my wh and i have separated. we lived in queen creek az and we have been struggling for some time, he is controling and manipulative and was involved in an EA. i left him on the advise of many, especially from here, and went to my mothers in show low az, about 3 hrs away. i have been a sahm for nearly 5 yrs and wo income or family in the area, i had no better choice than to come here.the kids and i have been here roughly 2 weeks.

the fist weekend, 3 days after i left, i allowed my husband to take the kids for the weekend on the stipulation that he sign and notoroize a good faith aggreement to return them on sunday. yesterday i allowed him to pick up the kids for this weekend under the same stipulation, which he provided. An hour later i got a call from him

"i filed for divorce and i have sole custodial custody, the kids will not be going back"

i have not yet been served. he said he has enrolled them in daycare. i have never been away from my kids for more than 2 nights. he told me "i want you to know how i felt" well i know now, but he will not give me the same good faith i gave him to see the kids.

before i left he told me he had been worried about losing his job...i think it must have been a ploy to make me feel sorry for him (he is extremely narcisistic) he told me last night that his work is payinhg for his lawyer!

i had been sitting on my divorce papers because he was seeking counsing and i truly believed he could chang his controlling and manipulative ways. i told him i just wanted time. that i wanted to take an online class and when it was done to court again and find new reasons to love him. well he showed his true colors didn't he.

so now we will enter into a custody battle. what do you all know about that? to me it only makes sense that the kids stay with me becauase i hav family support and i can take care of the kids without daycare. i amk stil a stay at home mom! also he had an order of protection on him and when he tried to get it released he withdrew and then the judge decided to put the kids on it. i had it removed when he sought counsling, of course he threatened me again as soon as he came home when my dad wouldn't let him have the guns back. i need a lawyer...

So sorry you are going through this L2L. I'm pretty ticked at your H right now. Having an affair and taking your kids. What an azz.

At this time, you're going to need a game plan.

- lawyer up
- document everything that's happened with the affair, and try to get any proof of the past or any current affairs.
- document every aspect of how you cared for the kids, and how your husband has taken your kids.

I can't see how a judge will be too keen on the dad kidnapping the kids. I'd want to file something with your attorney right away to get this ball rolling so that you can get your kids back.

Hi L2L, I'm sorry you're here. The weekend is slow, so try to remain composed, read as much as you can about this site and its concepts until the veterans drop in to help.

Your husband has just put himself into a very risky position. Simply filing for divorce does not automatically grant one custody of one's children. What he has done is essentially kidnapped them!

A lawyer is an absolute necessity. If you cannot afford one, you might be able to get one from Legal Aid. But please, if you can come up with a retainer, please hire a good family law attorney. Get a pit bull of an attorney!

MJ has given you the best immediate advice. Before you address the issue of you and your husband, you need to make sure the law is aware of the dangerous position he has put your kids in.

Do it now!

Get a lawyer NOW and get an emergency court order for the return of your children!

it was his deliberate plan to tell me at 430 on friday knowing that my hands would be tied until monday. i will file for and emergency court order first thing monday, then off to see a lawyer. it is my hope that if his work is truly providing an attny that it is the company's business atty and not a family atty. my parents are going to help me with atty retainer. and i truly believe the lord is on my side. anybody know if i can go to the kids new daycare and pick them up?

What your wh has done is illegal. You do not file for divorce and assume you have custody.

This guy, the same one who has been threatening you and potentially dangerous has your kids?

Not only lawyer up but show all the info you have that he is potentially dangerous and a loose cannon and get an emergency hearing asap. I got one within 24 hrs.

The good Lord IS on your side, but HE imparts wisdom upon us, and wants us to stand up and take action and do the right things. Nothing gets accomplished by sitting down.

Your wh is imho, a dangerous person and out of control. Get the kids away from him as well as a restraining order asap.

Why on earth did you have him sign anything in good faith? Why? A WS is a LYING person. They lie. Thats what they do. You cannot possibly believe somebody who would deceive and betray and harm the one he promised to love and cherish to do anything honorably do you?

The only thing my xwh understood was WHAT THE JUDGE TOLD HIM. His "taker" understood that if he didn't do what the judge told him, he'd be in jail and that he couldn't go have fun and rut with his ow pig. So he obeyed the judge I drug him in front of (many times btw).

I got an emergency hearing last year btw, for the NEXT DAY, regarding an emergency custody modification when I found out what my xh had been doing/did. We had joint but with me having more custody always, but now I'm sole.

You stand up for your kids. Now.

is it possible to get the emergency custody over the weekend?? is it possible that HE got emergency custody over them?? i suppose anything is possible, but to be granted emergency status he had to have lied. and is it enforceable if i havent been served??

Call the police on the non emergency number and tell them what you have been going through with WH including the RO. Tell them about his violence and what he said after he took the kids. I would think if the kids are in danger and there is documented proof he is violent they should have enough just cause to go find him and the kids.
It's worth a try!

If you have not been served with anything, then you have just as much right to pick the kids up from the daycare as he does. The only thing that might stop you is if he actually DID file and get an order and gave the day care a copy of it (which I doubt seriously). If you have to ask the police to escort you to the day care center and get your kids!

Filing means NOTHING until there is an agreement in place. Zip. He can show his CPR or drivers' license or his Sams' Club discount card to whomever he wants at the daycare along with the papers showing he filed.

NONE of that matters. Until there is a hearing in place, he has equal right to the kids as she does.

And L2L, you cannot get one over the weekend. Show up first thing in the morning at the courthouse armed with documents to show to a judge or to the assistant to the judge (in my state it is superior court). If it's presented and sounds as if the kids are in harms' way, the judge can grant you an emergency hearing soon. My judge was cool and I had proper documentation and his paralegal/assistant went into his chambers, showed him what I had, and he granted me (this was a friday afternoon) a monday morning hearing for change of custody.

You're dealing with an alien, hon. A wayward alien who is only concerned with himself.

YOU have to do two things right now. 1)file for divorce, then go to court and see judge or his/her assistant and get emergency hearing and 2)get another restraining order barring your angry and potentially dangerous wh from your home, from contact w/you or the kids and 3)you figuring out that you need to STAY AWAY from him.

You might be like I was...I was a victim of his emotional abuse during the affair (after all it IS emotional abuse and most likely you've lived through emotional trauma and maybe monthsof gaslighting)and thought I wanted to remain married to him and that I loved him. Nah. Just like Patty Hearst, I was in love with my captor/abuser and got over that reeaaaall quick when I left him.

You need a dark plan B/D and a restraining order. The only way you should ever talk to him again is if this guy realizes he messed up and is MENTALLY ill, commits himself to long term intensive IC and maybe be hospitalized for it, and shows a repentant heart combined with a clean bill of mental health. Otherwise you move on, have a great new life with the kids and rebuild.

Wish I could say different.

Sorry L2L,

You have to first FILE for divorce then go to courthouse and try to get the emergency hearing, and maybe have your lawyer go with you or have him/her pull any strings necessary to do that.

What your wh is doing is calling your bluff, trying to get you to settle to whatever he wants, divorce wise, by holding your kids hostage/over your head.

Fwiw, my x tried that too and it lasted all in all about four days before I slammed his cajones into the courthouse doors. He never walked the same after that.

The oldest playbook in the world for a wayward male divorcing is to pretend (and ww will do this too) is to pretend they are filing for full custody of the kids when they have no way in hell to even do that in their ccrazy, fogged out, selfish, wayward lives. It is a tactic to make the betrayed spouse buckle and give in to whatever their whims are legally.

L2L, when I replied to your other thread I advised you to seek a legal separation agreement that stipulates custody and support. You didn't do that.

Without a legal separation agreement, there can be no charge of kidnapping of the children. Both of you have the right to see your children and have them with you. You do not have the right to require your husband to sign any agreement about anything to see his children. The fact that you do this along with your tendency to just up and leave with your children is not going to look good in the eyes of the court. It looks like you are trying to deny access to your children. YOU may feel it is justified, but the courst are FINALLY starting to acknowledge how many women play games with denying a father access to his kids. How many men do you think there are here that have been falsely accused, that read terms like "narcissist" and "bipolar" being bandied around by someone who doesn't have formal training. Don't end up on the wrong end here.

Now before people start jumping my butt about this, look at it from another viewpoint. How easy would it be for him to claim that, yes, they have problems and have arguments, and that, yes, he does drink but not to excess, but no he has never touched her in anger and wouldn't. That he has tried to meet her demands to recover their marriage, attended counseling that didn't go well because they ganged up on him. Do you see where I am going with this? That she got the RO so he couldn't see his kids, and claims he threatened her, and comes up with a bunch of pseudo-psychological gobbledygook to justify what she wants to do, which is have the kids to herself. That he wants to recover the marriage but not if she is going to continue to dictate terms to him.

L2L, I believe you, I really do. I don't know what you have contributed towards your situation and you really don't go into exactly HOW he is controlling, but I do agree your husband needs help. I don't think your marriage IS recoverable and it would scare anyone that your husband's main priority after the RO was lifted was to demand his guns back. Yeah, that would make feel invested in the relationship. But you need to do this the right way, which is to contact an attorney ASAP to get a legally enforceable separation agreement. You both could be made to have a psychiatric evaluation, and the court will determine what is in the best interests of the children. I doubt very much that your husband would be seen as one who could provide adequate care to a chronically ill child, so it would be pretty much a given that you would retain custody. Also, based on the evidence like results of a psych eval, it may be possible to get him supervised visitation.

Get legal help NOW, L2L, because this is a highly unstable and volatile situation you find yourself in.

Peachy, he already HAS the kids. I think she was asking if SHE could pick up the kids because he's already enrolled them somewhere.

You're right though, until there is an order in place, they BOTH have equal rights to the kids. If he has obtained an exparte (without her present) order, then she has to go to court to get the kids back. She hasn't been served with an order as far as I know, but if he gave the daycare center a copy of the order, then they're not going to release the kids to her because they have no way of knowing if she's been served.

L2L, you need to find out if there has been an order issued. If not, I'd be there in a heartbeat to pick up your kids.

i am beginning to believe he actaully hasn't filed anything! it was weird because i was at the sherriffs ofc talking to a deputy about what is enforceable or not if there hasnt been any serving of papers etc, and he gave me a lot of helpful insight with his experiences. he said it might not be possible to pick up the kids from daycare if he did not loist me as a party who can pick-up the kids, but if he filled out registration with my info as the mother then wo a court order saying i cant have them, more than likely they will allow me to take them. while i was at the sheriffs ofc, he called. he started to say "that's why i wanted to file for divorce" then he paused, backtracked and said "thats why i felt i had to file for divorce". interesting isn't it. so im not really sure if he has filed or not, anyone know if there is a way i can find out? i mean he said he filed on wednesday and i still havent been served

Yes, i know, but i had truly hoped he was going to give me the space i needed because he said he would. needless to say, i no longer believe a single work that come out of his mouth.

on a funny note, he called because our daughter had an itch and she told him and he told her to scratch it and then showed him she had poo on her nail...he called and told me he was freaked out and didnt know what to do. hahaha

WASH HER HANDS WITH SOAP!!.

ofcourse this leads me to believe he is not properly cleaning her bottom after going potty

Alot of the courts now have online lookups for court records. Unless a case has been specifically sealed then it's a matter of public record. Do a google search for "District clerk of _____ county online records." You will want to look under civil cases. Most of the time you can search by party name without the case number. Some courts even have access to the actual documents filed. If your courts don't have online access then you can go in person and request to look at the file if a case has been filed. You do not have to be an attorney or a party. Anyone can look.

yup, after checking the online court records, there was nothing there. so i got myself a lawyer and followed his advice, which was get the kids first and file later, which will be tomorrow. so i booked it down to the valley to get to the house where his mother was watching the kids for the latter part of the day after their trip to daycare for half a day. all went well at first...found he had changed the locks, again. rang the bell and i was let in w/o any issues. visited for a few minutes. then notified his mother that i was leaving and taking the kids. she flipped out, ran and blocked the door! so i calmly walked to the back door and she ran out front, got in my moms car and locked herself in (ofcourse i looked at my mother and asked why she left the keys IN the car). so she called the police, which i was 100% ok with because after checking online records, i called the court as i got into the area to double check that there were no orders. so the police arrive and his mother says all excitedely "she is kidnapping the kids. my son filed for divorce and he has sole custody." the officer asked her to produce the papers and she said she didnt have them but that her son did and he was on his way. he told her, "maam, i am not going to hang out and wait for him to get here" so then he asked me and i told him yadayada, officer called my husband who confirmed that he HAD NOT FILED. and some how ther order of protections issue came up between the officer and my husband on the phone and it turned out that their system has updated and the order of protection is still enforceable!!! i even showed them the dismissal paper, but they said it didnt matter! the Lord works in WONDERFUL ways. I know some of you must have been praying for me too!

i have my kids back and i will be filing for divorce and for an immediate custody hearing or whatever its called...wont be emergency because he is of no threat to the kids and i wont lie...speaking of, he told the officers while he was on the phone that i tried to commit suicide by slitting my wrists! so the officers asked to see. which i did and the officer said to H "there is nothing there". and i feel bad for his poor mother whom he lied to and told her i couldn't legally have my own kids. but from her reactions i believe the apple doesnt fall far from the tree...

Yay!!!!! Now just be careful and get an order in place. Don't underestimate what a WS .

Just got served. and you know what, aside from the fact that he requested sole custody and physical custody, i am relieved. i do believe i should be the primary custodian. (he asked that i pay child support and put in there there i was fully able and capable to! i havent worked in nearly five years and we all know this economy! ha!) i have raised these children practically on my own. he worked out of town for nearly a year...through the toughest time of the kids' lives too, when our son was constantly hospitalized and put on a feeding tube at 6 months old. so glad i have a lawyer to see today. i just cant see a judge taking kids away from a mother who has always been the caregiver, who has no "criminal" problems and has nothing to hide, and give sole and primary custody to the father who has a felony history who lost all parental rights to a child from another woman

omg...he is mental, he filed and i just got served and he wants me to go see our marriage counselor tonight. with him.