That begs the question: why would such a person come on a marriage building website? If I don't want to alleviate my toothache, wouldn't I just stay home rather than hanging out in the dentist's waiting room spreading doom and gloom? "hey, folks, you can be like me too!! Miserable and depressed!"

This is just so bad it set me off. There are other ways to invite a person to take advantage of some (great) counseling than this.

Where do I chastise members for reccomending Harley's books??? You keep saying that but it is totally untrue. Why do you continue to lie, Melody?

Let me think back....oh was that when I asked if you were employed by the Harleys or something, is that what you are referring to? If so, I was not insuLting thier very great books, I was just wondering about your employment since you are on here 24/7. In no way at no time did I not believe in the Harley books or concepts. tHEY HAVE HELPED TENS OF THOUSANDS OF FOLKS.

THERE IS NOTHING BAD TO SAY ABOUT HARLEY'S BOOKS AND TAPES. I LOVE, SO FAR, ALL OF THEM THAT I OWN AND HAVE READ.

Do you imagine that fellow board members feel "welcome" by you when you beat them up for recommending MB resources? Why is it ok for you to beat up people for recommending Marriage Builders on Marriage Builders?

You have been here longer than me. Do you think that makes me feel "welcome" when you do that? Do you think other board members feel free to recommend these resources when you do that?

Yet you would deny that same thing to others

Melody, there is no way I would deny the books and tapes and counseling to others. They are so good, why would i ever deny people these????????

Why is it ok for you to beat up people for recommending Marriage Builders on Marriage Builders?

Had I ever done this, It would NOT be OK. I do not, however, ever do this NOR HAVE I EVER DONE THIS!.

I ask the same question.

WHHHHHAAAAAATTTTTT????

What are you trying to say here?

OYYYYYYE!!!!

DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

stop

I'd be outta here too, if someone kept hounding me to have my wife (who doesn't love me, btw) perform explicit sex acts on me in order to fall in love with me.

Sorry, JustUss, I posted before I saw your post.

Please, lets get back to helping this member with constructive advice using MarriageBuilders Concepts & Principles!

Thank you!!!!

To be quite honest I know I am in love with my wife. I truly think I'm just to the point where the one conflict in our R is causing me pain and thus I feel myself withdrawing ... worse I see myself doing the kind of BS like DJ'ing her instead of working the program.

Saying things to her like I've given up are probably just one way of making attempts to shake things up ... to do something differently because everything else, while its made my marriage a more solid marriage, still has yet to resolve comfortably the one conflict that appears to cause me the most difficulty in being married to her.

I do know I'm tired of the pain, the rejection and the lonely feeling those things bring. I'm tired of being depressed. Tired of thinking of the heaping pile of negatives in my life. Try as I can to be positive I'm wore down to the point where I'm extremely sensitive to all negative things that happen.

This weekend my wife and I spent the weekend together. We went to my son's wrestling meet on Friday (I had to work long on Thursday and had 2 hours of sleep). Saturday we cleaned the house together ... something we hadn't done in months. Saturday night we went out with friends and had a nice time... no fun afterwards as there were kids sleeping over out our place and I needed to try to catch up on sleep. Then yesterday we went clothes shopping for me before we watched our beloved Packers put it to the Bears.

Yesterday while we were shopping I needed to pick up some items from the drug store. One item in particular I know I wanted to get was protection so if we decided to have some intimacy I would need. So we're in the store and I let her know I need that item and she seems genuinely disinterested and informs me she's out of commission anyways. Sensitive me said never mind and we left the store without buying anything. Stupid as it may seem I felt hurt. Its not her fault she's out of commission but her hangups about sex seem to create a distance between us that I don't like. It makes the sex seem like its a chore for her and a task that's my problem to deal with. There just isn't that loving connection at times with it comes to the sex. It may just may be me being hyper sensitive.

Once we got home I knew I had acted hurt. So I hugged her and told her I was sorry and felt depressed because I was really looking forward to being together. She was concerned too, said she was sorry too and that we just missed it by a day. So goes the story of my life. So here I am waiting yet again.

Nearly all other parts of our marriage are better due to the help this site has provided. My wife and I are more open and honest with each other than we've ever been. If anything I still have some areas I need to keep working on that. I suspect she could too. But it's 100 times better than it was 8 years ago.

She still hugs me a lot and asks me if I'm OK a lot. She thinks of me often and tries to do Acts of Service and buy me items she knows I'll need.

She has initiated more in the last year than she ever has even though I told her that's what she'd have to do cuz I wasn't going to ask anymore. I just can't stand that there are times where I have to wait 10-12 weeks at times. I think right now its been 14 weeks. She had pneumonia and had a lot of chest pain for quite a few weeks. She's been better for about 6 weeks now.

I don't know why it feels like work having to do what it takes to create romantic love in our R. It's almost as if I feel like I have to do so much to get so little that it's not worth it. Instead of seeing it as "That's what a person does when there in love" I almost see it as if it's torture, an unfair requirement, a prerequisite to sex. I'm sure it's due to the poor return on the investment that's turned me sour on doing those things.

Hey Telly!!!! Very nice to hear from you again. It's nice to see old friends still hanging out. Ones that know the history.

I must say to everyone that I accept all feedback. To pretend there's one cut and dry method of restoring love in the marriage is probably foolish. Each couple is different and depending on the personalities and issues within the marriage the path to the restoration is going to be slightly different for everyone.

I have always respected Bubbles feedback ... she's found something that has made her marriage better and when the largest issue in the marriage is a conflict in sex I appreciate all she has to offer. And she knows I will pick and chose what I feel will work best for me even though she knows that isn't how she'd want me to go about resovling that conflict. That doesn't mean she or anyone should change what they feel they need to communicate what they feel is the best way to a better marriage.

I am told that Jennifer in particular is skilled at convincing wives that SF is a legitimate need within marriage. If your marriage is fairly good and open in other areas, then I would urge you to give the Harleys a shot at helping you overcome your LBs and helping your wife address her reluctance to be an enthusiastic sex partner.

Thanks for the feedback Hold.

Really, what if my wife's lack of need meeting stem from something other than a romantic love for me? Is Jennifer qualified to deal with areas outside of simple MB principals and concepts? You see my fear? My wife knows what it takes to have a great marriage, she knows that SF is a legitimate need for me and states she's trying. But when the rubber meets the road that's where she fails.

My wife has been to 4 different counselors. Unfortunately the last one we both saw who helped the most is no longer available. She was a trained professional in counseling and worked with my wife using the Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) procedure. This counselor helped with Mrs. A's OCD. She also did a great job of explaining the simple underpinnings of theories like MB which seemed to help albeit temporarily with the meeting of needs. This was helpful to me because my wife has always stated she doesn't need to follow a PLAN to improve our marriage. She said its common sense things and she doesn't need someone telling her what to do. Her response is a direct response to me trying to entice her into using the MB concepts. NOPE!

Please don't take offense Hold but I unlike you know that I could be with someone else. I'm sorry you don't see your worth and opportunity there. I know that someone else could probably make me very happy. But I also know that that isn't where I want to be if it means I have to split up the family. I realize 10 years is a long time to hold on to a marriage that's making me miserable and that's probably how long it will take before the kids are out on their own. It's probably a sentence I'm willing to endure for the sake of the kids. They are precious to me and my wife. Family is precious to me. I'm pretty sure you and I think a like in that respect.

MA, there is one cut and dry method of restoring the love in a marriage that I know of. I don't know of any others. Do you? My husband and I are in love so I know this program works. Those of us who have used this program are in passionate, romantic marriages. We are not despressed and lonely. So while there might be other ways to fall in love, I think you have to admit that you don't know of one. And while Bubbles wants to be helpful, her personal opinion is no substitute for the tried and true principles of Marriage Builders.

So, you are in love with your wife. The issue is that she is not in love and does not meet your emotional needs. That is why I suggested using this program. I hope you decide to use it like many of us did. It transformed our marriages.

MA, I don't believe that your wife's unwillingness to meet your needs stems from anything other than her lack of romantic love. If she were in love, she would have no problem making love to you, I suspect. Like Dr Harley says, he solves the other problems in the marriage [problem=not being in love] and the sex problem solves itself. As long as your wife tries to meet your needs out of a sense of obligation rather than from a real feeling of passionate love, she will always fail. Women need 2 things in order to be willing to have sex: an emotional attachment and the prospect of enjoyment. Once that is present, the sex problem dissolves.

I suspect if Dr Chalmers [who is a licensed psychologist, btw] gave your wife the test to measure romantic love, that she would fail the test.[and yes, they do test this - and keep testing until it is restored] That would be her starting point. And if she is not in love, Dr Chalmers would teach you both how to attain it.