Why haven't you spent any time together? Where is he?

Seven years ago, he started smoking. I asked him over and over again why he smelled like smoke. He knew how I felt about smoking from the very beginning of our relationship. He lied repeatedly saying it was other people in his office that smoked and he just hung around outside with them on breaks. Eventually I found a pack in his car and he couldn't deny it anymore. I guess he thought that since I knew about it that he didn't have to hide it anymore and he would smoke in front of us all the time no matter what I said or did. It repulses me to kiss him after he's had one and his teeth are gross. It's a real turn off for me.

Well he uses this addiction to sit outside and isolate himself. It's not just going out to have a smoke and come back in. It's HOURS of being outside, me taking care of the kids, house, everything, and sitting inside alone. I have made excuses to be out with him, but he continues the behavior without regard of my feelings. I have made excuses to go out to talk to him, to get him to come in, to convince him to stop, you name it. But the addiction is keeping him away from the rest of us. Eventually I guess I stopped trying to get him inside because all my efforts failed.

Over the summer, while the weather was good, the kids and I were all outside with him and we spent time together. We didn't really talk because all of the neighborhood was around, but we were together. Since it's gotten cold, I haven't tried much. I just can't take the temps from the weather or my husband. He uses it as an excuse to push me away. On the EN questionnaire, he wrote that he wanted me to spend more time outside with him. And keep the house cleaner. Both things he never said to me. He's never once invited me to come outside with him. We used to sit inside and watch movies together or play video games or card games. Inside I can hear the kids and take care of them. Outside, they are on their own. They are the reason I've pushed him coming in.

OWH just told me WH told OW that we were separated. That's news to me.

hssh,

Did you read my second to last post?

I don't think your H is serious about NC. Just a verbal agreement to NC is nothing to hang your hat on. I would ask him to commit to those thing I posted above and see what his reaction is. It is impossible to move into Recovery mode when he isn't even serious about NC...

I know, that's why I'm still talking to OWH. To verify if/when they are talking. He hasn't agreed to NC yet, but we will be discussing this tonight. I've already told him we need to talk, and he will be staying inside tonight. I am not going to sit by and let her take my man.

Most/all of the lies cheating spouses tell are usually news to the betrayed. Part of the fantasy bubble they create.

Sorry, but this is quite common.

So we finally talked. Our EN Questionnaire said we were dissatisfied about the same things. He saw it as we were both very unhappy people. And yes we are, but we are upset about the same things, which means we are still on the same page about some things. I say "it's a bend," he says "it's the end." I say "i'm not giving up," he says "I'm not trying." I say "we can trust again," he says "we'll never know." I asked him for a date, UA on Friday or Saturday, he said he didn't know if it was worth it.

OW's kids told OWH that they were afraid Mommy would leave to be with WH and she called him by name! WH says he knows there is no future with OW since they live in different cities and neither of them is moving, but they continue to carry on the relationship.

We went over, again, the reasoning behind the exposure to family, friends, work, etc. He says that pushed him away. I explained the reasoning behind it and reminded him that as long as she is in the picture at all then there is no hope for us. I didn't tell him the details about Plan B, just that if it didn't end soon, we would have no choice but to leave. He could spare everyone any more pain by ending things with her and working on the life he has here, but he's not ready to do that.

So I put all my effort into making this place the best place in the world to be. That's all I can do for the next few weeks. I have a keylogger in place on his PC, and OWH supplying phone records. Am I missing anything? Exposure--check. Fulfill his needs--check. Have a plan--check. Keep informed--check. What else?

hssh, I am sorry to say this, but you need to prepare for Plan B. I would start laying the groundwork for that, because he is not anywhere close to recovery.

*sigh* I know. I am prepared for Plan B, but because of financially problems (which is part of the reason we're here), it can't be done till the school year ends. I cannot move my kids to a different school again. If they were in daycare, I wouldn't put it off, but they've had too many changes in the last few years. It will have to be when we can move in with my parents in June--unless I get a job before that. Gotta stay hopeful about something...

hssh, you are not going to last that long. He should be asked to move out. He would still have to pay all the bills. I would ask him to move out and get a legal separation so he has to pay the bills. You won't last until school gets out and there is no reason you should have to move because of his affair. This is a pretty typical situation.

We're barely living paycheck to paycheck as it is. There isn't even anyone he could stay with since all our family is out of town. He wouldn't be able to pay the bills here and in another place, or stay with a friend and help out with expenses. A lot of his buddies are staying with their parents already for various reason. He really doesn't have anywhere to go. My only option is to move out of town with family. OWH and I have devised a plan to shed some light for them. Plan A to the max if you will. We are keeping each other informed and pumped up.

This isn't your problem, it's HIS. Never shield a WS from the consequences of his choices. This IS a consequence of his A. Do NOT shield him from this. This will help wake him up to the reality of what he's choosing.

DO NOT MOVE OUT. This would be your husband's DREAM because then he is free to carry on his affair and can say that you "abandoned" him. DO NOT DO THIS. That is not how Plan B works.

I would advise you to seek out local family law advice.
If you click on you county government website, sometimes you can find helpful links to free legal advice.
Look under "Family Services".
Or "Women's services".

You need to know for certain what your rights are for spousal support and what your husband's obligations are for child support.
You need to do this research proactively.
You need to have this knowledge in your pocket, just in case ....
Do not wait to educate yourself in this matter.
It is imperative you do this research right away.
Do this for yourself and for your children.
This is not a tool to punish WH, but a protective shield for you and your kids.
Do this right away.

Once you know what WH's financial obligations will be should you separate, then you do not worry one second where HE will live. He has obligations as a married father.
OBLIGATIONS.
If he has to rent a room with the old lady who cooks liver and onions every day, that's HIS problem. If he has to sleep in his car, that is his problem.

I bet you have no idea what WH's financial OBLIGATIONS are. Do you?





Shed some light about ....? What?
We're all ears. (mostly)

Ok, our state doesn't have a legal "separation," just married or not. There are some provisions to take, but basically, since he has been the sole provider for so long, he would be obligated to continue that unless he files something with the court asking otherwise. Given the circumstances, idk if they'll let him out of his financial responsibilities to us. I could not find any definitive information, but will continue to look.

Shedding light on how good they could have it. OWH and I have both lost weight and have been doing all we can to make the home life and ourselves as attractive and caring as possible. We're both ready to fight for our spouses and rekindle what was once between us. If it doesn't work, on to Plan B.

Proceed with extreme caution and solid boundaries.

There are many stories of OWH and OMW conversing too much, offering care and concern, meeting. In other words, meeting each other's emotional needs.

What a huge mistake.

hssh,

I know that you are trying to Plan A him some more before giving him any more "demands", and I am not saying that you need to threaten him or tell him about Plan B (you should never do that!)...but I think it is important that you plant the seed NOW that there are conditions/expectations of him such as the ones outlined earlier, NC letter, transparency, working on the M.

Have you mentioned to him that you would be willing to move in w/your family if you two separate? I hope not...

Ok, I am NOT having an EA with OWH. That would be stupid and counterproductive. Our conversations are ONLY for information and planning. I have told WH that don't want to leave, but if there is any hope for reconciliation, then there needs to be NC, transparency, and effort put into the marriage. I still think it can work, but he is not so sure. I asked him out on a date for this weekend and am waiting to hear back. I have told him about moving in with family simply because he knows how far away that would be and it's my only place to go. I have not told him I will leave if things don't change by X date, but he knows I could leave if I wanted to. I have not filled him in about the details of Plans A & B.

hssh, I would let him know that he needs to leave if he won't commit to the marriage. I would be having that conversation with him NOW so he can make plans to move out. Plan A is only supposed to last 3 to 4 weeks so you need to prepare for this. Let him know this will not work unless he is committed to the recovering the marriage and ensuring your protection.

As it is now, he doesn't believe you have any standards, so he will be inclined to simply live down to your standards. You are much better off setting high standards because you have really nothing to lose if he won't meet them. There is no plan here now, and no plan is a plan to fail.

Now is the time to hold his feet to fire before he becomes too used to your acceptance on any terms.

Ok, so keylogger worked. Instead of calling each other and us seeing their talks, or me hearing him through the wall, they are now IMing on yahoo. Saw him call her his princess (which is also part of her screen name), and saw them tell each other how much they love each other and make little symbols to each other. WH admitted there was no future in it. But he is still addicted to the double life and this fantasy.

How do you meet someone's needs during Plan A when they won't let you anywhere near them? How do you show you do care and that you want it to work when they get home after dark and hide after that? Is that his point? He's so disillusioned that he doesn't want a marriage? He'd rather throw away kids, a family, an entire way of life for a thrill ride? When it's not a secret, how can it be so much fun?

hssh - I'll be reading the answers you receive with interest. I exposed this week and she's only talking of divorce. She's concerned about our son, that seems to be her primary focus right now. At least that's a shared concern for both of us. She's not going to le me anywhere near her. I just hope that the exposure is having the desired effect - she admitted to being sad/depressed last night.