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#2475933 02/12/11 06:18 PM
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I have been with my husband for about 16 years and married for 10 years. About 9 years ago he had a 6 month affair with a co-worker. I was devastated, but we stayed together and I recovered. We had two kids and we were so happy for a long time and I began to trust him again. Then he lost his job about two years ago and had to take a job with a schedule that was opposite my schedule. We only saw each other on weekends. As a result, we grew apart somewhat, but he always assured me that he would stay faithful. I still knew the situation wasn't good, but we didn't have much of a choice at the time and I decided that we were too happy when we were together for an affair to be a threat. Anyway, he did have another 6 month affair last year. He says it was mostly an emotional affair because he was lonely and needed sometone to talk to because I wasn't around. He says they didn't have sex, but they kissed and touched sometimes. I just found out about it a few weeks ago and I'm in so much pain that I don't know what to do with myself. He has ended the relationship with the other woman (I think) and taken a new job so that we see each other every day, but I still don't think I will ever be able to get past two affairs. He knew that was my biggest fear and what kind of pain it would cause and did it anyway. I love him so much, but how could I ever forgive him? Please someone give me some advice!! Am I a total idiot for trying to stay in the relationnship?

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Hi hurt, welcome to MArriage Builders. The problem with your marriage is that it has not been affair proofed. Apparently he has very inappropriate boundaries around women and until that changes, you are looking at a future of more affairs. The key is to change the environment that led to the affairs.

He is probably in the habit of discussing his personal life with women, which is a big no no. Does he have opposite sex friendships?

And lastly, I would expose his affair to your family and the OW's husband, if any. The more people who know about the affair, the less likely he is to do it again. Is the OW married? If so, does her husband know what your husband has done to him?

Please pick up the book Surviving an Affair and follow the program outlined in there. I will follow with a quote by Dr Harley about what it will take to recover your marriage.

Welcome to Marriage Builders.

Originally Posted by Dr Willard Harley, founder of Marriage Builders
"The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.
Requirements for Recovery from an Affair


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by Dr Harley
One topic is loss of trust. How can a spouse ever trust an unfaithful partner again? My answer is that the spouse should never have been trusted in the first place. I shouldn't be trusted by my wife, and I shouldn't trust her. The fact is that we are all wired for infidelity, and under certain conditions, we'll all do it. The way to protect your marriage from something that has been common to man (and women) for thousands of years is to recognize the threat, and do something to prevent it from happening. Basing a marriage on the Policy of Radical Honesty and the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward preventing an affair. Being each other's favorite leisure-time companions, and not being away from each other overnight are also important safety measures. Meeting each other's most important emotional needs, avoiding Love Busters and building an integrated lifestyle, free of secret second lives, are all ways to affair-proof your marriage. With these measures in place, we end up trusting our spouses because an affair becomes almost impossible to achieve.
here



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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He doesn't have any female friends. Apparently the other woman took an interest in him and he liked that. He is a little shy, so he doesn't get much attention from other women.

The other woman is 25 (much younger than me!) and is not involved with anyone else. Based on what he has described, she originally pursued him. She told him about her sex life, etc. and he liked the attention. He says he loves me and didn't want to cheat, but couldn't withstand her. She is a horrible person and I've told her so.

We have told our parents and our kids about the affair. His Mom never knew about the first affair so she is very upset. I hope that alone keeps it from happening in the future.

I will never trust him again. I realize that was my biggest mistake. He does have some overnight business trip responsiblilities at this new job, and I'm quite worried about that, but mostly I just want to figure out if I want to even stay in the marriage or not!

Last edited by hurtagainbydavid; 02/12/11 07:21 PM.



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Originally Posted by hurtagainbydavid
Based on what he has described, she originally pursued him. She told him about her sex life, etc. and he liked the attention. He says he loves me and didn't want to cheat, but couldn't withstand her. She is a horrible person and I've told her so.

What he did here was allow her to meet his emotional needs by having inappropriately intimate discussions with another woman. THAT is why he couldn't withstand her. If he had appropriate boundaries, it would have been impossible for her to get close enough to meet his needs. He is in the habit of doing this, apparently, since he is on affair #2. If he doesn't realize that the problem here are HIS boundaries he is headed for another affair.

We all know men we can or can't talk to because of their boundaries. That is where I would start. He can't blame his poor boundaries on these other women. And if he won't take accountability, then he won't change. And if he doesn't change, you are not safe and shouldn't stay married.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by hurtagainbydavid
The other woman is 25 (much younger than me!) and is not involved with anyone else.

Have you verified this independently?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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From what I've seen on her Facebook profile (before he de-friended her), she is about 25 and not involved with anyone else.




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Originally Posted by hurtagainbydavid
From what I've seen on her Facebook profile (before he de-friended her), she is about 25 and not involved with anyone else.

Does she live with her parents?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Yes, actually she does live with her parents.




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I ordered the book you suggested and my H agreed to read it with me. He wants to work on this marriage, so that's good right?

I also talked to him about boundaries with women and he is willing to change that behavior, but he wants to know what would be too friendly. Would talking about work, weather, or the kids be okay? I said not to talk to women at all, but he thought that was unrealistic. I agree, but don't know where to draw the line. And if I do draw a line, how will I know if he crosses it? Any suggestions?




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Originally Posted by hurtagainbydavid
I ordered the book you suggested and my H agreed to read it with me. He wants to work on this marriage, so that's good right?

I also talked to him about boundaries with women and he is willing to change that behavior, but he wants to know what would be too friendly. Would talking about work, weather, or the kids be okay? I said not to talk to women at all, but he thought that was unrealistic. I agree, but don't know where to draw the line. And if I do draw a line, how will I know if he crosses it? Any suggestions?

Talking about business matters is ok. Talking about weather and his children is personal conversation that should be off limits.

I am concerned that you have to define this for him because that means HE is not analyzing this himself and taking active steps to clean up his boundaries.

Why is HE not doing this himself? Why is he not critically scrutinizing his own behavior to see what he did wrong?

Quote
And if I do draw a line, how will I know if he crosses it?

What is *HIS* line? Ask him how he will clean up his boundaries to make sure you are protected and this doesn't happen again? What is HIS PLAN to make sure this doesn't happen again?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by hurtagainbydavid
The other woman is 25 (much younger than me!) and is not involved with anyone else. Based on what he has described, she originally pursued him. She told him about her sex life, etc. and he liked the attention.

This is the kind of behavior that is inappropriate. And if your husband cannot handle female attention in the workplace, then perhaps he should get a job where there are only MEN? What if another 25 yr old pursues him? Apparently, he is not mature enough to handle this and probably should not leave the house without a chaperone.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by hurtagainbydavid
I ordered the book you suggested and my H agreed to read it with me. He wants to work on this marriage, so that's good right?

I also talked to him about boundaries with women and he is willing to change that behavior, but he wants to know what would be too friendly. Would talking about work, weather, or the kids be okay? I said not to talk to women at all, but he thought that was unrealistic. I agree, but don't know where to draw the line. And if I do draw a line, how will I know if he crosses it? Any suggestions?
Hi, hurtagain, welcome.

I think it's great that he wants to 'work' on your marriage. But he needs to back those words up with some serious, committed action.

You understand that his boundaries with women are poor. That needs to be addressed first. Tell him he has a goal he has to meet whenever talking to other women: when the conversation is over, neither one of them should know anything of a personal nature about the other. No hobbies, no info on children, no favorite TV shows, nothing.

My H had poor boundaries with women. Didn't matter who it was - it could have been the bank teller, the checkout girl at the grocery store - he just had to 'entertain' them with jokes, chatting, etc. I asked him to make it his goal to conduct his business with the person, leave the store/bank, and the person wouldn't be able to describe him. He was very surprised when he started - he never realized how hard he'd worked in the past to engage these women and draw them in. Oh, sure, he said it was just his personality - but his poor boundaries, personality and need to engage in banter was what got him into an A in the first place.

I would suggest you role-play this with your WH. Set up a pretend scenario, where you're the office girl and he's the co-worker. Have a mock conversation and drift into personal matters, like "Oh, David, did I mention to you that my son scored a goal yesterday?" How would he reply to that? "Good for your son! I'll bet you're proud. Hey, you can leave those reports on my desk. I'm having lunch with my wife and will probably be gone when you're finished with them."

If your WH is serious about tightening his boundaries, he needs to be honest with you about his progress.

Last edited by maritalbliss; 02/13/11 08:56 AM.

D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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We have a lot of friends that are couples. How should we handle situations where we are hanging out with other couples? Can he talk to women in a group setting and when I am there?




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Originally Posted by hurtagainbydavid
We have a lot of friends that are couples. How should we handle situations where we are hanging out with other couples? Can he talk to women in a group setting and when I am there?

Does he behave appropriately around women when you are there? Apparentley he does not have boundaries when you are not there. What about when you are there? Does he flirt with women?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by hurtagainbydavid
We have a lot of friends that are couples. How should we handle situations where we are hanging out with other couples? Can he talk to women in a group setting and when I am there?

hurt, what will he do to protect you in the future? What is his plan?


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Here is a plan by another poster here for reference:
Originally Posted by RisingFromAshes
Opposite Sex Protection Plan

Group A- Serious threats
Includes- OW, OM, any and all past lovers, old girl/boyfriends even if no sex was involved in the relationship, any known strippers prostitues or similar occupations, people we know to be generally flirty or have bad boundaries
Response- NO CONTACT with OM and OW, for the others avoid contact if at all possible and if there must be contact keep it as brief as possible and tell your spouse about it immediately. If you find yourself thinking about dreaming about or fantasizing about someone like this discuss it with your spouse.
Group B-High Threats
Includes- Anyone that is "needy" or desiring help especially if they are having marital problems, anyone that you find physically attractive, anyone who seems to be flirting with you or desiring to be around you more than is necessary, childhood friends of the opposite sex, this also can include anyone in your spouses family that you find attractive, you must be honest both with your spouse and yourself as to who is a threat.
Response- do not help anyone of the opposite sex with marital problems or allow them to help you with yours without your spouse present, do not have friendships with people of the opposite sex. limit contact with these people to nothing more than is needed to be polite, do not discuss life, hobbies, interests or anything else with these people
Group C- Threats
Includes- Anyone that is old enough or still young enough to be sexually active.
Response- do not be alone with them, do not flirt with them or allow them to flirt with you, do not be overly friendly with them and remember that even an unattractive person can become attractive to you if you let them meet EN's. They should not be on your Facebook etc and they should not have your contact info (phone number, email address etc)
Group D- Low Threats
Includes- the elderly and people too young to be considered sexually mature
Response- Can be alone with them if they need assistance but try and have someone else present if possible to avoid accustations of abuse or molestation
Group E- No Threat
Includes- dead people and people that are known to be gay or blood relatives
Response- pretty much anything goes, they are safe

But it's important that your WH understand what emotional needs he was letting OW meet and how to prevent that into the future and write out his own plan. Has he read any of the MB materials??


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Originally Posted by hurtagainbydavid
He says they didn't have sex, but they kissed and touched sometimes.

Have you asked him for a poly? I have a hard time believing this and would insist on a poly & STD testing if I were in your shoes...


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SusieQ #2476274 02/13/11 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by hurtagainbydavid
He says they didn't have sex, but they kissed and touched sometimes.

Have you asked him for a poly? I have a hard time believing this and would insist on a poly & STD testing if I were in your shoes...

I agree with this. Would he take a polygraph to prove this claim?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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He is usually friendly with women even when I am there. I don't think he realizes what he is doing though. He is just a very nice and friendly person. I never even thought that much about it myself before. I have told him that when we are with other couples I would prefer that he talk to the men and avoid conversations with the women. He agreed that would be best.




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