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"trapped". I had to quietly LOL on that one. I heard that too plenty of times. Guess what. Noone is keeping you here. If you want to leave, you can. But, you don't have to completely rip my heart out again with ANOTHER affair while you leave...
Very shortly before my husband told me he wanted a divorce, we had that conversation. He said he felt trapped. I told him he was no more trapped than I was. He acted as if that was his aha moment to leave.
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And to think that my STBX told me 5 months ago that she had a problem with boundaries (in a negative way). She just blurted it out too; no prompting. But, some people just don't have the actitude to put into practice, what they know.
My husband flirted. He may have gone a brief time without flirting during the last four years, but I've never trusted his boundaries, even after he learned all about boundaries here. He's read Harley's books, and use to post here every now and then back in the day.
In the two years before this split, he became anamored with the new age stuff, and his values and beliefs have shifted. I see this shift more as cognitive dissonance to make him feel ok about what he does.
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As for future realtionship boundaries, I haven't gotten that far in my thought process. I know it will be years before I am any good for someone else. I'll figure that out later if I will draw the line from the start, or if the line can be mobile.
That's about where I'm at in my thoughts about it too. I feel I need to step away from the crazymaking for awhile to see things clearer. However, I don't know that I will ever give blind trust ever again. It's not that I'm too wounded, it's just that I've learned more since then. Anyone that needs privacy with another woman other than a relative, while in an exclusive relationship with me, would be questionable to say the least.
How do you keep your boundaries without coming off sounding jilted and paranoid?
On another note....I don't see the need to inform the inlaws, unless you change your address or phone number. I could see notifying them that you have new contact info, and you wanted them to know where to find you and your son. Afterall, they are his grandparents, however distant. I'd probably say something like, "Even though WW has left our marriage, I would still like to keep in contact".
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She claims to understand what I'm going through
Good one. Has she even ever asked you what it's really like and really listened?
Last edited by MyJourney; 02/02/1102:18 AM.
D-yr fall 06-fall 07 Separated 10/2010 Him-several affairs, last one 3/2011 Divorced filed 3/2011, final 3/2012
After a 4 yr FR, it became CLEAR to me of what you can look for in a FR. And that is the absence of POJA, and/or if your spouse tramples on your boundaries. If someone is not willing to do POJA with you, and they don't respect your boundaries, imo, the relationship is doomed.
I don't know why I even look at this point. She defriended me on FB, but doesn't realize I can still see her wall. Note: I'm only keeping her unblocked in case I can use anything. I know that it just sends me into whirlwinds of hurt all over again. Especially when I see posts like this (I still pay for everything, and D hasn't been filed): "Nothing makes you more feel alive when Butterflies, fast heart throbbing and to know when he thinks of you :))))"
Then of course her/our friends follow up with stuff like "Glad you're happy".
Part of me can use this type of stuff to reaffirm why I want out of this marriage. But, the flip side is my memories of when I used to be the one making the butterflies.
Last edited by itsaname; 02/02/1107:31 AM.
BH (me): 31 WXW: 31 (Still in the house!) Married: Jan 2005 DS: 6 years old DDay #1: 12 Mar 2008 Failed Recovery #1: Jun 2008 - Jun 2010 DDay #2: 28 Jun 2010 Failed Recovery #2: Aug 2010 - Sep 2010 Plan A/Limbo: Sep 2010 - 24 Jan 2011 DDay #3: 29 Jan 2011 On OM#4, that I know of... D Filed: 11 Feb 2011 D Final: 10 Jun 2011 (still waiting on prop division & custody)
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
I'd use it as fodder for when it comes time to fight for custody. BTW, you're surely not going to let her leave the country with your child, are you? I wouldn't... Maybe counterfiling wouldn't be a bad idea. Sometimes the one who files is in the driver's seat.
No, she will not be leaving the country with my child without my consent. I have his passport. That was her plan 3 years ago, but she quickly learned that I aint down with that $h1t.
Also, she hasn't filed. She can't be bothered with any of this real world stuff; it gets in the way of fantasies.
I'm doing a little better. Still trying to direct my "why" and "what is she doing without me" thoughts into constructive paths.
I scored a tiny victory today though. I told her that her cell phone will be cancelled by Thursday, but I set it up to just transfer into her name. So she called to complete the transfer....denied! Then she hands it over to me with the usual "help" look. No help here. Just a reply of "Well, it's getting cancelled tomorrow". She then tried to start talking about prepaids and why it was better anyway. I almost started to explain that prepaid phones in the US are not like in Germany (i.e. not better, but almost worse than contracts if you get the wrong one); but I did no such thing. My help over the past 6 years has been met with betrayl and disregard. So it shall flow no more. I know it doesn't seem like much, but I'm a SEVERE Giver at heart.
She left after we put our son to bed. Think we all know where she's going... And as it usually happens, I'm the one who ends up having to answer questions like "where's momma?" DS just woke up because of the wind outside.
Ok, I'm done with tonight's pity party. Time to get some of the real world stuff figured out. The way I figure it, I should be able to get pretty much all I want; simply because she chooses not to worry herself with things other than teenage feelings.
BH (me): 31 WXW: 31 (Still in the house!) Married: Jan 2005 DS: 6 years old DDay #1: 12 Mar 2008 Failed Recovery #1: Jun 2008 - Jun 2010 DDay #2: 28 Jun 2010 Failed Recovery #2: Aug 2010 - Sep 2010 Plan A/Limbo: Sep 2010 - 24 Jan 2011 DDay #3: 29 Jan 2011 On OM#4, that I know of... D Filed: 11 Feb 2011 D Final: 10 Jun 2011 (still waiting on prop division & custody)
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
Had an eventful morning. STBX wasn't at the house when I woke up. She made me slightly late for work. I called her, no anwser. Then an immediate "I'm on my way" text message. When she did get to the house, I informed her that that was her only wake up call (double meaning, but I doubt she got it), and she spouted off some BS. But, apparently she told DS last night that she was going to a "friend's". Nice. Real nice.
So, I'm now pondering about telling DS5 EVERYTHING that has happened in the past 3 years. How do you get past the fear of how they'll take it? Is now even the right time? Could it harm my upcoming custody agreement/argument?
Also, since she's so wrapped up in this...whatever-it-is...she is really slacking on making any effort to act like she wants to move out and be on her own. I know she's waiting on the tax return so she can get an appartment; but I told her this weekend that I need her W2. Still no W2. I just finished filling out everything but her info.
Her phone will have no service past midnight, which she'll find out tomorrow morning. I didn't tell her. Well, I told her Monday that the phone with either be xfer'd or cancelled by Thurs. So, it's probably childish, but I'm just sick of having to constantly remind her of her responsibilities.
I did have a random thought today that has just kept circling though. And it in no way is an excuse. STBX has wanted to leave me for quite some time. I'd say 4 years. Her guilt towards breaking up DS's home has kept her from doing that. But, the only time she really seems unhappy with "us" and starts to "move on" is AFTER she has found someone else. I think subconciously she has to find someone to compare me too, and at the same time is passive aggressively getting me to be the one who says "I'm done". Of course, she has a very offset understanding of what a committed relationship is.
You know what. After typing all that, I'm going to say nevermind. I just let myself see, that I'm trying to explain it away. She EFFed up repeatedly. She's an adult. Now it's time for her to collect her payment. End of story.
Long road to ruin...
BH (me): 31 WXW: 31 (Still in the house!) Married: Jan 2005 DS: 6 years old DDay #1: 12 Mar 2008 Failed Recovery #1: Jun 2008 - Jun 2010 DDay #2: 28 Jun 2010 Failed Recovery #2: Aug 2010 - Sep 2010 Plan A/Limbo: Sep 2010 - 24 Jan 2011 DDay #3: 29 Jan 2011 On OM#4, that I know of... D Filed: 11 Feb 2011 D Final: 10 Jun 2011 (still waiting on prop division & custody)
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
After a 4 yr FR, it became CLEAR to me of what you can look for in a FR. And that is the absence of POJA, and/or if your spouse tramples on your boundaries. If someone is not willing to do POJA with you, and they don't respect your boundaries, imo, the relationship is doomed.
Nevermind, I just re-read your original post......
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So, she eventually took a trip home, and that was when the first A happened. It was completely planned, and was the resaon for the trip. I found out after she returned, when she informed me she was planning on taking our son to Germany and being with the OM. They were in love. I quickly filed, blocked my son's removal from the country, and confiscated his documents. She had no job in the US at the time, so she sold some things (our rings, which I bought the one I gave to her) and flew back to Germany. Classic "runner". 4 weeks later, she returns full of guilt and apologies. But, cannot say the words verbally, so she hands me a letter. I take some time, and decide let's try and work it out.
That recovery lasted 2 years, and included a 4 month deployment. It wasn't always easy, but we also didn't really change anything about our relationship. It was definitely child-centric. I had a VERY hard time letting go of the resentment and holding the A against her. But I got better as time progressed. Then, this past April she goes back to Germany (has had a job for almost 2 years now, so saved her money and paid for the trip with a little help from me) to see some friends and family. She returns, and things are a little wierd.
I go out of town on business for a week. I return, get the phone bill a week later and notice it's a little high and a German number I've never seen. Do some digging (A's make you good at that) and find out it's a young man stationed in Germany. Ask her who he is, and she say's "It's just somebody I met who is going through some rough times and I was kind of helping him out." She lied pretty good, cause I believed her. I was also fighting my trust issues after 2 years, so I think that had a little to do with it. A few weeks later, I get the itch and go snooping hardcore. Then I find the evidence verifying the second A. I lose it, and go on yet another roller coaster. I waffled big time on this one, and eventually we agree to give it another shot. A "restart" in her words.
I had found MB this time, and read HNHN and SAA. It made me realize what I (repeat "I") hadn't been doing throughout our entire relationship. So I commit to working on me. I ask her to read HNHN as I read SAA. She starts, but the motivation just doesn't seem to be there for long. Also, I really don't see any "action" that would suggest she sees the recovery the way I do.
So, she begins flirting with someone she met on FB while we were seperated. I find it (snooping, she never gave me passwords), explain my feelings about it, and it seems she understood and implies that she'll stop. Sunday night, we have some friends over and she has about a bottle of wine. She ends up sending this OM another message stating she misses talking to him. I find it, confront her and tell her "If you're going to keep doing this, please get out of my life". I know, ultimatums are bad. And yes, I pushed her in the corner and gave her only one option. So, now she has realized there is no love there to grow, and she's tired of pretending. She just wants to be free and not "tied down". Admits she's tired of hurting the people around her. But still will not answer if she wants to change herself to stop that...
I know that I've tried as hard as I can, and endured more than most could. But, she is apparently not going to choose anyway that involves facing some demons. She refuses counseling of any kind, since it is judgemental and "brainwashing" So, I now must do the hardest thing I can imagine: go dark, and withold the only thing I've ever wanted to give her; my love. The D-Train will be roling again, and I don't think it will be making any stops this time.
Wow, sounds almost exactly like my situation, with the multiple affairs, and the lack of effort. I completely understand your frustration. I found out about the multiple affairs over about an 8 month period, with the remaining discovered right before a polygraph test.
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I think subconciously she has to find someone to compare me too, and at the same time is passive aggressively getting me to be the one who says "I'm done".
This was us too Itsa. I believe he continued to fantasize about other women, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he continued to flirt and cheat behind my back during our lousy so called recovery. I let that man mess my head up bad. I think it's going to take some serious time away from him, and counseling, to undo the damage he did to my psyche.
The worst part for me is forgiving myself because I allowed myself to stay in that effed up situation too long. Not to mention forgiving myself for my behavior during it all.
I myself landed in my attorney's office 3 times, but could not go through with it, because he tried "just enough" to keep me hanging on, but never enough to have a great relationship, that needed healing.
I've often wondered, this time around, if he's found someone else "again". I know he's flirting and took off his ring right after he left.
At this point, I don't care to wonder anymore. It's not like he'd ever tell me the truth anyway. I don't think he has ever cared for me THAT much.
He's going to be in my rearview mirror soon.
Last edited by MyJourney; 02/04/1112:11 AM.
D-yr fall 06-fall 07 Separated 10/2010 Him-several affairs, last one 3/2011 Divorced filed 3/2011, final 3/2012
After a 4 yr FR, it became CLEAR to me of what you can look for in a FR. And that is the absence of POJA, and/or if your spouse tramples on your boundaries. If someone is not willing to do POJA with you, and they don't respect your boundaries, imo, the relationship is doomed.
Her phone will have no service past midnight, which she'll find out tomorrow morning. I didn't tell her. Well, I told her Monday that the phone with either be xfer'd or cancelled by Thurs. So, it's probably childish, but I'm just sick of having to constantly remind her of her responsibilities.
This morning's FB status from STBX: "Whoever has the need to text me on my phone please don't ...without warning I woke up with no number...well well well...the chapter of a fresh new start begins now I guess"
My favorite is the "without warning". Sorry sweetheart. You knew 4 days ago that your phone would be cancelled by Thursday. Sorry you failed to act accordingly and get a phone for yourself.
This will keep a smile on my face for most of the day.
BH (me): 31 WXW: 31 (Still in the house!) Married: Jan 2005 DS: 6 years old DDay #1: 12 Mar 2008 Failed Recovery #1: Jun 2008 - Jun 2010 DDay #2: 28 Jun 2010 Failed Recovery #2: Aug 2010 - Sep 2010 Plan A/Limbo: Sep 2010 - 24 Jan 2011 DDay #3: 29 Jan 2011 On OM#4, that I know of... D Filed: 11 Feb 2011 D Final: 10 Jun 2011 (still waiting on prop division & custody)
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
You know what. After typing all that, I'm going to say nevermind. I just let myself see, that I'm trying to explain it away. She EFFed up repeatedly. She's an adult. Now it's time for her to collect her payment. End of story.
Long road to ruin...
It's funny how seeing it all in black and white helps you to see through all the BS. I'm sorry you and your DS are going through this.
Me: BS 51 Himself: WH 53, EA/PA w/ RunnerSlut his "running buddy." Buncha' kids. The two youngest are still minors. Separated: 08/13/09 after 25 years of marriage Plan D: Filed 11/13/09 Final 3/30/11 MC told me that he probably has a personality disorder
So, having a rough moment. She just left to go see POSOM.
Not that it's the first time I've been through this, but I still want to grab her, shake her violently, and repeatedly ask her why she can't choose me and our family.
I know at this point it isn't anything I have or haven't done; it's her. And I know that I'll be better off without this person as they are; that she'll never be who I want her to be.
Last night was good for me. I had to go to work for a little while, and told DS earlier that I'd be going to a work buddies house afterwards. Which I did. Stayed there WAY too late, and really need some sleep (which probably isn't helping my head right now). Of course, I'd hope STBX had some thoughts similar to mine, but I doubt that happens in fantasy-land. I did notice that she posted on FB a couple of times her urge to just run away. Old habits die hard eh? Honestly, I'd be heart broken to watch DS go through that again. But for me it would help my moving on.
Oh well, time to get out the paint samples so DS and I can decide which red to paint the kitchen. Black countertops, deep red cherry cabinets, black/stainless appliances...rounded off with either a Bordeaux or Merlot red. I think I'll like it much better than STBX's pale yellow scheme. We only made it through the first coat of that scheme before it all blew up again. Baffling how you can tell me you want to paint "our" house, and still have no emotional attachment to me or enough respect to not enter ANOTHER relationship...
Ok, vent session over.
BH (me): 31 WXW: 31 (Still in the house!) Married: Jan 2005 DS: 6 years old DDay #1: 12 Mar 2008 Failed Recovery #1: Jun 2008 - Jun 2010 DDay #2: 28 Jun 2010 Failed Recovery #2: Aug 2010 - Sep 2010 Plan A/Limbo: Sep 2010 - 24 Jan 2011 DDay #3: 29 Jan 2011 On OM#4, that I know of... D Filed: 11 Feb 2011 D Final: 10 Jun 2011 (still waiting on prop division & custody)
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
So, DS and I put some sample patches up. Bordeaux and Merlot look fairly different on the swatch cards, but are almost identical on the wall. The Bordeaux seems to cover better though, so I think I'll go with that.
In other news, after 2 more attempts to initiate/schedule a conversation about the terms of our impending D, STBWXW is apparently still not concerned with the real world. She avoids all opportunities to converse, so I think I'm just going to tell the lawyer how I want it, what I think is equitable, and file it. We'll just have to see if she wants to deal with it after that.
I'm having a really hard time walking the line that I want. I truly want to be fair, and do whatever is best for DS; which I believe is to have both of us in his life as much as possible. But, I still want to ensure that STBWXW is pulling the weight she should be. Sure, I can do all the heavy lifting; I've proven that. But, is it in DS's best interest for me to continue to do that?
This is a time when I really don't like my core belief of always being the bigger person...
BH (me): 31 WXW: 31 (Still in the house!) Married: Jan 2005 DS: 6 years old DDay #1: 12 Mar 2008 Failed Recovery #1: Jun 2008 - Jun 2010 DDay #2: 28 Jun 2010 Failed Recovery #2: Aug 2010 - Sep 2010 Plan A/Limbo: Sep 2010 - 24 Jan 2011 DDay #3: 29 Jan 2011 On OM#4, that I know of... D Filed: 11 Feb 2011 D Final: 10 Jun 2011 (still waiting on prop division & custody)
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
I understand about being the "bigger person." Unfortunately, that is the way it is going to be and will most likely have to be for the DS. Besides, do you really want her calling the shots?
Also, one thing that I have realized and I am guessing is the same for everyone (especially after browsing all of the threads I have). No matter what you put in that agreement when you do it, she will find something wrong with it. No matter how fair you think you are being, she will have a problem with it and want more. I know with my STBXWW that if I said the sky was blue today then she would find a way to disagree.
It's better to do what you think is best without worrying too much about STBXWW and then clear the next hurdle when it gets there.
SOmeone told me on my thread that my priorities should be 1. My daughter, and 2. me. I try not to worry about what my STBXWW wants or thinks if it doesn't mesh with those two priorities.
LBS (ME) 36 WAW 37 1 D 2 SD Bomb Nov 2010 sep Jan 2011
I'm having a really hard time walking the line that I want. I truly want to be fair, and do whatever is best for DS; which I believe is to have both of us in his life as much as possible. But, I still want to ensure that STBWXW is pulling the weight she should be. Sure, I can do all the heavy lifting; I've proven that. But, is it in DS's best interest for me to continue to do that?
Itsa, you can't make sure stbx will pull anything. You can do your best to give her that opportunity, but that's all you can do, especially in the context of divorceland.
You seem to be comfortable with doing the heavy lifting in the equation. If you believe in your heart that this is also the most beneficial scenario for your DS, then I would encourage you to do so (or at least push for that). Your child is your priority.
(of course there's a personal example to go along with my post): When I drew up our custody schedule I had a considerable lack of confidence in my ww(at the time)'s ability to make responsibile decisions especially on the weekends. So I took every Friday and everyother Saturday night. Fortunately she wasn't giving me an argument on anything so it went through. Now I have no impediment to knowing where my 14 year old is on Friday night (and every other Saturday) or who he's with. My personal life is affected by this; but my kids are more important than any of that.
Opt
Me: 43 y.o. BFWH, D-day 11/11/09 (NC since 9/01) Divorce from WW final 9/16/10. Current Status: MB-based Marriage to Nature Girl 12/8/12 (first date on 12/11/10) Mine: S(16), D(11) NatureGirls: S(23), D(21) Another EA Story
Opt, that is exactly what my custody plan is. Plus, I have thought about it the exact same way as you do!!! I have already thought about how it will affect my "social life" (that is, when I finally get to the point you are and actually have one). However, I don't really care about myself. Let me rephrase that....I care more about my daughter than I do myself and what can possibly happen to her later on down the road! That's better!!!:)
LBS (ME) 36 WAW 37 1 D 2 SD Bomb Nov 2010 sep Jan 2011
After a 4 yr FR, it became CLEAR to me of what you can look for in a FR. And that is the absence of POJA, and/or if your spouse tramples on your boundaries. If someone is not willing to do POJA with you, and they don't respect your boundaries, imo, the relationship is doomed.
Well, that was interesting. STBWXW just said to me out of the blue, "I had a horrible nightmare last night".
I didn't even flinch. Honestly, you think I care about your dreams now? Even if it was just an icebreaker to start a conversation about what we SHOULD be talking about; oh well. I'm not your friend anymore...remember?
Ok. Breathing. Calm. Centered.
There. Better.
Off to see the lawyer again tomorrow. I need to get my propsed custody schedule together. I need to get this ball rolling, and stop waiting for her to show some concern over what is happening.
Honestly, I'm suprised she hasn't left for OM's yet. She's off work tomorrow, so no need to get up "early" to take DS to school.
I can't wait until I stop thinking about it all the time. I know that this marriage is not what I want. But I still have the image of what it could have been. Mourning sucks.
BH (me): 31 WXW: 31 (Still in the house!) Married: Jan 2005 DS: 6 years old DDay #1: 12 Mar 2008 Failed Recovery #1: Jun 2008 - Jun 2010 DDay #2: 28 Jun 2010 Failed Recovery #2: Aug 2010 - Sep 2010 Plan A/Limbo: Sep 2010 - 24 Jan 2011 DDay #3: 29 Jan 2011 On OM#4, that I know of... D Filed: 11 Feb 2011 D Final: 10 Jun 2011 (still waiting on prop division & custody)
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
Well, that was interesting. STBWXW just said to me out of the blue, "I had a horrible nightmare last night".
I didn't even flinch. Honestly, you think I care about your dreams now? Even if it was just an icebreaker to start a conversation about what we SHOULD be talking about; oh well. I'm not your friend anymore...remember?
Silly rabbits!
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Off to see the lawyer again tomorrow. I need to get my propsed custody schedule together. I need to get this ball rolling, and stop waiting for her to show some concern over what is happening.
Waywards aren't rational. You can't rely on them for anything. My stbx went back on everything he has said to me. I wouldn't count on him for anything. I don't worry about what he's doing. I do what I need to do for me.
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Honestly, I'm suprised she hasn't left for OM's yet.
I wonder what she's going to do when she can't have her fantasy "affair" anymore? Once you're divorced, she'll just be another single person who broke up two families to fuel her lacking self. I wonder if she'll tell the truth about all that to her next void filler.
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I can't wait until I stop thinking about it all the time. I know that this marriage is not what I want. But I still have the image of what it could have been. Mourning sucks.
Me too! All of it. Dealing with the issues of dismantling the marrige brings it all to the forefront of my mind. I want it to be over so that I don't have to give it/him much thought.
D-yr fall 06-fall 07 Separated 10/2010 Him-several affairs, last one 3/2011 Divorced filed 3/2011, final 3/2012
After a 4 yr FR, it became CLEAR to me of what you can look for in a FR. And that is the absence of POJA, and/or if your spouse tramples on your boundaries. If someone is not willing to do POJA with you, and they don't respect your boundaries, imo, the relationship is doomed.
Waywards aren't rational. You can't rely on them for anything. My stbx went back on everything he has said to me. I wouldn't count on him for anything. I don't worry about what he's doing. I do what I need to do for me.
I've learned never to attribute anything real to anything my ex can say to me. He lies easier than he breathes and seemingly for no reason.
Well, I signed the petitions earlier. Will be filed tomorrow. The D-Train rolls.
It honestly is bittersweet. Probably not the pace of music to be listening to right now, but here's my "road song":
BH (me): 31 WXW: 31 (Still in the house!) Married: Jan 2005 DS: 6 years old DDay #1: 12 Mar 2008 Failed Recovery #1: Jun 2008 - Jun 2010 DDay #2: 28 Jun 2010 Failed Recovery #2: Aug 2010 - Sep 2010 Plan A/Limbo: Sep 2010 - 24 Jan 2011 DDay #3: 29 Jan 2011 On OM#4, that I know of... D Filed: 11 Feb 2011 D Final: 10 Jun 2011 (still waiting on prop division & custody)
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
Think of it as a step to a new and better tomorrow, you deserve that. And of course it's bittersweet, it always is, none of us thought when we married it would lead us down this road.
