from my writing since 2004. Not much, but more than my expenses. What genre do you write in?
Me: BS/FWW: 48 BS/WH: 50 DS: 30, 27, 25 DD: 28 OC: 10 BH and I are raising my OC together.
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I'm also wondering, too, how you can help your husband so that he can get to a place where he can have some deep thought time?
Just speaking from my schedule, my days go roughly from 5:30 am to 8pm. After working two jobs and spending time with the kids, honestly, there isn't much left for deep, soul-searching profoundness.
Now, if my husband wanted me to have more deep thoughts than whatever comes to me while I shower, then we'd have to renegotiate our arrangements, meaning I would need to work my part time job and my husband would need to go to work full time. We'd also need to move, and we'd also need to accept a lower standard of living.
So, writer, how can you help your husband implement the changes you'd like to see? Or how can you support him? Well, right now my H works from 6-3 and is home by around 4:14 in the afternoon, and he doesn't work weekends. So I don't really think time is a huge issue. We've had lots of conversations about passion and ambition, but whenever I ask him what he's passionate about, it pretty much boils down to "taking care of and supporting my family." Which is great. FC is very important to both of us. But it doesn't really make for very interesting conversation. I do try to ask questions about things he used to be interested in - music, poetry, motivational speaking - but it just seems like he's kind of fallen away from those things.
Me: BS/FWW: 48 BS/WH: 50 DS: 30, 27, 25 DD: 28 OC: 10 BH and I are raising my OC together.
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And yes, I do think our financial issues may be partially to blame. It is very stressful to be behind on bills and living paycheck to paycheck. But I kind of see that the lack of passion and ambition may be contributing to those problems too. My H has been with his company for over 10 years now, and he's still in the same position. He's never had more than a cost-of-living increase in his pay. He's applied for a few jobs in his company that would have constituted a promotion, but he's never gotten them.
I will fully admit that I'm not doing much right now to help with the financial situation. I feel very guilty about this. I write mostly literary fiction, so it's hard to get paid for much of my writing. That's why I have set a goal for finishing the novel. But it's not easy with a very active and demanding 2-year-old in the house. Most of my writing has to be done while watching a toddler or during her nap time, which isn't a lot of time to get things done. I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses. I would really prefer to be more productive. But it's hard.
Me: BS/FWW: 48 BS/WH: 50 DS: 30, 27, 25 DD: 28 OC: 10 BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Writer, are you a grammar hound? I know I flubber all over the place here, but I am very picky about grammar/spelling. So I am working on getting on lists of editors at Universities to read and edit dissertations and theses. You don't have to understand the stats....you just need to spot errors and disjointed writing. They usually pay by the page and it can be time-consuming, but you can do a lot of it electronically, which means no daycare.
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It's not that hard. I wrote three novels with a newborn, 1yo, and 2yo in the house.
STOP EXCUSING Y0UR OWN LACK OF AMBITION.
Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience. (Oscar Wilde)
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when did you last submit for payment?
Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience. (Oscar Wilde)
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It's not that hard. I wrote three novels with a newborn, 1yo, and 2yo in the house.
STOP EXCUSING Y0UR OWN LACK OF AMBITION. I'm still curious as to what genre you write in. I write literary fiction. It takes quite a bit of concentration and focus. Sorry, but it just does. Most of my writer friends are actually pretty impressed by how much I am able to accomplish with a baby in the house.
Me: BS/FWW: 48 BS/WH: 50 DS: 30, 27, 25 DD: 28 OC: 10 BH and I are raising my OC together.
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