Just an update...

W picked up DS early from school because he had a fever. Unfortunately, she had already taken the xanax and was pretty much a zombie by the time I got home. There was quite a pity party going on, but we didn't really get to talk until after DS went to bed.

Cliff's Notes of what she said...

W: I had a complete meltdown today, started screaming and threw the phone. It doesn't work since it hit the wall.
Me: Sorry you had such a bad day. Want to talk about it?

W: I feel like I'm being treated like a child by you and my family. I know I screwed up but still!
Me: I understand that you feel like that, but it is not our intention. We all love you and are here for you but will not support your A.

W: I don't even want to speak or see my family or yours. They'll just look at me knowing what I did and I feel humiliated as it is.
Me: No, they love you and care about you.

W: It's understandable for you to not want text/internet on my phone, but for my own DAD to give me a speech!????
Me: Well, he pays the bill on your phone so it's entirely up to him what he does. Your A affected our family. He cares enough about you and our family to get involved. That's a compliment.

**Sidenote-- I spoke to her Dad about the phone and he said he told her he wasn't sure what he was going to do, but was definitely keeping an eye out for anything suspicious and would keep track of what went on with that phone. Wow. I think that's when she had the meltdown and threw the house phone.

W: If I wanted to contact OM then I would do it and there wouldn't be anything you could do about it. So why can't I have text and internet on my phone????
Me: That hurts when you say that. I've been through hell for the last eight months by myself and for you to say that is not acceptable. I'm not going to be dragged into a fight with you about this. I asked you to not have internet/text on your phone because that is how you contacted OM and, for once, I would appreciate your doing something out of consideration for me. [She didn't have much to say after that, just nodded.]

W: Fine, then I'll just not have a phone at all! It's not like I work or anything now!
Me: If that's what you want, go ahead. Again, I'm not going to be dragged into a fight with you.

Talking to her, surprisingly, calmed her down a smidge though it was some self-control on my part not to completely blow my top. Here's what I wanted to say:

1. Who the h do you think you are being mad at me? You haven't even earned that right after all the sh*t I've been through. F YOU!!!

2. WTF are you doing on xanax in the middle of the day? Get over yourself, you caused this sh*t and are going to have to live with the fallout. AWWWW, I feel so freaking sorry for you, you stupid a$$....well you get the picture.

After a while, I said that I wanted to go over a plan for our marriage. That I wasn't going to live in a loveless marriage and that I had a plan for what we could do to get out of the mess that we're in right now.

Wanting a halfway lucid audience given the xanax, I said I would go over my thoughts tomorrow and asked if that sounded good to her. She perked up a bit and insisted on hearing it now. I said no, you look tired, go take a bath and relax. She insisted again so I went through the Basic Concepts article.

She said it made sense and was not opposed to hearing more. Well, it didn't look like it sunk in but I don't think she can really do all that much in the state that she's in. I know, a DJ, but that's how I felt. I'll take what I can get and the fact that she listened is a start.

I mentioned that I had HNHN and went over the positive things that I had gotten out of it. I asked if she would read that with me starting tomorrow night. She said yes, but I'm not too confident that she'll follow through with it. I'll take the lead on it though and see what happens.

So that's about it. A lot of drama, poor-me and anger coming out of this woman. But, on the plus side, she's opening up with me and we're having reasonable conversations given the circumstances.

I read an article where Harley mentioned that the withdrawal makes it (often) difficult for getting any positive movement from the WS. I don't know why, but it was a lightbulb going off in my head.

Knowing that there are limits to what I can accomplish during this phase is comforting--otherwise I'd get really frustrated very easily interacting with this person.

North, did you ever see The Exorcist? You know, that part where the kid, Regan, is possessed by a demon and she pukes, her head spins around on her neck, she levitates, spits, etc, while the priest is exorcising her?

Your WW is going through a similar exorcism. Don't let her hurt herself, and avoid flying phones. You'll get your wife back. Hang in there, you're doing great!

Yep, that Exorcist kid reminds me of my wife. Or...my wife reminds me of that kid. No matter.

I did the carrot pretty well after we talked and suggested that she go take a bath, relax, take a break from everything. The stick is pretty much taking care of itself.

She did go take a bath and that was the last I saw her. She's gone to bed already, didn't come out and say goodnight, nothing at all.

After realizing this, I did go in there, say goodnight, kiss on forehead, etc. so if she was trying to get the last word in or make a statement it didn't work.

Looking back to 1/13, you sure were right about this and I was in denial. I kept thinking my wife was different than the multitudes that are discussed in this forum. Without sounding too sappy, thanks, y'all, for getting me to do something.

You handled this very skillfully!! Bravo to you, Northwood. You are well on the right track. And I got a real chuckle out of what you wanted to say but didn't. Hilarious!

Northwood, I am really impressed with how you introduced the recovery program. I would keep her focused on falling in love again and become a broken record. You are doing great!

Thanks, ML for the encouragement. I remember someone posting a similar response to something their spouse said (What you said hurt and is not acceptable) and thought I'd throw that at her.

She's noticed a positive change, says she's not sure what to make of it after so many years. That's ok, though.

We did our budget, it's not in the red as much as I thought. Another wakeup call to get on track with things.

A very slightly better day today, maybe things are slooooowly looking up. She did say she didn't want to read the MB book yet, kind of wanted to take some time to settle down in her mind. She was nice about it and I didn't push...that wouldn't have gotten anywhere.

So until the withdrawal/fog is gone, I guess it's baby steps.

W went and talked to a minister that a neighbor recommended, she said she was really impressed and wanted to try that church. She asked me to go meet with him next week, said that was fine. They offer counseling services there as well, though I'm hesitant to get involved with another counselor that doesn't know what they're doing and may do more harm than good. But, the whole time that she's talking, I'm wondering if she was attracted to the pastor and would have an affair with him. This thinking had better go away after a while.

We rented a movie tonight, Dinner with the Schmucks, where the main character has a relationship issue with a girlfriend who is having, it seems, an EA with an artist or something. In the end she agrees to NC with the artist and it's happily ever after.

It was a comedy, not a "chick flick", but it also bugged me since the whole thing reminded me of my marriage.

Not a bad weekend but it seems we're all coming down with crud or a fever. Figures.

I saw this that my WW wrote on Friday...

Today was better and easier than yesterday, maybe because DS was here to keep my mind occupied. Don't feel quite as angry and bitter. But not happy yet either. I guess that will come. What does everyone keep telling me, only I can make myself happy?! Only I can control that?
Do I worry about OM, yes. I at least have my kids and family here to bother the [censored] out of me and keep my mind occupied. According to [female co-worker], he was pretty messed up yesterday. Its a hard thing to stop cold turkey...you have a deep friendship/connection/relationship with someone for several months then pull the plug and slam the door on them. It's hard to cut it off like that.

The other question I have is why do I cheat? The first time was physical and this time emotional which was probably harder but why, what is it i am looking for? why am i self sabotaging?

Should I worry about any of it, or is it just typical stuff. It does bother me that the former co-worker (1) apparently knew about the affair and (2) WW was asking about on OM on Friday.

No "journal" entries for Saturday or Sunday--kind of hard to tell if they're just there for me to read or not.

I have noticed something since the exposure that I wanted to get opinions on. During the EA, my WW was more affectionate physically--that is, a hug once or twice a day. Now, it's no physical contact at all. Normal?

What do you guys think about broaching MB again? I did on Friday but on Saturday she said she wanted to get herself straight first. Yeah, she needs help but I don't want to slip into an "easy peace" or anything like that. But, I don't want to "over confront" (if that's a word) with MB. Overthinking it?

Perhaps it's me I think she should be making every effort to recovering the marriage and focus her thoughts, time, words and deeds on you. She focused enough time on the affair without consideration for you or her family.

Most certainly state you require full investment of her time to MB , start with a call to Dr Harley. You being understanding is fine her not fully committing and thinking of the OM is not. You need to be loving as well as tough.

Has she read the book "surviving an affair" - if not you mandate this as part of the marriage recovery, fill out the emotional needs questionairs on the site. If she hesitates be firm, you can't force her however you have to ensure that allowing time for her thoughts to think of the OM and the affair is not appropriate.

Her thinking of the OM is high risk for your marriage.

It's patchy fog-babble. She's defogging and is examining her navel. Pretty typical.

I'm not concerned about her journal. I want to know who the co-worker is. That contact needs to end if it's a connection to OM.

The co-worker is a married female with kids. I've met her before, nice enough woman. They bonded more out of a dislike of their boss than anything else.

If I contact this co-worker, it would almost certainly get back to my WW who would likely then know the keylogger is there. Not sure what to do with that.

I found the address of the missing email account on our ipod. I cannot guess the password, and my efforts at "forgot your password?" failed miserably. I guess I'll bring it up tonight.

Keep her on your radar. You don't want her to remain a friend of your WW's if this co-worker is working with OM. In that case she has to go.

Yeah, will do. The co-worker lives about 45-minutes from here and it'd be highly unlikely that we would socialize.

It turns out I locked out the yahoo account after trying so many passwords. I did ask her for the password, she told me. She said it was "the" email account but that she'd made her decision: She wasn't going to talk to him, that she was here.

For where she is, I guess that's the best I can get.

Double-checked the keylogger--she, too, tried to log in to the yahoo and got the locked out message.

Got the email password and closed the account. I think my wife was actually relieved that I found out about it. She said she had kept it as a crutch, like an alcoholic would keep a hidden drink, and was glad to close that door.

W called me at work yesterday, was having a down day and was worried about when she'd have to see my mother again. My mother is keeping the kids on Wednesday while we go meet with a minister. W says she dreads facing my mother, I told her just get it over with, it'd be ok.

But, hey, at least she's calling me now.

W is obviously lovesick-she misses OM and worries about him though she hasn't told me that. Makes me want to puke, but guess it's normal. She did give me a long hug when I got home (that hasn't happend in a while) and I thought she was going to cry but then the kids burst in and life went on.

Overall, though, we're doing a little better and are actually talking a little more. We're probably at an hour/day with UA, still working on getting that number up. Since she's a SAHM now, maybe we can get a 1/2-hour in at lunch every day-that should help.

I think she's still testing the waters before diving in, but, hopefully, she'll take the plunge before too long and we can get started on our new marriage.

Have confidence, you and your wife will be OK. It is like the Cherokee story of the two wolves inside every person - the one you feed is the one who wins. For your wife if she focuses her love on you instead of the OM then your marriage will recover.

Keep on track.

Yeah, I guess we all have that "other side" in us. I keep having to remind myself that I'm only five days into this, kind of wish she'd hurry the h up

Today at lunch I went with W to pick up this old TV armoire that she wants to convert to a sewing cabinet. I thought it'd be a nice time for UA, but she was quiet nearly the whole way.

Nothing suspicious as far as broken NC, but I'm still left with that nagging feeling. I can't tell if it's broken NC or just withdrawal.

PITY-PARTY ALERT!

Of course, now I've going back to "what about me?" The last two days have been off for me. It's been so long (eight or nine months) since I've felt needed that my $LB is just going down. SF (my #1) last showed up around May of 2010.

But I'm still trying to stick to the course. I've got to work on the UA time, I know it's critical. I get kind of down, though, when it's not reciprocated or the conversation is so forced. Make sense?

This weekend we're going to a basketball game with her parents, should be a break from the routine, at least.

I've been reading this thread:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2444647&page=19

It sounds a lot like my W--wish she would read it but I won't ask, yet. Right now, I'm just getting the "I need to be right with myself and God and everything will probably fall into place" whenever I ask to do anything with the marriage.

Am I in for a FR here or is it too soon to tell? Exposure was 1/19 so I'm 8 days into it. Thoughts?

Had a talk with W this evening, really just taking inspiration from other people's threads and going with them.

She says she still feels bad for OM, that he doesn't have his family to distract him...all that stuff that I expected to hear. I said that he wasn't the victim here and I was offended when she was offended when I spoke harshly of him. She said it made sense and that she hated to talk about him because of all the trouble (pain, humiliation, etc.) that the A (she didn't say him) had caused.

I asked if she thought I was doing just fine since I went to work, functioned in society and appeared to have it all together. I asked if she had any empathy at all for what I've been going through but, somehow, managed to get through.

She said she knew it was probably pretty raw for me, but I guess I didn't really expect an answer. The underlying message that I was trying to ask was "What about me? What the h are you doing for me?" I didn't feel it the right time to ask that, but it's bubbling to the surface. Thoughts on that?

I asked if OM ever mentioned that I sent him the F-off text. She said no and didn't ask me anything about it. But I wanted to toss that out there so she'd know that I confronted him and stood up for us. Whether it hit the mark, who could say?

I asked if she had had any contact with OM, initiated by either party. She said no. I take it with a grain of salt these days, but had to ask.

Overall, talking about OM wasn't good for her. She got emotional and I guess that's why they say to limit discussion of the affair to avoid $LB withdrawal.

Changing the subject, I said that I felt that we should spend more time together and that we couldn't sit around just waiting for this marriage to improve. Borrowing someone's signature, I said that I'd read that "Don't pray to God to guide your footsteps if you're not going to move your feet"...or something like that.

At this point she asked if I had read all this stuff somewhere, but I could tell she was honestly impressed by my sudden "insight".

So after the kids went to bed we blocked out times for UA time. We both agreed on the times and both laughed that we had to schedule time for each other. There were a couple of fake groans about "Oh, great, I'm stuck with you for a half hour?" but, overall, it was a nice evening.

We agreed to a total of 12-hrs a week as she wanted to "start small" and seemed overwhelmed when I said my target was 20. Not quite a POJA but a start, I guess. But, I laughed and added that I'd weasel the time out out of her anyways. She laughed, too, and I think tonight was good timing for the scheduling of UA time. She's slooooowly improving day by day.

So, it's a start. I kind of fell into a lull there for a few days, the taker is coming out, got to get back on track and make better efforts not to LB.

I agree on that, but I could wish in one hand... She's just not "there" yet, and (I believe) only my actions will get her there. I wish I could just snap my fingers and she'd get her mind together.

In other words, the affair ended because I exposed and she realized that it, and a divorce, was too much trouble since we have two kids. No, I don't feel all warm and fuzzy about that, though she did quit her job and agree to NC. I wish she had come back all gung-ho on working on the marriage, but she didn't. But, for now, it's what I have to work with so I've got to use it.



My first attempt at getting her to MB was quashed, but only partly and not as completely as it would have been, say, a month ago. That's a good thing, I guess. But, you're right that we cannot sit here forever.

We did work out a schedule for UA time. It's not much progress, but it's something I guess. Once I get her comfortable with me, and trusting me with her feelings, I think it'll be easier to successfully broach the MB subject.

In the meantime, I'm just trying to do it covertly. But, she's made a few comments where she was pleasantly surprised that I did/said something, that it wasn't like me to do that, and wondered where I learned that. Mums the word about this forum, though.


No, she hasn't read that one and quietly put HNHN back on the shelf after I asked her to read that with me. Me asking her to read any book, with me or alone, sends her to the hills at this point. She thinks I'm being insincere, trying to change her, to manipulate her, etc. With that pre-determined notion, arguing the subject doesn't get me anywhere.

As for her thinking of OM, I totally agree but can do little about her thoughts other than try to replace him with me in her head. I hesitate to even mention the a-holes name lest I remind her of him but I just cannot push it under the rug, either.

Surprisingly, she did open up to me and admit that she thinks of him and worries about him. When I responded by using the f-word and his name in the same sentence, she clammed up and almost seemed upset that I said that about him.

I didn't let it slide and said that I had every right to feel that way about OM after what they did to me and that her appearing to defend him as a victim was absurd. She agreed with why I reacted that way, somewhat/barely empathized and we moved on to something else, but the conversation should have been handled better. Live and learn, I guess, but I'm kind of getting tired of this ridiculous fog babble.