My wife of 18 years is having pre-menopausal hormonal changes and is having mid-life crises. She has asked for space, which I have given her. The problem is the space she is asking for is to chat online with men in a very intimate way with attempts to meet them. She says it is a phase and will pass, but I feel that she is using me as a backup as she looks for another man. When I read about this online there is conflicting advice. For mid-life crises, they say let her be. Let her do what she wants. Don�t push the issue, or she will go further away. For non-midlife crises the advice is hard love. Send her the message that if she does not change, it is over. I would like to hear other opinions and help me explore the best approach.

Here is more background:

On 11/26/10 I discovered that she was online chatting and video chatting with men. This caused me to snoop and learn that she had had a long distance affair with her old collage sweet heart from Taiwan. My wife is Chinese. The affair was about a year long, with only a couple meetings and had ended 6 months earlier in 3/10. The affair woke me up and I started improving myself, paying more attention to my wife and getting in shape. Our relationship did get better, with the exception of the times we would argue over the online chatting. Our physical intimacy was very strong before and even stronger during this time.

The bad part was that the online chatting did not stop. She did stop the video. She said it was only fantasy. I believed her, but I continued to check chat logs. The chatting was not innocent. She had not met anyone, but she became very close to one man and tried to setup meetings. They fell through on his side, but the intent was there. I did not want to let her know that I could see the chat logs, so I just pushed her to stop without giving details. She would become angry and defensive, and I felt like this would push her further, and so I backed off.

A week ago, she returned to Taiwan to visit her family over the Chinese New Year. Neither of us considers it a separation. Her Mom is aging and it makes sense for her to go. I asked her on the day she left if she thought our marriage would make it. She convincingly said it would. She has often said she does not want a divorce. She wants to stay married. She went on to say that the kids stress was a big part of her problem, and that I was one of the main reasons for her to be in our family. We have two kids 14 and 16.

She has now been in Taiwan for a week, and is in the middle of a new torrid video chatting affair with someone. The proclaim love to each other and talk of when they will meet when she returns home. Her intent when meeting is to keep it secret from me. He is single and lives in a different state, but has said he will visit her. I still have not let her know that I can see her logs.

I recently sent her an email two days ago that stated that her being intimate with other men, whether it is online, video, email, or physical meeting would no longer work because it undermines our relationship. I asked her to make a decision about whether she wanted to stay married or be single to date other men. There was a lot of other stuff in the email about the future, and us. She has responded to a different email regarding child decisions just this morning and in one has said she will respond to my email about the �other thing� in a different email.

I am betting she will pull the denial thing again. She will say it is a phase, and that the men online are just part of a fantasy, even if she becomes emotionally attached. She says that she moves on from one to another quickly (which is true). There have been three that I know of over the past 3 months. The fact that the commitment to meet and that the video is heating up again is making me very worried. And this is why I am pushing things to a head.

You are being manipulated by a master deciever, Sir. There is no such thing as "mid-life crisis." And if there was, it has nothing to do with her affairs. Nor is it an excuse for her adultery.

So far, you have done nothing more than ENABLE her adulterous, destructive way of life. It is very hard to end an affair<s> when you are an enabler. Your enabling has given her false expectations of entitlement and fueled the monster.


This is the wisest thing you have done and I applaud you for taking this action. I would not allow her to come back unless she stops her affairs and agrees to stay off the internet entirely and commits to recovery of the marriage. You are correct to DEMAND that she stop her adultery.

If she won't do that, then you are better off going into what we call a pitch black Plan B, with absolutely no contact at all.

And after you cut off contact, I would expose her affairs wide and far. Her behavior thrives on secrecy so exposing it to everyone will cause her to have second thoughts.

Sorry you are here.

"mid-life crisis" = baloney

"needing space" = cheaters code for need space to carry on my affair

Cut off her $ and cut off her ability to chat/text/ whatever except email you.

Do as Mel said and demand she end her affairs. What a great suggestion she gave you whe she said to not let her come back unless it ends!

I'm barely 41 and also don't believe as a woman, in midlife crisis, or in my hormones telling me to give up my dignity. It's a decption to get you to think she cannot have he abilty to control her own behaviors.

She's nuts if she thinks for a second what she is doing is good for any marriage and that what she is doing is right. Kudos to you for standing up!

I have never understood what "mid life crisis" means. We have 20 somethings and 50 somethings doing the exact same things but for some bizarre reason when a 35-40 year does the EXACT SAME THINGS we have a cutesy name for it.

It is just one big fat excuse to act like a skank.

Thanks you for the support. I have some questions:

Any recommendations on how to handle her denial that it is anything more than fantasy without disclosing my ability to see her chats? She will say that she has never met any of her chat friends and based on the logs this is correct. She has only tried to meet and failed. But without disclosing my source how do I challenge it. I want to leave my ability to see what is going on in case she actually agrees to change. It will allow me to make sure sheis being honest.

I am very concerned about the exposure thing. If I were to expose this to her family in Taiwan, I am certain this would put a wedge between us that she would never forgive. Realize that this would cause her to lose face and from what I have read, this is a very big deal to Chinese.

Realize that so far each of her on-line flings has only been on-line and they have only lasted a few weeks.

If I go to plan B with no contact, would this include questions about the kids? She is going to return to the U.S. and she will come home. Then what. I cannot force her out, and I do not want to leave the kids. Separation for me only works if she is the one who leaves. I can suggest it, but I am not sure if she will. Do I lower myself to disconnecting the Internet and not giving her private computer time? She will just use her laptop at a coffee house. It seems like this defeats the purpose of no contact. Or maybe I don�t fully understand plan B.

Does plan B always include file for divorce or does separation count?

FYI: I agree that a midlife crises is no excuse for no self control. There is one thing going on with her. Her hormones are on hyper drive due to pre menopause. Her labido is off the charts. Many women go the other direction with lower labido. Not her. Still no excuse, but it is fueling the fire.

It is ok if she denies everything. You don't need her admission of anything and I would not even try to debate this with her. I would tell her that you know about her affair with the college friend and her other emotional affairs [and mention any physical affairs you know of] and that she has to end them if she wants to remain married to you. Tell her, otherwise, this will lead to divorce. This is not something you need to debate, because this is non-negotiable.

You don't need to tell her how you know all this. It is none of her business. But keep in mind that the purpose of snooping is to use that intel to kill her affair, NOT for voyuerism. You should use it to stop her. And not agree to reconcile unless she gives up her laptop and becomes completely transparent. If she agrees to do all that, I would certainly put a GPS on her car and a camera and recorder in your home.


There is already a wedge between you and it grows deeper every day. If she loses face with her family it will be becuase of HER behavior, not yours. And she should lose face with her family. She has lost face because of her sleazy behavior. You will need to enlist the support of her parents to persuade her to stop. Hiding her dirty secret serves to ENABLE her, it does not help her in any way. By not telling everyone about her affairs, you are hurting her by protecting her from the consequences of her behavior. That HURTS HER and your marriage.


That is not what you said here:
Not to mention that emotional affairs [online affairs] are just as devastating to marriages as physical affairs. Many physical affairs start online and that is what your wife is seeking.


You would have absolutely no contact with her. Any communication about the kids could be done through the kids or an intermediary.


I would not allow her to come home unless she agrees to give up her computer and end her affairs. Even if you have to file for divorce on grounds of abandonment, I would not let her back in. This is how Wheelsspinning killed his wife's online affair. He wouldn't let her come back unless she ended it. He was prepared to change the locks and file on grounds of abandonment. They are in recovery today.


I am confused by this question. Yes, you should disconnect the internet and if she goes to a coffee shop, then you would know she is not serious and separate from her [Plan B]. IF she doesn't HAVE a laptop, she won't be able to go to a coffee shop. I would not allow her to come unless she surrenders her laptop and takes dramatic steps to PROVE to her she has stopped trolling for men on the internet.

Plan B means you and your wife have no contact.


Hormones do not cause affairs. Your wife is having affairs because she is selfish, entitled, enabled and has no boundaries.

Here is how I would plan this. I would start off by calling her parents and telling them the truth about her affairs. Ask them to use their influence to persuade her to end her internet affairs. Tell them you want to save your marriage but are not going to allow her to come home unless it stops and she agrees to stay off the computer unless she is with you. Tell them your next step is divorce.

Tell your children and any other close relatives all about her affairs. Encourage them to speak to her.

This will set the stage for the next step and put her in a state of shock. You send her a letter and tell her you love her but are not willing to continue in the marriage unless this stops.

Tell her you are not interested in staying in a marriage with a wife who has affairs. This is what it will take to recover this marriage. Otherwise you are not interested in continuing the marriage:

1. end her online affairs and hand over her computer. Become completely transparent

2. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to you, including the name of the lovers, the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

3. create a romantic relationship using this program

If she will not agree to these steps, then send her a Plan B letter, change the locks and get a legal separation barring her on grounds of adultery and abandonment.

Dude, other than the fact that my STBXWW is not chinese, your situation is very similar to what I was in a little more than a year ago. I tried to really work on the marriage, she wanted no part of it, we are now getting divorced.

If I were to do it over again, I would have said "here's what I want, I'll be over here when you are ready for it." Then I would have split the finances, made her take care of herself and recorded everything and started building up my life again....Instead, here I am almost divorced and in shock. Quit enabling her! Right now!!!

Read up on the MB principles and figure out what you need to do but if she is anything like my STBXWW then she will continue to go down this path, especially if you continue to allow it.

If there's anything I've earned the right to tell you, it is the wrong way to recover. Do what you're told.

My D-day is almost 3 years and I still haven't recovered! I wish I could take back that day and take DRASTIC steps. DO NOT ALLOW her back until you know this is going to end.

Expose this to the fullest extent and let her deal with the consequences of her behavior. You are fortunate to be here at this critical time (even though unfortunate that this had to happen) given the circumstances.

The heart ache of living with someone who is not committed to the relationship and the helpless feeling you have when you can't seem to stop their destructive behavior is crippling.

Do something now...it may actually save your marriage....

What will cause her to lose face is NOT you exposing, it will be from people (family and close friends) finding out that she is a liar and a cheater. As far as losing face among Chinese people, it IS a big deal. Cheating on your husband is not honorable behavior.

Wow. Thank you for the support. You are all awesome.

I sent her another email that was still putting in the LB and used some humor to try to lighten it up, but finished with "make up your mind already" (regarding the ability to commit to a marriage.)

She responded with: "I already made up my mind and told you." She is referring to telling me that she does not want a divorce and she loves me. The terseness of this is her wanting to avoid the hard question. So I did not let up!

I sent back the following:

+++
You told me you want to be married. You told me you love me.

You have not told me if you can stop having online, phone, email or physical intimate relationships with other men. This is the answer that I need, so that I can know if I should be here for you or move on.
+++

I bet she ignores this one for at least a day if not longer. I hate when she does that. However, it means she will be putting some serious pressure on her online chat "friends" to see if they are going to be there for her.

Any suggestions on how long to wait for her answer?

thanks again. and I will let you know what happens next.

hopi, I would stop asking her for a decision and tell her how it will be. She has already made a decision. And that is to keep you BOTH. She wants to continue her behavior and have you foot the bill.

I would call her mother, expose the affairs and ask for her support. Ask her to use her influence to persuade your wife to end her affairs. Tell the mother your WW won't be allowed back unless she meets certain conditions.

Then send your wife a letter telling her she is not welcome home unless she meets the conditions I outlined above. Thoughtful requests are not going to get you anywhere. You have to lay out your conditions and make it clear she will not be welcomed back unless she meets them.

Instead of waiting for HER, you should tell her how it will be.

From the new book by Dr. Harley Effective Marriage Counseling pg 94:

"Granted, there are situations when demands may be necessary in marriage. During a spouse's affair, for example, I recommend that the betrayed spouse demand there be no contact with the lover. If there is continued contact, separation or even divorce would be the logical consequence. While normally demands don't work, in this case there are no reasonable alternatives because thoughtful requests are even less likely to separate lovers."

OK. I sent the list of what I need to make the marriage work. I am not expecting much from her. She is going to fight like a cornered wolverine. (She also has some anger problems)

Her Mom only speaks Chinese. About the best I can do is send email to her older sister who lives in the family home in Taiwan where my wife is staying right now. Is there any reason I have to send it now. Can I wait a day or two?

Unfortunately I am in a "no fault" state so the adultery will not allow me to keep her out of the house. Just the same my next thing to do is go for a second consultation with my attorney, so I can ask about my rights to keep her out.

I got a response to my email about no contact and it is as expected:

---
you are being very selfish. Why should I obey your command and do things your way, you know being harsh with me will never work. I hate it when you talk this way, painting a very ugly picture in my head. I wish you hadn't sent me this email, just makes me want to yell.
---

Do I respond? I want to argue with her but what is the point. Does she really think I am the one being selfish. I sometimes wonder if she has a personallity disorder. Maybe she is narcissistic.

She's still trying to hold on to that fantasy world where she gets to cat around and have you as the "backup plan".

It's time to expose.

@Hop -


Standard wayward script. Of course it's all your fault. You are trying to have her give up her addiction. This is standard babble. I wouldn't argue.

Did you tell her that if she didn't quit it would lead to divorce?

Can I wait a day or two before exposing?

Sure, if you want to give her more time to spin her own story to her family. Don't be surprised if the next time they contact you, they appear to believe that you're some sort of control freak that your WW had to get away from...