Add to that Princess and Susie's too.

I Know what is happening in your head. Your basing all love on pity, and you think if you pity him your protecting him. Its all your fault somehow, you should be strong enough, you can fix it. Forget that, its not all up to you. You can only help yourself act right, what you are doing is being an enabler to his escape tactics, just like he might have enabled you to your drinking since you started, even if what he did was cause it to appear, it is your problem now. Do not allow this to happen to you, and to let it enable his addiction of escape either.

You both are pinging off of each other in a enabling fantasy that you can't help it.

"Oh those people on the MB forum don't know him like I do, he just needs more time, my love is strong enough"

I , We, aren't, asking you to understand why this is going on in your head, but we know it is, well at least I do. Save the phycobable until you plug the dam.

Your sacrifice will never be enough to make him love you, respect for yourself will give him the choice to, if he has the character. You must trust us, there is a high chance he is still in contact, and a strong possibility he will renew contact at a later date.

You are setting yourself up for a pity-party, where did we go wrong, we just can't help ourselves, excuse giving and accepting, unstable relationship if you do not fight. Can you see thats what he needs? A wife willing to fight for her rights and at the same time protect his if nessesary. He will respect you only if you respect yourself. Lets us make your Kung-Foo strong. It is what you need more than Him, BTW. Unless you have yourself, a strong person that does not need him unless he can prove himself trustworthy and loyal, to someone he respects and admires, the marriage will never be healthy. You must fight, leave fighting fair to when he does also in the hopeful future.

For now stand for what marriage is supposed to be, and trust that instead of believing he has some right to have an affair. Trust me I have been there, right where he is almost, when I left my wife because she drank. The only differeance is I told her I was leaving and not coming back and I meant it, and I did not get involved with another women untill six months gone. If you want to know what was going on in my head then, ask me.

Just to be clear, my wife allready had a drinking problem before we got married, and I did not have an affair that agravated one. I did though not force her to go to AA as a requirment to recover, and she eventually relapsed because she did not explore what she needed to help herself. I strongly recommend you go to AA, and not base your sobriety on the marriage recovery, it will drive him away and he will lose respect for you and your marriage. I strongly ALSO suspect he does not want to take responsibility for your sobriety by being married to you, and sees it as a weakness that will not only sap his confidance in the relationship, but he wont be able to trust someone who wont take care of themselves. Go to AA because of YOU, because you know your worth it. Don't just enter dry drunk status to get him back. Its not fair to you or him.

Please don't Balk on this, do what we ask. We really do know where your at and care for you. Don't think about it, do it. You can't trust your feelings, or your WH either.

Like I said before, we understand, but unless you are something attractive to him, and yes, that someone he does not have in his pocket anymore, you will not get his respect or put you back on the pedestal. Isn't that that you want, to be treasured?

Take charge, do the work laid out, and trust us. Take a breath, put on your big girl panties, and do it. We know you can.

Hi, I did read your other post. You are right, he is not serious right now. He is the kind of person who needs to decide on his own, not be pushed into or persuaeded into something.
No, he will not give me the password. He does not want me reading the past emails for fear that i will be hurt even more. After he said that, it made me wonder just exactly what he said to her. Jeez.
I really dont want to read them. Honestly, i have been through enough already.
thank you

nope, that's just an excuse..he doesn't want you to see that they are still in contact.

secondly, the part about him not being the "kind" that needs to decide on his own...again, you are wrong. He is like any other wayward who will stay foggy and continue to cake eat until you expose and bust up this A.

Don't get overwhelmed OK? Read what everyone has said a few times, and follow what Mel has asked.

As they say in AA, "Your best thinking has gotten you here". So how about trusting and accepting our help?

You can do this and we are behind you.

I would even say that the email account needs to go. Those emails will be a way for your WH to have continued "contact" even if you are going to believe that he doesn't contact her right now. Why would he want to keep emails from a time when he wasn't at his best if it didn't serve HIM in some way? He wants to keep the A alive and even if he is in NC with OW, he still gets his "fix" from those secrets he has with OW. THAT will DESTROY any chance that you may have to recover.

Having passwords for emails is a MINIMUM expectation in a healthy marriage.

hey guys,
thanks again for the suggestions and help. I have taken all of them very seriously.
So back when he sent me his dealbreaker letter, he told me that at that time, he made up his mind he was done. Now granted, it was in the middle of the A.

So why am I feeling like I have to win him back? Rhetorical question i know. He should be trying hard to win me back, not the other way around.

The way he sees it is that he did nothing really wrong cause he had made up his mind at that point that we were over. He never said the word divorce in the letter by the way.
Thoughts?

Thoughts? Sounds like he is acting exactly like someone who is involved in an affair.

At the risk of being redundant, you need to stay in affair-fighting mode rather than moving into recovery mode since you haven't exposed and you don't have transparency.

fair enough. I am getting some clarity with this, exposure and transparency. And quite frankly, being okay with not having him here. whats in it for me anyway right?

Sounds like your LB$ is getting low and you need to think about Plan B...but I wouldn't recommend that until you have completed your Plan A and exposure.

What are your concerns about exposure? If you tell us, maybe we can help you...

well susie q thanks for asking.
here is my take.if i expose him, he will walk out. then blame me for him "having to leave his home" in other words, i kicked him out. so thats another thing he can blame me for.

i should add, last night was date night. it went really good and we laughed and had fun.
today was typical but we talked on chat and he sent me smiles that kissed and xoxo'd me.
maybe my persistant plan a is working?

when i feel the time is right, i am going to ask him to send the nc letter using the template here, and delete the hotmail account.
i have been plan aing for 3 2/3 months, he has only been in nc for 2/3 months (and went off nc for 2 minutes during a phone call over a week ago). she couldnt take the call.

hi all
well he sent his nc letter, not exactly the way its worded here but sent it. i check in with him about weekly to ask if he has talked to her and no he hasnt.
he thinks that short call he made a little over a week ago doesnt count. they didnt have a conversation, as she was busy.

His family now knows and so does mine about the A. I exposed and his parents did speak with him and told him they are not happy with him. My folks will support me 100% in whatever i do.

last night we talked alot. he says that he is dented as over the years, he felt beat up by me. i know this is not the A talking, he has said this in the past. i know i wasnt the most pleasant person to be around for many years. I had low level depression that i am now being treated for. still, no excuse to treat him the way i did. barking orders, running the house like a military installation (similar to my childhood).

He says that he is kind of mad at me for doing a 180 on him and that all of a sudden (plan a) i am the person i should have been all this time. (now mind you, i wasnt getting my needs met for along time too).

He says we have been in recovery for months. (actually is nc started on 1-1-11 so its been a little over amonth, plus he called her a couple weeks ago for a 2 minute call. No, he is not seeing her. I can account for his whereabouts and he has no free time in which to see her.

I asked him last night about trying, and he again says that it has been months and that he has to want to try (too meet my needs) first. He apparently doesnot want to or so he says.

But, he has been calling me during the day to say hi, and we have been going to a group session (no i dont like it but it was something we could do on short notice) for the last 4 weekends for 1 1/2 hours on a saturday.

I said those are things that i can acknowledge that shows u are trying. He is getting discouraged because he thinks that his love for me should be happening quicker. That this is taking too long. I am afraid he is going to give up before we are recovered.

So I ask you, how long can this recovery process take?

Also, please tell me specifically what the phone counseling can do specifically for him with regards to
1. Him getting over past hurts I have done to him
2. Him wanting to meet my needs
3. Him realizing that our marriage is worth saving

And any other things things that he would specifically be hearing, so that we can fix this marriage.

Thank you

NC has not been achieved here. Even a phone call or text message is a violation of NC.

There is no sense in trying to "ask" him about whether he thinks he is in NC. He will just lie to you. You need to look at his actions.

These are the actions that will show you when he is serious about NC.
1. send a NC letter, designed like the one in SAA, sent via mail by you *NOT TEXT MESSAGE OR EMAIL* (we can post a copy of this for you if you don't have the book)

2. be willing to be transparent, giving you passwords to all phone, FB and email accounts

3. change the ways that he had contact with her (he should do this with you) ex, if he was in email contact with her, you two should sit down and close the account and open a new one. No keeping any emails, notes, pictures or gifts from OW. He should also change his cell phone no and allow you to erase OW's contact info from his phone etc.

If he will not agree to the above (don't negotiate, just tell him this is what is necessary to recover the marriage), then I would prepare yourself for Plan B.

One quick comment: he learns the M is worth saving by your actions during Plan A. Even if the A is ongoing, that message is still being sent. It may just not get through till later.

thank you Neak for your insight. He says he wants to work on us. Just that it feels like I am taking on the lionshare of the work.

What is the typical recovery period? I mean after n/c. I am still in plan A. He told me last night that he is kind of upset and how can I do a 180 on him so fast (which by the way will never go back around to the way I was) and he feels that this is the way I should have been all along.

Also, he told me last night that SF was not in the picture right now. I know that it is one of his top EN, but he is willing to not have it met right now cause he says "it feels false, fake".

Please offer your thoughts and comments on this. I need some insight.
Thank you

Is the reason you have stopped drinking been becuase you might get your H back?

I am sure that his affair had a lot to do with the onset of your depression and drinking, and being here is helping you to take better care of your emotions also.

Don't rule out AA as another way to understand yourself, all knowledge about this stuff will be important for your recovery, and if WH sees your in charge of your life and seeking counsel for yourself, it should encourage him to do the same.

But in recovery the first person you should be taking care of is you.

Will you explain why you havn't gone to AA?

10 years is a long time drinking

Women please understand this!
Of course, every man is different and not all men would think the same way. But there�s one universal thing that all men want from their partners and it doesn�t matter what type of person he is. There�s no denying that every man would want this and without it, he would find it very hard to stay with his current relationship and would be more likely to cheat on you if someone else would come along and prove that they can satisfy this need.

The answer is admiration for the decisions that they make and the feeling of achievement. You see, when young boys grow up they are constantly faced with the need to prove themselves, and to be recognized for any sort of achievement that they�ve accomplished. In society, men are taught to play the strong leadership role, and without the special feeling of being admired, they will lose all sense of who they are.

You may call this an ego that constantly needs validation. There is a deep desire within every man to constantly be recognized for their achievements. This is why winning a trophy in sports, or playing a video game is such a big thing for men because it gives them a sense of accomplishment and recognition.

There�s no shortages of examples where men would constantly want to feed their egos. You may notice this to be true when they brag about how much weight they can lift or when they show off their new expensive sports car to all their friends. The reality is that all men want to be good at something, and they want you to know how good they are at it.

The more you try to take control while putting him down and not giving him the validation that he needs. The more likely that he�d want to leave the relationship or commit an affair with another woman that�s better at stroking his ego.

So overall the number 1 tip, is to give him recognitions and acknowledgment for the things that he�s done. He likes to be admired for a job well done, It can be as simple as praising him for fixing things around the house, or for paying the bills. You should also give him the feeling of accomplishment, so be a little challenging at times, but ultimately give him what he wants in the end.

****edit**** - no solicitation please.

Hi Peter
Whats does no soliciation mean?


Re: recognition and acknowledgement. I give him a post it note everyday starting out like this, I appreciate that you (fill in the blank with something I appreciate)

I also am very quick to point out things that he does and thank for it and also say great job!

i guess my kuddos will come eventualy?