Fred, I have been reading up a bit on the symtoms of BPD and it is very interesting.

Thanks.

MJ, I was always very open and honest with her about everything. Her last relationship ended with the guy returning to his ex for the sake of the children so I knew this was always on her mind. I tried to convince her that it would never happen with me, but I suppose she could never be sure. In her mind once my marriage was over there should be no more contact. Unfortunately I still have children and support them. We have to have some contact and it really was minimal in my opinion.

She definately came from a family that did not speak very nicely to each other. She is always fighting with her mother over the phone. Not nice to say the least. She is very confrontational and her mother is as well.

She could see all of these problems she had, and admit to them, but she could not control herself.

She had this idea, that if she was abusive to me, I should just hold her and everything would be fine. And at times I did, and it fixed things, but it is hard when someone is hurling abuse at you for no apparent reason, and you just want to get away.

Thanks for answering Rhodie.

I'm so sad that I displayed that kind of behavior. I could have been your gf by the way you described her. Unfortunately, she's going to experience quite a bit of pain once she loses someone important to her over it.

My situation is different in that my H wasn't open an honest with me from the get go in our relationship, even before my anger finally surfaced. Regardless, I still would have had to deal with the anger issue.

I'm sorry Rhodie. I feel for both of you. I really do.

Thank you for your response. Every response helps and yours is one I can relate to. I really feel sorry that I have had to leave her, but I really had no choice. I do love her, and I wish I could have helped her, but the behaviour that she continued to display got the better of me.

Good luck.

I understand Rhodie.

I do hope she will use this time to look inside herself and make some deep and lasting changes.

I think it's important to try not to give her the impression that "she will never change", because she can if the pain is enough to get there. I'm not implying you did that at all, I'm just throwing it out there.

If everyone were perfect, we wouldn't need self help books, or counselors, or MB boards.

I know exactly what you are saying and that is why I am here on the boards. I try to have an open mind. I just wish there was some way I could help her. Unfortunately there are no winners here.

OK, so I have been reading a lot about BPD(Borderline Personality Disorder) after Fred pointed me there, and she does show a lot of these traits. But only really in our relationship. She is not scared of work and is good at her job. She has many friends and some she has been friends with for a long time and they are loyal to her. She is popular.

She admits she has a problem and is currently on antidepressants. She has been to see a few doctors and they always prescribe antidepressants.

Does anyone believe that BPD is treatable. From what I have read, it is with help. She has always begged me to help her and is appologetic after she loses it.

Sheesh, this is difficult.

What I noticed immediately about your post is that you referred to this woman as "a girl." I understand that she's much younger than you but is it possible that you, deep down, don't really see her as a potential spouse? Your ex-wife is a woman but your potential future wife is a girl? That suggests that you see her in a less legitimate light or in a less committed light. Do you really want to marry a girl? Do you really want to marry a girl who appears so severely immature and insecure? You can't fix her.

So, she's a high-functioning BPD. That's really good news.

My WstbXH is a high-functioning NPD. His mom almost certainly has Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder. They both can function just fine in almost all circumstances. They only REALLY hurt the ones they are closest to. That's how it works. NPDs & BPDs tend to get worse as they get older.

The positive side is that she SAYS she wants help. The negative side is that most psychologists are very uncomfortable treating borderlines. They don't think they can help the person with BPD.

If your SO can find someone who is willing to treat her, and she actually agrees to go through with it, perhaps she can be helped. I have read a couple of places that Dialectical Behavior Therapy has had the best results for Borderlines. It includes weekly individual therapy sessions plus weekly group therapy.

While she's working on getting herself healed, you need to stay out of the picture. She can't be a good girlfriend if she's not an emotionally healthy person.

I absolutely agree with everything Kirby said.

The problem with treatment, I've read (I have the book and can cite it, if you wish) is that the afflicted person often plays the same "mind games" with the treatment provider that they have with those closest to them.

The DBT Kirby mentioned is probably the best course of action (some say Cognitive Behavior Therapy, or CBT, may also be helpful).

I know it's just me, but I'd never date someone with personality disorders. Too much of a project to take on, IMO.

AGG

Unless one knows what to look for, how do you know?

You don't. People should educate themselves briefly on the red flags.

On this we can agree.

After what I went through, I've become a veritable "expert" on PDIs (Personality Disordered Individuals).

My recovery depends very much on not allowing myself to become ensnared by someone like this again. What made me vulnerable is what I have been (and continue) learning. That is what my recovery hinges on.

Wow. Reva, I certainly did not infer anything by referring to her as a girl. I am trying to work out how this can be wrong, but, it is just the way I would say things. "Today I met this really nice looking girl down at the supermarket." That seems normal to me, and yes, she is a woman.

Thanks for the input.

Thanks for the feedback Kirby. All useful and lots to think about.

Yes, but even then it could be very hard to spot in the beginning.

Yes.

But you need to be at the end now.

Why live, date, anything, with a nut job that does not get along with your kids?

Better off to date Rosie Palm, any one of her five daughter's, or all of the Palm family at once.

Everyone's advice is to run, and I understand that. A relationship is only as healthy as the two people in it.

However, I'll offer my insight anyway.

My husband saw my flaws, way better than me I'm sure. The way he went about pointing them out (I was just as guilty) was not the most helpful though. Not that it was like this all the time, but too many times we pretty much critized each other, held a superior attitude towards each other, and just ended up frustrated with each other.

What would have helped me was for him to be "supportive" of my future growth. It would have been helpful if he would have shared what he saw as things that was killing his love for me in a way that was loving, and not hurtful, like I describe above.

If he would have said something along the lines of "MJ, I like (insert several things) about you, but your anger towards me, and the yelling is killing my love for you, and I don't want that. How can we fix this?

I'd probably would have bent over backwards trying to fix what was killing his love for me.

I have no idea how yours and your gf's conversations went when your issues (or her issues rather) came up, but if you were always loving, than that's all you can do.

Also, I read about how to handle anger. I narrowed it down (so did they) to:

- Talking to a friend first about my anger, and figure out why I'm angry.
- If it's something that I need to bring up to a partner, tell them "I feel angry when....." and ask them to work on a solution for what's bothering you.
- If there is no resolution, leave it for awhile instead of.........
- I made the mistake of making threats, or withdrawing, when I never should have.

A pivotal point for me was when I finally learned what real forgiveness and compassion felt like. I don't think you're gf has forgiven what happened in her past. Forgiving is something that for me, finally came as a divine grace that I was FINALLY blessed with. I was able to let go of so many hurts, and finally quit blaming, and saw myself. But that didn't happen while we were still in our relationship......

Also, I read a awesome book called "How to Be an Adult in Relationships" that shows a relationship that is based on everything a healthy relationship is about. I think this book is great for everyone who wants to be in a relationship. Just because someone doesn't yell, doesn't mean they are necessarily a good partner. I highly recommend this book.

I just don't think everyone is perfect, and we could all learn a few things. We'll be learning until the day we die, hopefully.

I have listened to Christian Carter's tapes and read the books on Dating and Relationships, in which he interviews experts. Although the experts sometimes give conflicting information, one thing is common and agreed upon...you want a mature person, not one you have to "fix", not one that causes you grief. It's important to learn what a mature person looks like. This woman may have all kinds of potential, but she's not in a ready place for dating, let alone marriage...she has a lot of work to do on herself. And you are not responsible for her! SHE is responsible for getting herself there.

Hopefully the anguish of losing you and this relationship will serve as the impetus for her getting some help and working on self-healing and learning.