Agreed on the part the overall informing of what ENs need to be met has long been established.

Where I struggle is having to continually ask for/push for those needs to be met. I did it for so many years and I tried it in so many various ways that lately I just don't even try. My god I'd hate to even list all of the different ways I tried to approach my wife about my complaints/concerns that my needs weren't/aren't being met.

Lately it seems there is an apparent acknowledgement from her that she knows what's expected. And she's showing a genuine concern when those expectations aren't going to be met. For me that's a pretty big thing. Up until this point most times she just tries to ignore the situation or at least tries to avoid the conversation. One can ponder the reasons behind that.

As you've stated EasyE I am no longer filing my complaints to her. She knows frequency/consistency is key. We are getting back to doing the little things that make us feel attached. A gentle hand or touch here or there, a flirtatious pinch (she does this to me mostly), kinds words of affirmation, being pleasant and attentive around each other.

This is it for me though. If I go down this path of doing what a good H should do like I've done many times in the past and nothing changes for me I will have no choice but to push for something more for us. We will have to get some help if our M is to survive.

Meanwhile I'm going to do everything I can to create the romantic love we had not that many months ago. I'm hoping this latest withdrawal stage I went through scared her enough. I know it scared and depressed me. I've certainly explained my feelings of not caring anymore to her and how much it scared me. I told her during that time that I didn't think we were going to make it.

I don't think the Mrs. rolls her eyes. It isn't that she doesn't believe I deserve these things. Does she think of it as a chore? I don't know. Its not a need for her so I would expect she does. To some extent don't we all have those days when we're not at our best that keeping the love alive can be chore-like?

I'm so happy to hear this! Years ago when I got here it gave me so much hope for my own life, reading about what you two had then together. I can imagine how cool it must be for your kids, growing up seeing how two folks love and respect and are thoughtful and caring to each other.

That is great news! What is your plan? There is a very specific way to achieve this. If she is willing, do you have a plan to achieve this?

I'm sorry Melody. I'm sure my plan isn't what you're hoping for.

Unfortunately at this juncture I'd have to state my wife isn't interested in a plan. At least not a plan that's being thrust upon her. I tried approaching her with the idea of recreating that romantic love. She said she was fine and thought the only issue was my depression (work and physical health related). I did communicate that the lack of my needs being met were a big part of the depression and withdrawal. I mentioned getting help but she was silent.

My plan is to do what I can to create that romantic, connected love we had and see where it takes us. If it takes us back to where we were before then I feel I'll have ammunition/justification to say we need to take this one step further and get some professional help.

BTW I feel good about the plan. It gives me hope that we'll either make it on our own or we'll get help that will help us make it. It's giving me some motivation and lifting the horrible feeling I've had for over a year now.

That sounds awesome!

MrA, were you and your W the couple who would fall asleep in each other's arms? I think it was you two, you're not starting from scratch, you guys have a huge head start.

I don't remember, do you two do Date Nights? Can you leave the kids home without a sitter, or do you have a sitter?

We can no longer fall asleep in each other's arms. I have sleep apnea and need to "gear" up before I go to sleep. It really plays havoc on spooning/snuggling.

We hold hands once in awhile now.

Our son is our sitter and yes we do do date nights. We've gone out with friends severals times in the last couple of months. We also leave the kids at home at times and do some shopping together, etc.

With this new project at work we spend less time together but with our kid's activities and our date nights we have to average more than 15 hours together each week.

I think thats a great plan. That is what Dr Harley calls "priming the pump" when you have one spouse who is not fully on board. You do what you are doing, priming the pump, so to speak and then taking it to a new level when her interest is piqued. Did you see the "Saved by One Spouse" series of articles? There might be some ideas in there: Saved By One Spouse?

MrA, I wonder, though, how many folks never experience that, you know, how many wonderful memories you have. And how cool your 13 year old can be the sitter! My DD started doing that at that age, too, they had/have fun with it. They could watch kid movies at night on the big TV LOL.

Wow. It's been over 20 months since I posted this. It's surreal going back to read the things I've posted in the past.

I find myself in worse shape than ever before.

I'm stuck, trapped by my own choices. I've grown extremely apathetic about my marriage.

The plan didn't work. The suggestion to try something fell on deaf ears. I continued to try a little to create something despite not getting the professional help we needed but soon found things with her that really started to bother me. I won't list them, just say they were enough to turn me off.

I slowly became less and less interested in her and our marriage and today I find myself totally disinterested in her. We're roommates. Maybe even less than roommates.

I'm staying because I don't want to break up the family nor experience the cost of a divorce at this juncture. I try to be cordial but there is no passion and very little interaction. I'm to the point where I'm the one ensuring it stays that way. Losing all expectation has proven less painful.

My focus has been on the kids as has hers I suppose. They're wonderful. I couldn't imagine shaking up their world.

I'm not sure why I'm even posting. I guess I don't like being stuck and I don't like knowing times wasting away for an opportunity to love someone (maybe not her) and have someone love me back in a way that makes me happy.

Tell us what you have done to recover your marriage, Mr. A. Tell us what you did.

Hi MrAlias, I joined this site earlier this year, after you started this thread, and just now read it. The only advice I have for you is to tell you that I was in a similar situation as you, and I'm now divorced. I reached the state of Withdrawal and stayed there for several years because I didn't want to break up the family. When my kids were old enough to be on their own, I left. In hindsight, now that I found this website, I could've done things differently by trying, as MelodyLane wrote many times earlier in this thread, to restore romantic love to the marriage.

What is incredibly difficult is trying to work on your marriage while you're in the state of withdrawal.

I was in withdrawal for way too long, and I know how you feel: very depressed, almost paralyzed to do anything about your situation.

You need to get out of the state of Withdrawal. Others on this site may be able to help, or you can try professional counseling. If your wife won't agree to phone counseling with the Harley's, at least you can; start with you.

If you continue in the state of Withdrawal, you will either stay unhappy for the rest of your life or you or your wife will have an affair and your marriage will probably end. Sorry to paint such a bleak picture, but you really do need to get out of that state. Until you do, you will be unable to meet your wife's emotional needs; and even if she was trying to meet yours, it wouldn't work because your Love Bank is closed for business.

If I had the energy to I would. I've been coming to this site on and off for a number of years and have done my darndest to implement anything and everything short of the counseling offered by the Harleys. We've been to marriage counseling, individual counseling, her and I did the questionaire years ago, I've read a few books namely The 5 Love Languages; to name a few. She's not interested in others telling her what she should do. She wants to do it her way ... but with her way there is no plan. You just co-exist and be happy with what you got.

I'm numb to her.

That is naming one.

Have you read any books by Dr Harley? This site, Marriage Builders, is for help and advice in using his materials ater all.

Keep,

I, like you, plan to wait for the kids to move on and then I'll make a decision. Right now I'm staying for financial reasons and I hope to minimize the kids pain.

I am totally paralyzed. I don't have enough feelings for her to really even care. And it appears she's feeling the same way as she is also not interacting much with me. We just communicate on the necessities.

I am done trying to rectify. I've always been the one over the last gee I don't know 10 to 12 years that has tried. I've spent countless hours asking, receiving and giving advice on this site. I've taken self improvement seminars. I good friend who is a Life Coach gave me coaching for a good stretch there. As I said earlier I've done individual and marriage counseling. That's the one thing she's done, counseling... but most of what she worked on was her post partum (now gone), her OCB (lessened) and her anxieties/phobias(nearly gone). Which was important but now when it's important to us she doesn't want to do anything I suggest and she offers nothing as an alternative.

So as you may be able to see I have NO interest in starting up again. She wants to fix it she can take the initiative. I'm cruising until the kids are grown. That's about 8 more years give or take.

I'm focusing on other areas of my life. Trying to get back into shape (lifelong struggle). I need to drop about 30 pounds but mostly I'm working out just to feel in shape. I've got a lot of physical ailments that make life painful at times.

I'm focused on the kids. Making sure I'm teaching them good life lessons (my marriage is the exception), helping them to grow.

I'm sure I'm open to someone else's attention. Fortunately there aren't any opportunities that have surfaced and I certainly am not seeking something like that.

Anyways the short of it is I'm just putting in my time unless she asks me to do something about it. My Bank is closed and my heart won't let my head try to open it again.

No. After reading a couple of the love languages books, reading everything on this site several times over and having received advice from this forum for over 10 years I doubt there is anything in those books that I am not already aware of.

Can our marriage be saved using the MB techniques? Heck yeah. Especially if we were to participate in counseling with the Harleys.

Will it? I doubt it. Especially now that I'm deep in withdrawal and have no interest in trying to make it work. I certainly have no interest in dropping hundreds of dollars to have a counselor tell me try what I already know and have tried. Some would say they'd be able to help my wife participate. Nope. I've been over that with her and she'll tell you "I'm not interested. There's bound to be something we can do ourselves that doesn't cost anything." Great what's the plan. Crickets. Shrugs. Grrrrr.

I'm not interested in spending another dime on this marriage unless she's the catalyst.

I'm staying for reasons other than love.

I would try Marriage Builders, MrA. You have never used Marriage Builders in all these years. Filling out a questionaire and posting on a chat forum will not help your marriage. You have to actually do the work.

However, when someone has the same problem after 10 years, they are not really looking for solutions.

The counseling services are FOR reluctant spouses. As Harley says, most couples that come to him for help have a reluctant spouse. He turns that around.

Five Love Languages will not help your marriage. It is a marriage program that was largely taken from Marriage Builders ["love tank"] that only focuses on communication at the expense of creating love. Communication is not the problem in your marriage, it is that you have fallen out of love.

When your own methods don't work, it is time to step it up and actually use the program. But I don't believe you are serious about finding solutions.

You haven't tried Marriage Builders. But if you had been really looking for solutions, I suspect you would have.

MrAlias, it�s painful to read what you write:

I was there too, exactly where you are today. It�s heartbreaking to read that someone is suffering what I know from experience is so numbing and painful at the same time.

Rhetorical question: Do you really want to live like you are now for 8 more years? If you�re like me, and it sounds like you are, divorce is not an option right now because of the kids. You can try to find happiness on your own, like I did while waiting for the kids to grow up, but I�ll tell you, if I had known about Marriage Builders resources back then, I think it might�ve worked. It�s the one program I�ve seen that makes a lot of sense.

The key for you right now is to get out of Withdrawal. I applaud your attempt to get back into shape. Aerobic exercise is a great way to improve your outlook on life. Keep at it. Make sure you find something you enjoy doing because that�s what will keep you motivated. If it feels like a chore, you�ll probably quit, especially being in the state of Withdrawal where you tend not to care much about anything.

You write in another post:

It sounds as if you haven�t tried what the Harleys can offer. A lot of other posters on your thread have encouraged you to call them. Doesn�t it pique your interest? It�s possible the Harleys can offer you a new approach, something you haven�t tried. Why not give it a shot? One phone counseling session won�t set you back that much, and then you can decide whether or not to continue. If your marriage eventually ends, how will you feel knowing that you didn�t try something that might�ve helped?

Give it a try. You don�t have much to lose, and you potentially have much to gain.