Yes Harm, whats up in the jolly old UK?

Hi MB Friends

All is well in the jolly old UK. Been really busy lately basically enjoying life! My assignment has been due in for my interior design course so have been busy working on that.

The grief for my father is slowly starting to surface and although I am doing ok it is a very strange feeling. I am going upto Scotland in 2 weeks to 'go see him' I am a bit apprehensive about that. The tears for my father have stopped but I feel as though they are bottled up.

Ok so update on my H. He continues to ignore Plan B and refuses to go through IM, he turns up on my doorstep demanding my attention during the day or drunk in the middle of the night. This has happened 3 or 4 times. It annoys me how he turns up on a whim wanting my attention and I said to him about the letter and he said that's why I am here to talk, I told him I could not talk now I was on my way out and he sulked and said ok well you can call me to arrange something!!! So I just stayed in Plan B.

I can only describe how I feel about the situation. I feel bored with him and
now back on my feet with boundaries in place and desiring a better marriage. His actions are way off the mark. I am continuing in my Plan B and I have little desire to ressurect this marriage, he does not seem to have changed at all.

I think we both know that this marriage is dead. I just fel to let him back into my life would be too much of a risk and so much has happened. I look back at the marriage nothing I ever did was good enough, he did not appreciate me and he still continues to treat me that way.

Not a great update but half hearted attempts from WH to meet Plan B letter ate not what I am after, that plus no signs in change of behaviour.

Hope everyone is well x

Harmony!
I really missed you around here.

Sorry you're having a rough time about your dad's passing. Let it out and grieve.

I rarely give out advice because I feel I haven't experienced enough about life yet, but I'll tell you the two things I feel strong enough to give advice about...one being what NOT to do when you you find out your spouse/SO is having an affair and the other is grieving over the death of loved one.

Harmony, you've spent so much time, grieving over the death of your marriage to fully grieve over your dad's passing. You have got to grieve over that.

When my mum passed away ten years ago I didn't just lose my mother but also my best friend. At that time I had been helping my dad take care of her(she had matasisicised breast cancer into her spine), working 35+ hours a week, taking care of a house, husband and two small children. When she died I was emotionally and physically exhausted. Both from taking care of her and the other stuff in my life. I never fully grieved. That sent me in what I now know to be a SEVEN year state of, for lack of better word, partial amnesia. I say amnesia but it was really a deep, deep depression that was undiagnosed.

What woke me up from that seven year depression was WH A #1. I went into IC(we did a few MC but WH didn't go back) and started antidepressants. After a while I started realizing there are YEARS I have trouble remembering what happened during that year, specifics I don't fully remeber. I look at pictures from five or six years ago and I think I kinda remember doing this or that but it's not a full memory.

I don't want that to happen to you Harm. Losing a parent is a very emotional time. But now ten years down the road and TWO WH affairs later I can honestly say the emotional damage from the A's is much worse than losing my mom. My mome is gone. I won't ever see her physcially again, or talk to her or hear her laugh. That's final. She's not of this world anymore. I'm not going to ever by some strange twist of fate ever run into her in a little shop while on vacation 1700 miles away from home(yes, I have met people from my hometown while on vacation far away from home!)

WH is still here physically. Right now. On this earth, walking, talking, breathing the same air I breath. He no longer lives in our home, I no longer see him or talk to him. But he is HERE. Knowing that makes it harder.

You and your WH don't have any children so you won't have any 'ties' to him if you do D him and move on with your life, meaning you won't have to see him at your children's weddings or grandchildren's b'day parties or family functions if they take place at one of the kids houses.

But you did spend so much time and emotional energy on the man.

I don't want you to lose your marriage Harmony. I beleive in fighting for what you beleive in. You beleive in marriage or you wouldn't be here at MB.

But like they preach here on the boards, "TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF FIRST". If that means grieving for the loss of a parent you loved dearly then make that your priority. Your WH can wait. Your marriage can wait. If it's meant to be, you and he, if he WANTS to be with you Harmony and loves you like he says he does, he WILL wait. He'll let you go through the process.

Unlike the TWO of you having to work on the marriage, grieving over the death of someone you loved/love has to be individually at your own pace, in your own way, in your own time.

The K�bler-Ross model, more commonly known as the stages of grief, lists the seven stages of grief one goes through. From what I understand some don't go through the stages in the exact steps, but all seven stages must be gone through or you get 'stuck' (like I did)in a stage and never fully move on in the grieving process. A lot of people use this greiving model for the 'death' of a marriage also.

If you don't know about the above, please google it and take a moment to look it over.

Sorry this is so long Harmony, but I really, really feel for you. You'll NEVER stop missing your dad (and you DON'T/WON'T want to ), and it doesn't get easier letting go, it just gets 'different'. And when you get to that feeling, that 'different' feeling you'll know you've greived long enough and you've let go and you cherish the time you had here on earth with him and you hope someday when YOU are gone that someone will cherish the time THEY spent with YOU here on this tiny beautiful planet we call earth.

All my best & prayers for you Harmony,
Mitzie

Harmony,

Glad to hear the update from you, glad that you are busy and moving forward,
I just wanted to say the you still need to give yourself some time to grieve your Dad " Good men are so hard to let go of."................Stay in Plan B and things will change for your husband or he will eventually give up.................
I think you are seeing things very clearly now, you have come such a long way from your first post.........you have grown into a very secure, confident woman.......you should be proud Harmony, it wasn't and easy road, but here you are on the other side, happy and moving forward.......

This sloppy stuff hes doing, is tough to watch, and almost impossible to respect. I agree with the wise words of the mitzie and jessieT, and I know that if his answer to conflict is going to be drink and denial, you can't even call it a marriage anymore.

You are just starting to get some response to the plan B letter then? You have said again in different ways harm, that you dooon't really want to recover this marriage. Before it was, "I don't know if he is what I want", or "I think he will just still punish me", and a lot of reasons why you are afraid. Now you are saying one of the most understated reasons, you have lost desire for it. Poor girl, can't even get him to pull his head out of the bottle long enough to even start his recovery, never mind the marriage.

I was hoping to, trying to make sure, that you were no longer responding to your own guilt from the affair, and give him a fighting chance for his marriage, but it seems he is to wrapped up in his misery to respond fairly to you.

Now that you have reformatted the Plan B letter, and given him every opportunity to get healthy, are you glad you did? Now it is up to you, having done that, whether or not you continue to pursue the marriage. You are still young, and when you are through all the grieving from both deaths, of your marriage and then your fathers, then I think you are more than able to figure out how to move on. You will allways have a love for WH either way, but this behavior makes it impossible to be healthy around him.

There is no hurry to move forward, but you certainly have a right to live your life well. Recovery is still and allways an option, but your own personal one, having done all that can be expected.


Please keep coming here and updating us, and be part of the board if you think it will help, and maybe we can help with your personal guidance out of the woods. I know the adultry was a dark place for you, and the things that led you up to it took you by surprise.

God bless you Harm, you've come a long way, and Im proud of you. Praying for your WH also.

By the way Tom please go ahead and ask your question?

Hey Harmony,

The last couple of weeks have been busy for me - my son had been here again for a place to stay for awhile, and now is back with his girlfirend. And Char I am really worried now, she has a drs. sppt. next Monday and has had a urinary infection or disorder now since Christmas and now needing further tests.

Harmony, my question to you simply is have you ever considered getting more formal education as a counselor for a career? I do not say this lightly and it is simply based on what I know of you from your posts here, but those tell me that you are an intellegent and caring person, and that you have experienced a serious life disappointment and have come back from that. I just have a gut feeling that you have a tremendous amount to offer others as a trained professional is all.

It is good to see from your most recent posts that you seem to be more relaxed and resolved in terms of defining Your life and Your goals. One thing I wish to comment on is that I hope you can incorporate into your thinking now that your H is probably an alcoholic - drinking to face you or to face any challenging situation is a sure sign - and that you may have to shift gears some to attempt to get him help for his sake. Harmony, I think his drinking is bothering you a great deal now because it prevents him from showing you the real him.

Never forget that you are a tremendous person!

Tom

By the way Harmony,

Have you ever seen the movie Random Harvest? I think you would love it.

Tom

Hey Mitzie

Good to hear from you, not posting much it has been nice to get back to normal life again. Those of you have been through pain will 'get that'.



I really appreciate your advice so please don't feel you are not experienced about life you obviously are! By the way one of your previous posts about me being 'awesome' I really do appreciate the compliment you know, about being independant and self reliant. I guess I admire people like just as much as it is just as hard to raise a family, be a stay at home mum and be married that long! I hope people take that the right way but we are both awesome just in different ways. You find it hard to be so independant and I would find it hard not to be!!!!!!!!!!


Do you know I have hardly cried since he passed away? I cried so much last year when he was ill and that coupled with the way I was being treated by BH/WH was just awful. I want to grieve but don't know how. I am going to his grave soon which is in Scotland (a flight away from where I live). It still feels a little unreal to be honest. I have had a couple of mild anxiety attacks at night in the house on my own.



I agree the affairs and the way my H treated my was way worse than the pain of losing my father at least it feels like that. I have been over to visit my step mum a few times to see how she has been doing and she said to me do you know what Harm I think it could be worse losing someone when you know they are still out there. Step Mum is doing OK but everytime I see her, it is a stark reminder my father is gone. Ofcourse that doesn't matter I still go see her, but I probably can associate her loss maybe better than my 2 older sisters.



I love my H, ofcourse I do, it runs deep. I care for him so. However, I have grown so much through this MB process. I had a previous thread running which was called 'FWW in need of help and hope' , my previous name was Hitch. I can say that now as no one checks my thread. I created a new thread incase WH checked it. It was between June and Oct when H and I were living together. I look back now and I am appalled. The way he treated me, whilst I watched my father die, was just horrendous. He punished me, right before my eyes for 9 months, stupid still I stayed there and let him do it, all because of my own guilt because of my own affair. He hit me, called me names, tormented me with other women, had affairs with 4 women possible more, threw things at me, broke my belongings, hit walls, initimidated me, went round tarnishing my name, would go out at night and not come home 3 or 4 nights a week and threatened to steal money from me. I remember one day smoking out the back door just feeling my body completely depeleted of any energy or life.

I know my behaviour during my affair was appalling and I want to acknowledge that here again that I have most definetly not forgotten that and I put him through incredible pain, but I did not deserve the amount of punishment he dished out.

One thing Pepperband said is don't measure who did what worse, I guess its tough not too.

I just can't help think I would be setting myself up for a life of misery if I were to reconcile with WH. I have gotten use to life without him, I have moved forwards from being in a place thinking I would have a nervious breakdown if we split up to knowing that it will be tough but I will and can be OK. I am still frightenend of divorce, terrified actually and am really scared about losing my home, finding a new one ect...

What is the attraction to go back to WH? He is clearly verging on an alchoholic, he has a tendency to be abusive, I have to deal with his affairs, he has to deal with mine, he treats me like a mother, his family clearly have issues, nothing I did would be good enough and on top of that he is the type he would carry an ongoing resentment for my affair.

One thing JL said to me is what does he do to sustain me? Well I can't think, I guess the only thing he can offer me is stability. I ran the house, the bills, the relationship effort, the weekend plans, the holiday ideas....

It just feels like too much of a gamble to put my life on it.

He turned up drunk AGAIN at the weekend, broke in the house, had a tantrum (I was at my sisters), there were scuffs on the wall and blood all over the sheets in the spare room (probably a drunkard fall). I came home sat morning and just thought, I have had enough, I want this to be over with and I just can't deal with it anymore. When I came into 2011 I was determined to make this a year of least possible 'bad things' and that includes putting up with toxic chite from WH.

Thanks all, I haven't been here for awhile lots to say!

Hope everyone is well!!

Hi Tom

Good to hear from you!



I do hope that Char will be OK with her tests, thinking of you.


Thank you Tom it is kind of you to say that. I guess I would like to put something back you know, I am just mindful of being vulnerable still. I have been to some counsellors here in the UK and I must say that I could not possibly do a worse job than them!! I will have a look into it, my problem would be getting too involved!!

I am much more relaxed than in previous posts and you always use to say to me lighten up Harm! I was so uptight back then everything seemed so much like life and death situations!! I guess recent events have put things into perspective. The hardest thing was dealing with the fact that I created the situation by my affair and that was very very hard to face, I sometimes wander if I fought to keep the marriage so much was because I didn't want it to fail through my own actions. I also wonder if the marriage would have succeeded if I had not had the affair and would we have been able to sort many of the issues out. My mother who is a wise old bird said that all she wanted was for someone who apprciated me and that although she liked my H, she felt he took me for granted and did not offer me the love care and support I deserved. Well maybe mum is a little biased but now I am out of the woods I can't help thinking that.

I listen to the way you post about your wife, and how much you care and love for her, and I guess that is what I truly want deep down. I just don't get that feeling from WH never have. He never grew up in a warm caring environment maybe that has had a major effect. I know he loves me but does not know how to show it, and I need that like a plant needs feeding and watering!!

Anyway, thanks for the last line Tom, I feel better about myself these days. I still sit here and wander how did it all go so horribly wrong?!! Teh thing is, I feel better inside than I have for years, more confident, more peaceful, happier, brighter, more adventurous, more positive!! All those issues such as fertility, divorce, marriage woes all seem a little bit more manageable.

God I am waffling today!!

Harmony.

I am starting to feel terrible that my H has made attempts at meeting up to discuss reconciliation, I am not that interested.

Even though they were pathetic attempts they were attempts.

He said that I had not been in touch to discuss meeting up, even though he had Plan B letter. That he was expecting to hear from me to arrange a meet up.

What has happened to me? I feel like I need to keep ploughing on away from WH. Not to look back. That too much bad stuff has happened, that he will never be able to meet my ENs.

SWAG: the consequences of a crappy Plan B?

(SWAG= Scientific Wild A$$ Guess)

Also; some people may not be able to forgive, depending on how much there is to forgive.

You will, at a minimum, at least owe an honest answer; there isn't any chances left.

Your Love Bank is empty, and don't beat yourself up, he has not done what you asked or what is nessesary for recovery yet.

He is still drinking? Let your IMs know that thats not acceptable.

He just shows up unanounced? Same thing.

HAs he done anything to show you he has self-respect that doesn't come from you propping him up?

Give him the expectations, which are realistic BTW, that you will need to talk to him, besides that, you can't do much exept ignore him till this changes, and he is willing to do some heavy lifting.

God Bless Harm.

The break in Plan B, coupled with the 4 affairs my WH had, hitting me, throwing things at me, intimidating me, verbal abuse and alchoholism is probably more like it. All of these happened prior to Plan B.

I think I have simply woken up and smelt the coffee.

It makes me feel sad, and I know that Plan D is the only way forward.

Harmony, DrH discussed this on his radio show. He said that a lot of times, when a BW enters Plan B, she starts to look at her marriage and her WH differently. Sometimes she sees him for who he really is. She starts to reevaluate WHO she THOUGHT WH was.

There may have been too much harm done to your marriage to save it. That's a choice that you will make on your own.

The way I look at it, even in my case, the marriage I had is dead(thank God). I have a possibility of having a NEW marriage, be that with my WH or not. I now KNOW what it would take for someone to be married to me. My WH doesn't hold a candle to that man, doesn't mean he never will, just that he doesn't. I am walking MY path, if he wants to join me, he'll need to catch up.

Hmmm...

So, it makes you feel sad to know that you deserve a happy, loving, supportive marriage, instead of a diseased and abusive marriage?

I try... I REALLY try to be a forgiving person, but I see no reason to abuse and intimidate the person that you are supposed to love, honor, cherish, and protect - and then adding adultery on top of that?

Harm... I hope whatever happens for you, that it sets your spirit free.

Thanks Scotland. I think you have summed it up well...



I have started to look at things differently. I still care for him, but it has mostly been a one way street in our relationship. Yes I messed up with my A, and I will always regret that. I will live with that shame forever and not sure how I will handle that when I meet someone else.

I think I could probably forgive his affairs/behaviour since he found out about my affair. However I cannot CHANGE him as a person. I have seen no evidence of change, just continual immature, disrespectful, entitled behaviour.

Hello.

Hey mitzie...I am almost laughing now, no not at your name or you to Harm's situation, but that, as I may have mentioned, we do have a cat named Mitize, and she is the sweetest cat and she is sitting on the dining room table here as I type.

By the way, further t/j, I respect the Steelers and the Packers for what they presented in the Super Bowl in terms of class from both teams. Obviously I feel elated that Green Bay won, but the Steeler are simply class! And, compared to Christina Aguilara, both of those teams have leared to be much more focused under pressure!..*s*


Harm,hi.oopps to tbc.phone.

Tom

Hi Harm, and am sorry - had my son staying here the last week and now he is excited about a new job and also needing to call Char so has been busy, and had to take some calls but I apologize.

Ms. Harm, all I can say is that you sort of get me to image you as a Greer Garson - this comes from me watching that movie Randon Harvest with her and Ronald Coleman last weekend, and who is his right mind today watches a romance with Garson and Coleman from the 40's. Well I did. And sweeti I honestly did get misty eyed. Not the first time - I did see this film for my first time in like 1985 or so when I was home alone with our very young kids and she was hospitalized again. I can't remember that day very well except that it was in the winter, like Jan. or Feb. and the snow and cold, and I felt alone, but after seeing that film on local TV for the first time at that time God I felt guilty for not doing as much for her as I could and I felt privileged too for being married to her. Greer Garson is/was a redhead, so is Char, they both have the same enchanting looks, both have slim bodies, and oh yea I fell in love with Greer Garson - than after the movie realized I love my wife more than anything or anyone. Sometimes it takes even a film experience like that to wake you to reality.

Ms. Harm, please don't feel guilty about the affiar on your part. Ya know what, Char and I have had some pretty big hard knocks too - one of those is her putting up with my alcoholism, which she did. My only adivice to you is to break your Plan B at this time and to meet with your H at a neutral site of your choice. The thing I hear you sighing about is not having kids - i.e., a family by this time. The vast majority of couples expect that from a marriage. That is partly why I advise you to have a sitdown with him at this time. I honestly do not think that the Plan B now is doing either of you any good for the long-term, as opposed to an honest confrontation to resolve where you both want to be five years from now.

I appreciate your hesitancy at this time in even considering studying to be a counseling professional. I just still think tho you have so much to offer to many.

See ya,

Tom

Does anyone know how Harmony2010 is doing?