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Hi Mr. Alias (and Hold, and all),
I haven't been on this site in ages, but look in from time to time. I have been in a fantastic "marriage" to a wonderful woman for quite a few years now. I use quotes because it is a marriage of our own creation, with trusts and powers of attorney, not with state license. She is ten years my junior, and she is amazing, sexy, giving, hard working, and the best friend I've ever had. I only say this as a matter of catching up with my friends here, not as a point of discussion.
I had to write because my previous marriage, the one that brought me here, was a lot like yours, in a way, and probably a lot worse. Some may remember.
What I wanted to say is that your wife will never change. She is who she is, and you have to make the decision to accept her or make a move in another direction. It really ends up being that simple.
In my previous marriage, I got really twisted up about the lack of sex, her constant unlimited spending, and the awful feeling of loneliness I had when I was with her. She would be kind and loving to everyone, while ignoring me(in my view). My ex was/is very beautiful, and she gave herself to those in need. But she never saw my needs. I was the walking wallet.
I was angry every day. Just like you, I couldn't believe she didn't see what she was doing to me. All the while, she was content with the status quo.
Looking back on it, I realize that all of that anger, resentment, and snivelling over sex got me nowhere. I was spinning my wheels. Our relationship was in a stalemate. I felt like a child, even though I'm a great guy with a great career.
The divorce was the hardest, most excruciating thing I've ever gone through.
It made me stronger, though, and really opened my eyes to how much power a woman has in a marriage. This ain't the fifties anymore.
I guess I just really feel for guys like us who have been in this situation. We do the right thing, and we ask for little, but so many times we are taken for granted. It really blows.
Mr.Alias, I would put the hopes of a wild sex life on the back burner right now. You need to heal, and get back to your confident old self. I know it's hard when you are basically living a monk's life, but there are ways. I, myself, have non-MarriageBuilder-approved philosophies about what guys like you and Hold should do, but that's just me.
The point is, you have to step back and take and get to a state of mind where you can be yourself again. Your wife definitely will not submit favorably to a snivelling, whining guy who is constantly at her to get him off. I only say this because that's probably how she sees it. She does not at all understand.
Get on top of your career (I'm a software engineer, too.) Get working out on a constant basis. Lose some weight and get looking as good as you can. This is not for your wife, but for you. Also, working out does wonders for your moods.
Get out of the house more. She's got her horse thing, so you do whatever makes you happy. Get a little more assertive in your role around the house. Don't be a whining malcontent. Women hate that.
Allow yourself to enjoy looks from other women. This is not illegal, and it gives you a nice little boost. Think about them when you have "self time". And have lots of self time!! Don't worry if your wife knows or not. This is all about you.
By the middle of this summer you could be a carefree, in-shape stud with a damn good career. Your wife will notice this, for one. It's kind of a indirect Plan A.
And one other thing, never feel like things will never get better. You can have whatever you want. It may not be an easy path to get there, but it is still true.
My rotten ex-marriage is all in the past now. That was my path. And I am smashingly, uncompromisingly, ecstatically, happy now. Every day is better than the previous one. We're in love still, even after almost eight years of being together.
I hope you pick yourself up and get to work on yourself. It could be a really good summer for you! Spoken like a true renter. This "advice" sounds awful familiar and following it may help you if your goal is divorce.
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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PM, if you read the When to Call It Quits newsletters, this is very close to what Ellen was advised to do, get her ducks in a row for Plan B.
Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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PM, if you read the When to Call It Quits newsletters, this is very close to what Ellen was advised to do, get her ducks in a row for Plan B. How so?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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What I wanted to say is that your wife will never change. She is who she is, and you have to make the decision to accept her or make a move in another direction. It really ends up being that simple. EasyE, are you aware that Dr Harley turns around marriages like this all the time? Many of the men on this forum have never really used Marriage Builders, and as a result, are in the same position today as when they arrived. Some have used a little of this, a little of that, others have used non-certified Marriage Builders "coaches" [who couldn't pass certification] and because of their half measures, have availed nothing. Certainly, MB cannot force a spouse to participate against her will, but most couples that show up for the counseling or the weekend forum contain one reluctant spouse. The Harleys are often able to turn that around and motivate the reluctant spouse to participate in the marriage. The presenting problem of lack of sexual fulfillment is not a tough issue at all. People who are in love don't have a problem meeting that need. All they have to do is actually use the program. "First I fix the relationship, and nine times out of ten, sexual problems disappear, with or without unresolved childhood experiences. I spend very little time fixing sexual problems these days because most couples I counsel don't have sexual problems after they have learned to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement. " hereIn MrAlias's situation, he has never availed himself of the coaching or counseling services here so it is no surprise that he is in the same boat today as he was when he arrived. Some can use the free resources and books here to solve their marriage problems but when that doesn't work, they should rachet it up and get professional help. I know so many bad marriages that were turned around on this website that it is TRAGIC to come over here and find so many who don't even know that it really works. They have given up without ever really trying. That is very sad..
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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ML, I have asked you politely to stop flogging me on other people's threads. I don't see why you feel the need to pound on me when I am among those suggesting MrA call the Harleys. Yet you persist. I am asking you once again to please stop.
When you can see it coming, duck!
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ML, I have asked you politely to stop flogging me on other people's threads. I don't see why you feel the need to pound on me when I am among those suggesting MrA call the Harleys. Yet you persist. I am asking you once again to please stop. "Flogging" you? "Pound on" you? Where has ML done this? Her post above did not mention you. Are you sure you're not "flogging" her?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Allow yourself to enjoy looks from other women. This is not illegal, and it gives you a nice little boost. Think about them when you have "self time". And have lots of self time!! Don't worry if your wife knows or not. This is all about you. EasyE, does your name describe your approach to marital sexual morality? How dare you come to the site MarriageBuilders, which is dedicated to building affair-proof marriages, and where many betrayed spouses come in desperation for help, and tell someone to seek sexual thrills outside their marriage. And to describe this as being "a kind of indirect Plan A?" How dare you. It is true that enjoying looks from other women "is not illegal". Certainly it will give most men "a nice little boost". But if you don't know, after having been on this site since 2006, and after reading the affair stories of people whose marriages have been crushed and reading Dr Harley's advice on extraordinary precautions.... If you don't know that allowing members of the opposite sex to give you "a nice little boost' because "this is all about you" is the start of wayward mentality, and that such mentality ends in the devastation of an affair... If you don't know that your advice is tantamount to INCITEMENT to an affair, and that THIS should be illegal... Then it's time somebody told you. As a BW whose H allowed himself to enjoy the looks his future OW gave him, told himself that this was "not illegal" and decided that his affair was "all about him", and who went on to destroy the lives of me and our kids, I am horrified that you could be so cruel and downright stupid and lacking in foresight as to come here and post that. You should be ashamed. I will go out on a limb and say that your views have no place on this site. Do not come here posting such filth ever again.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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ML, I have asked you politely to stop flogging me on other people's threads. I don't see why you feel the need to pound on me when I am among those suggesting MrA call the Harleys. Yet you persist. I am asking you once again to please stop. hold, why do you consider it flogging for me to point out the truth about why so many men on this board have not recovered their marriages? I am not trying to bust your balls, but it seems to me that is important information for others to know. If I were a man who is new to this forum, I would sure wonder why there are so many men on this board who have been here for YEARS and have not recovered their marriages.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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While I know EasyE has plenty of counter-to-MB comments in his post there are plenty of points buried in his comments that ring true for me. His main point I'm taking away from his comments are ones concerning me getting myself back. This holds true because I've allowed myself to become quite depressed over my job, my health and physical conditioning and the frequency of intimacy in my marriage. He's asking that I take control of what I can. Those points are valid and I'm making efforts but it's difficult to do when I'm feeling the way I do.
I'm not interested in doing any of the things he suggests that, of course, are not MB recommended. I want my self esteem back but not at the expense of creating more damage to the marriage. No I have to either decide I want this marriage or move on. And as I've stated before I feel responsible to have my children grow up having their parents together. I've seen the ugly side of divorces and shared custody. NO THANKS.
Melody's points ring true for me. I understand that feeling of being in love and as such many of our marital problems seem to dissolve when I had that feeling. I would like that back ... but just as I am saying I'd like to try to get that back I'm afraid because I've felt enough dissapointment in the area of frequency that it's hard to stick my neck out yet again.
I am trying to move forward. I am contemplating ways I will bring up this subject to my wife. At a minimum I have to explain why I feel the need to seek further help even if its alone. I would like to do it in a way that gives her some comfort in joining.
As far as you being flogged Hold ... well I'm not sure how you feel you are somehow safeguarded from ridicule just because you ask. You've been at this site for I don't know how many years. I left for over 2 years and came back to read the same posts from you. Only now they're much worse. You've allowed yourself to become a "nothing". You feel you matter to no one and could never find someone who would appreciate you for you. That's bunk. You're a brilliant man who has a ton to offer and somewhere out there are people, not just women, who would find value in you as a person. And even if you don't believe that you should be able to find value in yourself. Co-dependency comes to mind. I believe that's the point that EasyE was trying to get across to us. I understand that point and am fortunuate enough to know I have a lot to offer and that I matter in this world.
Me: 57 Her: 54
M: 31 years
Kids(DS23, DD20, DS18)
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Look, I know what the Marriage Builders principles are, and I've been reading and participating on this forum for a long time.
My point is simply that even with counselling, even with Marriage Builders counselling, the stalemate that occurs when one spouse ignores the other's pleas for intimacy is a long, vicious one.
My suggestion was that since Mr. Alias is getting no response from his wife, (and yes, maybe she will change in a glacier-like timeframe), and he intends to stay in the marriage, he should pick himself up, take care of himself, work out, relieve himself, and get happy and confident so that maybe, just freaking maybe, his wife will respond to the happy, confident Mr. Alias.
And I disagree, there is NOTHING WRONG with enjoying the fact that a person of the opposite sex finds you attractive! If that were the case, my wife would be the worst person in the world, as she turns many heads.
Why even go out in public ever again?
Now I will admit that I stated that I have my own "hail mary" approach to quelling the desperation that arises in a sexless marriage, and that it is my opinion only. I have lived a forced celibacy, and it is an awful existence. Desperation takes hold on a daily basis.
Anyway, Mr. Alias, I hope you do hit the exercise regimen and get feeling good about yourself again. Get out of the rut of despair. It is a first step.
And sorry to cause a commotion on your thread.
E
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Oh, and one other thing Mr. Alias, The great thing about the exercise regimen is that it costs very little!
Pretty good bang for the buck!
Last edited by EasyE; 01/31/11 07:24 PM.
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Why even go out in public ever again? I usually do it to get from one place to another.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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My suggestion was that since Mr. Alias is getting no response from his wife, (and yes, maybe she will change in a glacier-like timeframe), and he intends to stay in the marriage, he should pick himself up, take care of himself, work out, relieve himself, and get happy and confident so that maybe, just freaking maybe, his wife will respond to the happy, confident Mr. Alias.
And I disagree, there is NOTHING WRONG with enjoying the fact that a person of the opposite sex finds you attractive! If that were the case, my wife would be the worst person in the world, as she turns many heads. Oh good grief; are you still telling him to masturbate? You suggested more than "enjoying the fact that a person of the opposite sex finds you attractive". Don't try to minimise what you said: Allow yourself to enjoy looks from other women. This is not illegal, and it gives you a nice little boost. Think about them when you have "self time". And have lots of self time!! Don't worry if your wife knows or not. This is all about you. To decode: "Masturbate and think about other, attractive women. Do this a lot." Eew. Don't take up this pervy suggestion, Alias. You are a much better man than that.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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My point is simply that even with counselling, even with Marriage Builders counselling, the stalemate that occurs when one spouse ignores the other's pleas for intimacy is a long, vicious one. But.......he hasn't tried Marriage Builders counseling. I think one should try that before they give up. Many can do it yourself with a couple of books and the workbook, but when that doesn't work, it is time to try a professional, IMO. If that doesn't work, I am a big advocate of Plan B, just as Dr Harley prescribes. When a spouse refuses to meet your needs, sometimes separation or even divorce is the definition of success.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Ok, well, Sugarcane...you go, girl!
The day a man who gets no sex in his life is also cajoled to not masturbate, then that's the day that man is going to totally give up.
Period.
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Happened to want to see if Ms. Writer posted lately, and then I saw your **edit**!
Good grief **edit**, do you love to take advantage of someone who is not only down, but not trying in his marriage?? From someone who has been married for 42 years, and yeah we have the 'piece of paper', **edit** and yes, I will be surprised if you have your currnet relationship in a mere two years from now! Go back and read Sugar Cane's post to you.
**edit**
Tom
Last edited by Fireproof; 01/31/11 08:23 PM. Reason: TOS personal attack
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Wait, WHAT?
Mr. Alias is NOT WORKING ON HIS MARRIAGE? I can't wait to see what he says about that.
Last edited by EasyE; 01/31/11 08:03 PM.
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Marriage is a sacrad instituion. Because YOU have failed in your marriage, and are not settling for a perverted glass 1/4 full, please do not advise this person to entertain looks to 'get a boost'. That is an insult to me, it seems to be an insult to the many people on here who are dedicated and moral, and it makes you look like the fool you are!
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Tom, or anyone, if you want to take a swipe at my morals, then take it off this thread.
Your self righteous indignation is not helping anything.
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Tom, or anyone, if you want to take a swipe at my morals, then take it off this thread. Not while you post them on this thread, Easy.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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