writer1,

You share your day with your H don't you? You talk about the kids, what is going on in the day to day just as he does right?

I think you are missing something here. I may be wrong, but he has not insisted that you get a job. He has been willing to live on what he makes to support you and family. And what do you do with the time he affords you? Well, as you said you are a busy mother. But, you are also writing your book, he is supporting you. Is he complaining that you are working on your book? Is he telling you that you need to quit that and take that time for a part-time job?

What is he doing Writer1? As for admiration, I think you are getting it in ways you don't see but should. Hence my continual harping on your perspective. I am certain that if you get your book published, or finished he will be proud of you.

You said It is tough to connect with a man that feels he is a failure. Us guys tend to go into our shells and focus on work, when we feel threatened or like a failure. Does this seem to match his behavior? I know you want more connection because the connection was broke by the A or perhaps before when you were working your MFA. I don't know. But, I do know A's tend to break connections as do OC's. If this is true your sense that the connection needs to be restored is a valid thought on your part.

Is your book personal or emotional? If you read it to him do you think it will be uplifting for him, or do you think it will stir memories that he would rather avoid?

My last part of this is that most people aren't dumb, and that even applies to me. My bet is your H knows he is not providing well for the family and it is crushing him. You can say all you want to him, but he knows the facts. Financially, he is failing you and his family and if he "knows" that he will have a hard time opening himself up because of the pain of his failure. Most of us guys define ourselves by how well we take care of our family. I know women say we are "more" than that to them (just a paycheck) but reality is FS is very high on women's list of needs especially if there are children involved.

Writer1 if I could run your life, it would not be how you would run it, but that is true of everyone. What most of us are trying to get you to see, is that you have been blessed in many ways, and yet you know and you have articulated to us, that life is not easy right now. One of your blessing is your H. Until you truly see that you will not have the emotional connection you seek.

Just a thought, who took care of the children while you were at school getting your MFA? Wasn't it your H? Who put up the money for it? I'm thinking at least part of the cost was born by your H. Am I right? Think about this just for a second and realize he has/does support your passion for writing. I'm also betting he was very proud of you for obtaining your MFA, right?

Are you seeing what I am talking about concerning perspective?

JL

I'll start with this, since I'm quotistically challenged. Did I mention I like making up my own words?

Yes, my H was very supportive of me going back to school. He did watch the kids while I was gone for my residencies, though in all fairness, I did wait until they were all teenagers to do my MFA, so there really wasn't much involved in watching them by that time. He didn't pay for it, I took out loans, which are now in deferral because I have been out of work, but I am going to be responsible for paying them back eventually. He was very proud of me for completing the degree, in spite of the huge mess I made out of that. Ugh! He even flew all the way to Vermont for my graduation, which the OM also attended. For that, my DH should have received a medal of honor.

Yes, I think this is a big problem. And I want so much to let my H know that I appreciate so many things about him that have nothing to do with how much he earns. But I know he feels like a failure because he hasn't been able to provide for us financially. I hate that. I want to say that it doesn't matter, but it's hard to convince somebody that it doesn't matter if we end up being homeless. I don't consider myself materialistic at all in that I don't care what kind of car I drive or how big and expansive my house is, but obviously, the basic necessities are important.

It's a very character-driven story, and in some ways, I guess it is personal. It isn't autobiographical at all, but it does deal with a common "theme" that I have struggled with in life. The theme is in a very different form than it occurred in my own life, but it is the same basic theme.

Writer1,

Man I am glad I didn't say this about my W. In fact if any man said this there would be a lynch mob forming as we speak.

Does he have to read your book for you to feel supported? I know you need something in your life, but what I am drilling down on is what is it exactly? You said you needed to feel supported, but he did and does.

One thing you might want to think about is that men are often action driven, women are often words driven. Your H may feel he is supporting you by his actions, but you are expecting words. One of the side effects of A's is that the BS doubts words, oddly there own more than you might imagine. I'm not saying that your A is the problem here, I am saying that actions must match words if words are to be considered. You two seem somewhat out of synch.

Does this make sense?

JL

Writer1,

You said One thing you should never do, is tell him it doesn't matter. He knows that would be a lie. He doesn't need lies, he needs hope, perhaps encouragement, but never lies.

Having a home is important you know that, he knows that, and the family knows that. Has it occured to you that your children might think him a failure? Perhaps he thinks they think that because they cannot have what other children had growing up?

My point is one of perspective again. If you were in your H's position what would it take to help you, give you hope, and inspire you? Think of it from his position. Consider this a writing exercise where you are to write his story from his point of view. How would you write about him receiving help and hope?

Write1, what I sense, and I may be wrong, is that your loss of the emotional connection is because your H feels he is a failure and not worthy of you. Your own posts on this thread would indicate he is right. I am sure you might not have felt you were saying these things, but clearly I and others picked them up, what do you think an ultra-sensitive BS might pick up, imagine, or fear?

Are you seeing my point? I must leave but I have one more point for you to consider. What you really need is the emotional connection and you will get it when he feels safe. If you change how you view and do things, it will affect him and how he responds to you.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Yes, it makes sense. It does feel as though we are out of sync much of the time. Maybe that is at the root of many of our problems.

And, I've raised both teenagers and babies, and while teens can be more emotionally trying and are much better at pushing your buttons, babies require more day-to-day care and attention. All I meant was, by the time I started my MFA, my kids were old enough to dress and feed themselves. Some of them could even drive themselves. They were actually able to help with the housework and cooking and such while I was gone. I'm remembering here lately just how much work babies and toddlers are, and I never would have left him home alone with that, lol.

I sincerely doubt that you are a one-trick pony. Maybe a one-really-fantastic-trick pony, but certainly not just one trick all together.

Originally Posted By: SugarCaneOriginally Posted By: TawandabelleWriter, it doesn't really help your problem, I know, but God has used you in starting this thread to help me to hear some things that I have needed to hear for my own stuff. So I thank you.

NO!! It's NOT OK!!!!

PLEASE use the "Notify" key to alert the moderators when you or another member is being attacked. It is NOT "tattling". It IS keeping our forums safe for everyone!

We CAN'T read every post. We NEED your help!!

Sorry, I'll make sure to do that next time. I didn't know it was going to get so controversial. I was just looking for some more information about something that Markos had said on another thread, but it sort of got out of hand.

Thank you writer.

Controversy is OK.
Disagreement is OK.
Debate is OK,,even heated debate.

PERSONAL attacks are NOT!!

PLEASE hit your Notify key if ANYONE is being attacked personally.

Writer,

I realize I am a little late in the game. I read all this weekend but couldn't formulate a post.

I am a little shocked by the hits you are taking for your question. Something I still find confusing is that often on here, if a person is trying to fix something they feel is missing in their marriage whether it be SF or FS or the 11th EN, they are often berated for not recognizing the good they have and they are often told their needs are wrong or their feelings are selfish or shallow.

I guess this is where my confusion arises. I used to believe this same way. Needs in regard to things like money and physical attractiveness were shallow. Come to think of it, if you had complaints about domestic support or sex (and the other person was providing some of it but not to your satisfaction) then you were shallow also. I always knew things weren't right in my marriage but thought that is just the way it is and I should deal with it.

After dealing with it in entirely the wrong way, I landed here. Here in this wonderful place where I learned that needs are legitimate and that we shouldn't have to survive our marriages but actually thrive in them. I learned that my expectations were leading to resentment and that I had no boundaries with others as well and in my marriage.

For awhile this was a great relief. Then, lately, as with your thread, a person gets on here to try to find help with a need that he or she finds not being met and he or she is berated for having that need.

While I agree that 2X4's are necessary to pull some people's heads out of their nether regions, I think many people are going beyond that.

I believe you came here because something was/is missing AND you want to try to fix it before you enter into withdrawl. I believe your EP's are in place to protect you from an affair this time unless of course you sink so far into withdrawl that you just don't care. It seems that you are not anywhere near there yet but are intelligently recognizing the signs and trying to get some advice on how to avert disaster.

What shocks me even more is that some posters that are ripping on you, have recieved many not so nice posts as well deeming their needs and expectations unrealistic and selfish.

I guess what I have learned most from MB is that everyone has needs and they are valid and diverse. My job is to meet my husband's needs the way he would like me to and his job is to meet mine...our jobs are not to try to change each other so we have the same needs and value them the same.

I think you are wise to think on what is missing and how you can fix it....maybe the answer is within yourself....I don't know.

I also admire your ability to pursue your dream. I am trying to write as well....not getting too far but starting to realize that with writing there is not one universal measuring stick that I need to measure up to.

Good luck.

The very 1st EP is what?


Without THAT EP, all other EP's are useless!

Thanks, Sunnydaze, that actually helped me a lot to read your words.

Really, this is one "need" that I would like to talk myself out of, but I've been trying for years to do so, and it just doesn't work. I know what I'm talking about may not be important to a lot of people, but it is important to me. It just is, and I need to accept that and figure out a way to get that need met in my M. My M is important to me, and I want it to be as happy and fulfilling for both me and my H. That is both of our goals. I think it's time for a little Radical Honesty, indeed.

I don't know, writer. From what you and I got down to yesterday, it's almost like it's not like it's "your" need, but a frustration with him not getting one of his own needs met, and the repercussions caused by that need not being met, if that makes sense to you?

It's why my FWW pushes me; she knows what it's like when I am unhappy in my own work, she feels it, too. So she WANTS me to be happy in my work so that she can reap the benefits of my happiness.

Is that sounding on course?

I think it's a couple of different "needs" actually. It's a desire to have my H show more initiative and ambition in finding a job that will make him happy and give him a sense of fulfillment. And, then there's the need for my H to share in and read my writing and be a part of that aspect of my life.

I think Tawanda said something that might apply to me, and may be part of the problem a few pages back on this thread. It was something about realizing that her H didn't have to be "everything" to her, that it was okay to have friends and such that can meet needs that maybe your spouse cannot. I think I'm lacking in that right now. Most days, except for the 10-minute phone call from my mother, my H is the only adult I actually talk to. I feel very isolated right now. I don't have any connection to my community. I have no friends here. I had my writer's group, but I've had to give that up because I don't have a baby sitter. I've just been feeling very isolated and unconnected in general lately, and I'm not sure what I can do about it. I don't have the money to fix the baby sitter problem and I hate where I live and the kind of people I live around.

It seems there are several writers on this site. Could some of the females form an online writer's group to share and discuss?

Writer1,

I guess the good news is that I have exhausted my advice to you, so you don't have to hear from me after this. But, please reread your last post, it says more than you realize.

Please sit down with your H and be radically honest with him, but then help him devise a plan to get out of the overall situation you are in. Move to another state, find better work, whatever it takes. My guess is that he is extremely dissatisfied with himself and the situation, but doesn't know what to do. Perhaps you can help him devise a plan for getting out of this.

If your needs are as you stated, then it is very likely in the current situation he cannot/will not meet them. Perhaps changing the situation will make it more likely that he will or could.

God Bless,

JL

Hey, writer, I'm listening through the rest of the free available marriage builders radio shows from last year, and I caught a segment that covers ambition as an "extra" emotional need:

http://richwith.com/mb/radio/shows/09-2010/09-21-10/MB_091710_E.mp3

The part that mentions ambition is about 4/5 of the way through, but the material before that is quite good, in my opinion.

There's something he said I hadn't heard before and was a little surprising. He said that actually ambition is not an easy emotional need to teach people to meet! And that therefore it is usually more productive to focus on the other emotional needs.

I'm sure Dr. Harley would love to answer further questions about it on the radio show.

I apologize; I've been sitting on this for two or three weeks. It's hard when I hear something in the car on the radio from my MP3 player and think "Oh, I gotta post that!" I have to remember to look at what segment it is and then keep track of that until I get a chance to post it, and then usually something more pressing takes my attention, etc.

Joyce: My question was, I remember it now: uh, has anybody added to the list of needs?

Dr. H: Occasionally. And uh, sometimes when people add to the list they're talking about things that really could be done. I mean, uh, I don't object to somebody coming up with their own sheet and saying this is something that I - that if you were to do this it would really deposit a lot of love units for me. Uh, there are some things that I have left OFF the list, because they are just too hard to create in somebody. Uh, one notable, uh, need that I know that a lot of women have is ambition in their husband.

JH: hmmm

BH: And as a psychologist I know that that is a particularly difficult, uh, characteristic to create in somebody that's never had any ambition in life.

JH: So what do you do?

BH: Well, you - you look at the other needs.

JH: Oh. {I've got to admit, she sounds a little disappointed here! }

BH: And that's another important point of mine, and that is that you don't have to meet all of a person's needs, you just have to meet some of the most important ones because you need to deposit enough love units for the person to be in love with you, to trigger the romantic love threshold, and for that feeling of love to be - to be given to you. And, and sometimes only two emotional needs have to be met in order to trigger that - that feeling of romantic love.

JH: You then go on to say "Then learn to meet the needs that are rated the highest in a way that is fulfilling to your spouse and enjoyable for you, too ... "