She right on about that. You don't shoot your horse cuz he stepped on your foot. All the issues you had that she felt were going to be solved by having an affair, well, how did it help them?

I agree about the counsellor also. So he was sympathetic to the emotions of the affair partners? Of thier sneaky selfseeking escape into a fantasy that was accually running away from open honest commitment? The only tapering off was the decision to end it with a letter, with an apology for running away from the work of marriage. Did he accually buy that it was to painful to stop? How could he counsel like that?

Look, I know you feel responsible, but allowing any bit of the affair to continue is not helping anybody. If you have read the material from Dr H and agree with the principles, work on encorporating them into your life, and into your marriage. Thats all you can ever do, and it alone proves your love for her, and your willingness to repair what was lost. Change because the consquences of not changing are more painful than the pain you are now feeling.

Your a smart guy, you know how that works right?

As far as stopping the bleeding from this affair, listen to the MB paramedics here. Most have bled like this too friend.

SW,

Another thing for you to consider: The other reason that your WW wants to see those chats between you and OMW is so that she can discern just how much the two of you know...It's another way for her to try and maintain control of how much information you are privy to -- in other words, it could easily help her not give you the whole truth...

Mrs. W

The Pepperbands are recovered 15 years !!!!!!!!!

My wife is seeking to change the 50/50 weekly calendar agreement. She says she misses the kids terribly. If she had her way, she would move back in with the kids and I would be out because she is still saying she's too stressed around me.She's depressed and in mourning because the OM dumped her. She is also asking me what I think is best. She said she's indecisive about a new schedule. All she knows is that last week was hard being away, alone with no one to talk to and it sounds like she wants me to make the call. I just don't want to make the wrong choice and have her think I'm being manipulative. I know in Dr. H's book Surviving the Affair, it mentions the story of John, Greg , and Sue. And how John moved out of the house when Sue came back and missed the kids. This is so eerily similar. So, I'm getting the impression from this, that this is what I should do...move out. I don't want to make demands. But I have to also say that my "ego" is saying hell no. She can stay with her dad and we can work out the visitation with the kids...

No. No no no. You do NOT move out. Let her miss the kids!

Still, your WW is in withdrawal and has fallen out of love with you. Leaving the house will not help matters one bit.

You have huge leverage right now with the kids. Don't play into her plans to boot you out and stay there with them. You are a FAMILY. If she wants to be with the kids, you are part of the package.

Do NOT move out, SW! Your family is under attack - you do not leave your post! If you found out that your house was infested with termites, do you think the solution would be to throw up your hands and let them have it? "Oh well, it looks like the termites have really taken a liking to this place, so I guess I'll just move on"...NOOOOOOOOO...You'd fight termites, so why won't you fight for your family?

You said yourself that your wife is asking you to make the decision - She's asking you to LEAD, SW, so LEAD...A leader does what is best for his family - Don't you agree that what is BEST for all of you is that you should remain together? Say that...Tell her to move home if she misses the children...

It's been a long time since I've read SAA, and we've packed up tons of our books, so right now I don't have our copy of SAA handy, but I went to google books and was able to find what I think you may be referring to between Jon and Sue...First, Dr. Harley was talking about PLAN B - You are NOT in Plan B - AND Greg had not dumped Sue, whereas in your situation the OM has dumped your wife, but MOST IMPORTANTLY, Dr. Harley says "plan B was crippled by Sue's counselor who advised Sue to move home and kick Jon out" Note Dr. Harley's use of the word CRIPPLED - as in "NOT GOOD" - Note also that it was NOT Dr. Harley who advised Jon to move out. But again, I'd like to stress that Jon was supposed to be in PLAN B - You are in PLAN A, SW, correct? Anyway, is this the part of the book that you are talking about? If not, can you please provide the quote and CONTEXT of what you are reading? Because you are way off base if you think moving out of your home is in any way a part of PLAN A...That is NOT what is advised in SAA...

Are you reading our posts SW, or are you just journaling your experience here? If you do not want advice, please let us know...

Mrs. W

Wait...

you said she said "last week was hard"...

does that mean that THIS WEEK you are already out and she is at home?

As such, it might be bad time to demand much of anything with you being out this week already.

She DID ask for your thoughts so if I were you (knowing what I know now) I'd just pack my things and come home to stay and say "my thoughts are I don't care how uncomfortable you are...if you need space, I'll clear a space for you in the garage or basement but I will no longer leave my home. Both of us can stay here and work things out or not. If you choose to leave. That is your call"


However, I don't see you willing to do that TODAY so I would discourage you from having a discussion about future arrangement when you are already out of the house as it makes it too easy for her to just keep you out of the house (by filing a motion in court for exclusive use of the marital residence and indicating you are currently out of the house and should remain there until the court makes a determination). Right now...she could be setting you up for such, but I doubt it. Rock the boat and she'll get crafty. Next weekend...when you re-enter your home for YOUR week she may be in a much more amenable mood to you telling her she can stay as well (as opposed to her leaving for the week).

Again...this is NOT my recommendation. I say go home today. OM has dumped her and it's time to force working on this marriage. You should have never agreed to this 50-50 arrangement and the only thing worse than making a bad deal is sticking to a bad deal. I say get home now...bags in hand and THEN negotiate whether SHE intends to stay or not.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME!

Big mistakes fathers make that gets used against them in court.

Don't do it.

You have a WW going through withdrawl. You have a woman that is missing her kids.

When she asks you, simply tell her that this is the new reality she's chosen, but you will not accept anything less than 50/50. Go so far as to say that you think you should have primary custody since she's the one who has committed adultery and you'll use that in court if it goes that way.

Don't show weakness.

Always show the alternative path to the one of divorce. Divorce is an ugly path, but recovery means that you and her get to rebuild your marriage and have something that is great for you, her, and the kids.

Let her know things won't be as they were before, but that you must rebuild together to restore things and make them better.

I can tell you from experience that appeasement is a death sentence for your marriage.

I say that as a divorced man who appeased.

Lead, don't be led.

SW,

Your WW is going to be miserable for a while.

Even if she comes back home and you leave, she spends time with the kids, whatever...her body was producing endorphins whenever she was having contact with the OM and she literally is going through a painful withdrawal as a result of her affair.

Leaving isn't going to make her feel better. She may however try to get you to leave to keep the door open for OM = prolonged withdrawal. Don't enable this foggy type of thinking, it doesn't help her.

Just work the plans as best you can. Be patient and be there for your kids (Gosh, how could you even think of leaving them at a time like this??). It will get better.

This sickens me. I am sorry, she has NO right to see anything that OMW is writing to regarding her M or concerns over the A. And the only reason she wants to see this is because of her infatuation with OM.

Again, do NOT enable this foggy type of thinking.

And if you are going to ignore this advice, at least tell OMW that you are allowing your WW to look at what she is writing to you.

Actually...

This statement:

"My wife is seeking to change the 50/50 weekly calendar agreement. She says she misses the kids terribly"

presents a great opening for reconciliation.

Because you can tell her that you and she better at least try to recover your marriage STARTING TODAY or 50/50 for the rest of your children's adolescents is the BEST that SHE can hope for going forward.

It may not be the reality of the divorce court in your state...

BUT pointing out to her what REAL fairness would look like is certainly OK:

Real Fairness:

You don't want a divorce.
She wants a divorce and
She cheated on you.

Fairness says SHE goes, leaving you the house and kids. She leaves with her clothes, jewelry (absent the wedding ring she gives back to you) and some personal property items and a small settlement of cash (based mostly on the simple fact you'll be saving TONS of money by not litigating the issue). Child support will then simply be computed using the state child support tables.

"Visitation" is then left for you to dole out to her as you see fit since you are the only parent that truly gives a crap about the kids RIGHT NOW. Unless she's on drugs or abusive, I think you should give a PROMISE of, at least the minimum, Wednesday evenings and every other weekend and she should trust that promise and just GO.

Again...NOT that you'll get that from an entitled wayward American wife....but it's how it SHOULD happen.

Mr. W

She has accepted to be the one to move out and stay with her dad. She'll be able to see the kids once during the school week and then every other weekend or Saturday or Sunday. In our online chat tonight: She said she feels guilty leaving me with all the work at home and wants me to tell her how she could help out. She's also said she doesn't see how she could change her perspective of our marriage right now and doesn't expect me to change. She's focusing on my past weaknesses: she said she felt like an object when we had sex. Never understood until now why she was never in the mood. Always thought it was medical issues or stress. She thinks I probably can't change. I told her that one of the things I'm currently doing is making myself a better person by correcting old behaviors thatI'm not necessarily proud of. She looked at it as me refurbishing myself. She also said that she has needed the feeling of "touch"/ hugs, etc. to help ease her pain. But she never referred to this pain to be associated with the OM dumping her. I was very positive in our chat, but I made several things clear: I am remaining at home with the kids, she can not look at my chats with the OMW. If the OM told her the affair is over so he could work with his wife and marriage and she is barred from contacting him, that includes seeing anything related to the two of them, chats and all.