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... When you don't want to?

Yes, I'm really asking- after all this time.

I know all the rules, and all the methods to love my husband and be loved by him, and I know nothing is too big for God- but I am at the point of not even wanting to try to love him anymore. Yet, I hate the hopeless, depressing feeling of not loving my husband, especially when I was the wayward. What's wrong with me?

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Originally Posted by Autumn Day
... When you don't want to?

Yes, I'm really asking- after all this time.

I know all the rules, and all the methods to love my husband and be loved by him, and I know nothing is too big for God- but I am at the point of not even wanting to try to love him anymore. Yet, I hate the hopeless, depressing feeling of not loving my husband, especially when I was the wayward. What's wrong with me?

I'm not going to be much help here, because I suspect it may be the same thing that's wrong with me, but I am curious to see what answers you get.

In the meantime, maybe it'll help to at least know you're not alone.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
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DS: 30, 27, 25
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Originally Posted by Autumn Day
What's wrong with me?

Simple .... as opposed to easy .....


Your Love Bank is nearly empty.


Now what?
Try and answer THAT question.

Here is my suggestion (a very STRONG suggestion)


It begins with O&H.
Openly share your feelings without lovebusting.
Be honest about the severity of the situation.

Otherwise ... more of the same.


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Autumn .... you know I love ya ...
You know I will be honest and tough on you because I have high regard for you.

It's been too long, girl.
You seriously need to contact the coaching center and get some actual help not more forum opinions ... although, I must admit, my opinion is brilliant! kiss

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AD, I am soooooooooo glad you finally reached out here. I have been worried about you. Pep is right, your LB is beyond empty. You have an M worth saving, IMHO. Call the coaching center or get hubby on board with the on-line program so you can coach privately with Dr. H's peeps and have access to the good doc himself!


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Pep, what?

I'm supposed to tell him:

He grosses me out physically?
Almost everything he does annoys and/or angers me?
That I don't want the same future he wants, when that particular future is all he talks and dreams about?
That I feel the least amount of stress when he's gone on business trips?
That I wish he'd have an A on one of said business trips, and leave me?
That I dread when he pulls up in the driveway every. single. day.?
That I can't see any scenario under which I'll ever love him again, and I don't want to?
That the lie to the world about OC is eating me alive, and I feel like I can't breathe.
That I just want to be done?
That only handfuls of happy months at a time over the course of 27 years has worn me out, and I cannot do this another 27? (actually HE has said this to ME a few different times, and that he wants a divorce, but then the next day I smile, and he thinks everything is Ok again!!)

.....I'm supposed to tell him all that.... when he's fathering and loving so completely unconditionally our OC???????

This is so insane... OC is the only thread holding us together, because we don't want OC to have a broken home. H still tells me once in awhile that he loves OC more than he does me. He laughs that kind of laugh of disbelief and follows it up with, "who could ever believe that, but it's true, and how ironic and sad is that?!"

How can I not love the man I most admire in the world and basically saved mine and OC's life?

ps. He still refuses counseling, and I pretty much don't care anymore.



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Thank you, faithful and writer.

eta: and of course thank you to you too Pep. Be as harsh as you need to be.

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AD, we actually do have quite a few of the same problems. I don't think mine have progressed quite as far, but I fear they may if things continue on the way they have been.

I think what Dr. Harley says about women who have A's is generally true, that we are often quite emotionally checked-out by the time the A occurs, and that makes recovery much more difficult. I really was very emotionally checked-out of my M at the time of my A (and that's not just foggy thinking, it is the truth). And I'm finding it very difficult to check back in, especially when many of the conditions that led to me checking out in the first place still exist.

It's hard. I'm sorry you're going through this. My H verbally expresses interest in doing the MB program, but it's never followed up by any action at all.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
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OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Originally Posted by Autumn Day
Pep, what?

I'm supposed to tell him:

He grosses me out physically?
Almost everything he does annoys and/or angers me?
That I don't want the same future he wants, when that particular future is all he talks and dreams about?
That I feel the least amount of stress when he's gone on business trips?
That I wish he'd have an A on one of said business trips, and leave me?
That I dread when he pulls up in the driveway every. single. day.?
That I can't see any scenario under which I'll ever love him again, and I don't want to?
That the lie to the world about OC is eating me alive, and I feel like I can't breathe.
That I just want to be done?
That only handfuls of happy months at a time over the course of 27 years has worn me out, and I cannot do this another 27? (actually HE has said this to ME a few different times, and that he wants a divorce, but then the next day I smile, and he thinks everything is Ok again!!)

.....I'm supposed to tell him all that.... when he's fathering and loving so completely unconditionally our OC???????

if you love him, HOW CAN YOU NOT TELL HIM THAT? By not telling him what bothers you, you have facilitated the loss of love in your marriage. He can't FIX all those things if he doesn't know what the problem is. The solution is to use this program. USE this program Autumn Day; you have been here for 8 years and are not using the program.

Quote
This is so insane... OC is the only thread holding us together, because we don't want OC to have a broken home. H still tells me once in awhile that he loves OC more than he does me. He laughs that kind of laugh of disbelief and follows it up with, "who could ever believe that, but it's true, and how ironic and sad is that?!"

If you want to help the OC, then the best solution is to fall in love. That can't happen unless you actually use the program.

Quote
How can I not love the man I most admire in the world and basically saved mine and OC's life?

The way you can not love him is to do just as you have been doing, and that is not being honest about the things that make you unhappy. He can't change those things so your marriage hemmorhages until it is dead. The solution is to stop ignoring the problem and start working on your marriage.

One of the biggest secrets over the years on this forum is the Marriage Builders program. When you and I arrived, very few people even knew about it. I have discovered that this program really, actually DOES WORK if you work it.


Quote
ps. He still refuses counseling, and I pretty much don't care anymore.

I would try the MB online program in that case. Most "counseling" is useless so he rightfully has no use for it, but you all can do the online program, which means you do the lessons at home and have a coach who guides your lessons. You have access to Dr Harley on the private forum.

My H and I went through this when they called it the MB Weekend program and it is worth every penny.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by writer1
I think what Dr. Harley says about women who have A's is generally true, that we are often quite emotionally checked-out by the time the A occurs, and that makes recovery much more difficult.

Recovery is not 1/10th as hard as living in a bad marriage. I can't think of anything harder than having a bad marriage. A great marriage is a breeze. But the people I know - whether it was a WW or a WH - who have used this program, have passionate, romantic marriages today. While most WW's have checked out, it is no tougher for them to check back in than a WH.

Recovery doesn't take that long either. If a couple really uses this program and gets in their 25-30 hours per week, they usually do fall back in love in a few months. But, the key is to actually USE it. It really does work if you work it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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It's hard. I'm sorry you're going through this. My H verbally expresses interest in doing the MB program, but it's never followed up by any action at all.
_________________________
writer, if your H expresses interest in doing the program then do the program! You don't need money to start the program. Borrow the books for the library. Call the radio show..they will give you free books and free advice!

Print the ENQ, RCQ and LBQ from the website here. Don't wait for him to do anything. YOU be proactive!


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Originally Posted by faithful follower
Quote
It's hard. I'm sorry you're going through this. My H verbally expresses interest in doing the MB program, but it's never followed up by any action at all.
_________________________
writer, if your H expresses interest in doing the program then do the program! You don't need money to start the program. Borrow the books for the library. Call the radio show..they will give you free books and free advice!

Print the ENQ, RCQ and LBQ from the website here. Don't wait for him to do anything. YOU be proactive!

We have the books, but he hasn't really read them (a little here and there). We did fill out the ENQ awhile back, and my H later confessed that he had basically lied when he did it, putting down the answers he thought I would want to hear. Ironic, since my #1 EN at the time we filled out the questionnaire was O&H, something my H has always struggled with. He grew up in a family that was pretty much based on lies. Sometimes, I fear it may just be an ingrained part of who he is.


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O & H is a very difficult EN for a lot of people.
It can be frightening.
Especially after an infidelity.

Because being open and honest is very intimate.
O & H makes us vulnerable to our spouse.

Not being O & H is a pimple on our integrity.
But, not being O & H is at the root of a dishonest marriage.

Suck it up girls.
If you are avoiding O & H all your reasons in the world are just reasons to be dishonest.

If you are avoiding O & H, you are avoiding intimacy.

Put that in your peace pipe & smoke some salmon.





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Which brings us to POJA.

You cannot POJA mutually enthusiastic decisions without O & H.
If you are not using POJA, you are not building compatibility.
Without compatibility, you (the both of you) will be unhappy.

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Originally Posted by Autumn Day
He grosses me out physically?
"I am not physically attracted to you right now.
It's a problem we can work on together.
We both need to be honest if this is going to work."

Quote
Almost everything he does annoys and/or angers me?

"I find myself to be very judgmental about you lately.
Please, tell me if you have noticed and if it has effected you."


Quote
That I don't want the same future he wants, when that particular future is all he talks and dreams about?

"We need to sit down and discuss our future.
In particular the idea of (what he wants).
This is not a mutual goal.
We need to find a mutual goal where we both can be happy."



Quote
That I feel the least amount of stress when he's gone on business trips?

"I am stressed about our relationship. I have not been honest and open with you. I need to be if we are ever going to be happily married."


Quote
That I wish he'd have an A on one of said business trips, and leave me?

"Sometimes, I am so unhappy I wish I could run away from our problems.
But, I know that wherever I go, there I am. The problems I have brought to this marriage are festering. I need to be open and honest about my feelings."


Quote
That I dread when he pulls up in the driveway every. single. day.?

"I am ashamed to say that I have not loved or cherished you in the way that a wife should. I need help. We need help. This is serious."



Quote
That I can't see any scenario under which I'll ever love him again, and I don't want to?

"I am stuck.
I don't have the solutions to our marriage problems. Sometimes I just want to run away. I know that is wrong, so I stay and suffer. You deserve better. So do I."




Quote
That the lie to the world about OC is eating me alive, and I feel like I can't breathe.

"In the future, we need to come to a mutual agreement about how to deal with the ongoing lie to the world about OC.
Not now. We need to fortify our relationship first."


Quote
That I just want to be done?

"I am sad. I am frustrated. I am out of ideas. I must break this sick silence where I pretend I am protecting you. I must open up to you."




Quote
.....I'm supposed to tell him all that.... when he's fathering and loving so completely unconditionally our OC???????


"You are an amazing man.
You saved me.
You saved OC.
Our family is worth our best effort to make this work.
I need you to be my hero again.
I need you to get coaching with me.
Please.
Coaching is not therapy where we go over and over the past.
Coaching is behavior/action based.
You need to know, I am on the brink of wanting a divorce.
Please, be my hero again."

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Autumn Day,

Well there is good news in this...he apparently feels the same way.
Quote
That only handfuls of happy months at a time over the course of 27 years has worn me out, and I cannot do this another 27? (actually HE has said this to ME a few different times, and that he wants a divorce, but then the next day I smile, and he thinks everything is Ok again!!)
Quote
H still tells me once in awhile that he loves OC more than he does me. He laughs that kind of laugh of disbelief and follows it up with, "who could ever believe that, but it's true, and how ironic and sad is that?!"
You asked
Quote
How can I not love the man I most admire in the world and basically saved mine and OC's life?


Pep gave you the answer, your LB is empty. Hence no feelings of love.

Now I'm guessing that given your lengthy list that your actions, reactions, and decisions reflect the feelings you ennumerated. Right? So his LB is also empty.

Cool, we know what the problem is don't we?

I do have a question. If I recall correctly, you have not always felt this way about him right? What has been changing? Is it you, is it him, or is it the family dynamics?

AD, I fully agree with everyone else, seek out counseling with the Harleys. Actually, what you should recall is that they call it "coaching". The presupposes that actions will be taken to rebuild the marriage, not have you and your H contemplate your navels and THEN do something IF the muses tell you something.

I am very sorry to see you post this, but I am very glad you are finally facing it.

God Bless,

JL

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AD - I think you do have to tell him but I would be careful about how you word it.

Do you realise that the reason you feel this way about him and your marriage is because as Pep says your LB is beyond empty? Do you realise the solution for this is as always rebuilding romantic love in your marriage by meeting needs?

How would he react if you told him you were done and on the brink of requesting a divorce?


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D-Day August 2005
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AD,

That the lie to the world about OC is eating me alive, and I feel like I can't breathe.

That one really struck me, and I suspect could be the root of your discontent.

My adoptive Mother kept the secret of my OC story from me for decades.

Eventually I tracked down almost all my biological relatives, I told her about them and their life stores.

Once my adoptive Mother learned that I knew she was visibly unburdened as she sat in her chair. At that time she was in
her 80's and she related how my adoptive Father had made her keep the secret, but that it was something she always thought of.

End the lies and free yourself.

By extension, btw, I never knew what to say about my own origins I suspect this may have had something to do with the fear my adoptive parent had about being found out. We communicate more than we understand, and your silence to other people becomes a mantle of shame on the OC.

I now just tell people the full truth as we have no obligation to perpetuate other peoples lies.

God Bless.
Gamma

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Quite honestly, your H is not the manager of the Autumn Day Bank of Love. Nor are you the manager of his love bank.

Each of you is customer to the other's bank.

As the manager of your own bank, it is your responsibility to help your customer manage their account.

You need to notify them when their balance is low, when deposits have failed to bring the balance back into the black, as well as any charges or penalties to the account.

If you want the continuing patronage of your most important customer, it is up to you to manage your bank, and their account properly.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Autumn .... toe tap *ahem*

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