Again? Well then Harm he has such little respect for all that work, you just stay dark then. After he moved out and left the first letter all crumpled up,(it really didn't leave a way back like the second one did), I felt you needed to be dark and be certain that he had some healthy way to deal with himself. So I pushed another letter.

Now that you KNOW he is being a child again, you gotta let him crash on his own. You can't pin the B letter to his lapel like some little kid from a home for waywards.

I am glad that he read the letter. I don't think you owe him anything but clear communication and the offer to work on the marriage and at this time he just rejects that.

I have been on the edge of my seat for months waiting for him to get a good plan B letter, so we could talk about your recovery, and it would have satisfied my need for fairness. In both what I know about life, my belief in MB, and the reason we are all here also. Without him getting a way home, all advice would be wrong, based on a faulted foundation.

You see what I mean in that?

Now it is truly a dark well laid out plan B, Yay Harm. I hope your WH will get help for his issues, and will learn how to communicate,(half of what IS listening), but he is not ready to work on the marriage yet. If he is still in the drinking, fantasy, boo-hoo stage, he still has to work on himself anyways.

Keep working on you, understanding yourself and what makes you tick, along with time to just be happy. You have the capacity and I will be looking forward to watching you grow and gain even more wisdom as time moves on.
freind

It clear that you don't want that man back, thats what the letter is for, to give him that message.

I just read the rest of the thread and everybodys advice. All good. So no need to repeat it.

Alanon for you would be a good idea, you can never get enough education and you will find others dealing with family members there who are lost. It doesn't mean you will have to do ANYTHING towards marriage reconciliation. You are not his keeper at that level, that is his own battle he is responsible for.

Hello Peeps

H turned up at house last night when I was on my way out (sober).

He shouted at me from outside the house that unless I let him in, he was going to break in and change the locks and that he is paying the mortgage and has rights to access to the house. He also said he refuses to use the IM and that we need to be adults, and that using my IM is childish. I ignored him and stayed upstairs.

He parked his car outside the house and sat there for ages, so I got in my car, left the house and went and stayed at my sisters.

I know for sure I love him but that I am tired of his approach.

My only option is to get the house on the market to be sold or to be rented out. As long as I live there, he will never leave me alone. I know that I will recover through continued Plan B.

Sometimes I just wish I could stand up and say, Harmony file for divorce move on with your life. It is fear that is stopping me from doing this, fear that I am going to break down realising that I have made a mistake. Fear of letting go. Fear I make the wrong decision. I know that if we got back together it would never be bad, we would probably recover ish, but I am not sure we would ever be 'great'.

Same old same old.

Time is passing by and I am no further forward. Bit depressed about it all today.

Time for you to read Mimi's story. The house was a turning point for her. I believe it will be for you as well.

Thanks Kayla, I have read Mimi's thread many times and I think your right. It was a definite turning point for her.

I think the house is providing a big emotional connection for me, without that I wonder.

I want to move on, I really feel I want to get the house on the market and file. I am scared of tieing up all the loose ends. I know he is not in my life or hasn't been for 3/4 months but I am scared of lettting go.

JL - if you are around, I would appreciate a little perspective on these thoughts. I do love him and it will be painful for me to end this.

Harmony,

I've been following along here just haven't had much to say. However, your request for perspective did trigger a few things for me.

Let me be candid and I am sorry if this hurts.

One of the things I've been trying to decide is "who is the bad guy here?"

1. You had the affair, you moved out (if I recall correctly) and then came back.

2. He tried to handle it and handled it badly, trying to punish you, having his own affair.

3. You pushed him out of the house, which apparently he pays for, and you have gone plan B.

You seem to be confusing plan B, with filing for divorce. At least it seems this way from some of your posts.

So as I look at this, who is the "bad guy". Well, the answer is you both are. You both have made a complete mess of this, and frankly things weren't that good before your affair.

I've seen your picture, you are an attractive young lady, you are successful in your career, you have many friends, and certainly you have no trouble finding things to do over the holidays or anytime for that matter.

Let's throw in a few other things. You have lost your Dad very recently, and it would appear your H has a tendency toward abuse if he is not abusive.

Let's see any other things I can throw into the pot here? I'm sure I have missed something.

So you asked for perspective. And here is where I struggle with you. You can divorce and I am sure you will lead as good a life as you decide to make it. That really depends on your boundaries, your goals, and your integrity. You control all of that. Couple that with your career, your obvious ability in social circles, and intellect and I see no problems.

Yet, making a decision like this while mourning the loss of your Dad is not a great idea, in fact it is not recommended by anyone.

It is not clear to me that you have really faced what you did to your H with your affair, partly because of the push back from him and his desire to punish you. But, that needs to be resolved.

Your H's behavior has been poor in response to your affair, and perhaps before the affair. He has not shown a lot of inclination toward self-examination, at least from what you have written.

YET...you love him and apparently he loves you. And here is the rub, neither of you acting in a loving manner toward the other and you need to for this marriage to continue.

I sense the house is a bone of contention. Perhaps removing it from both of your lifes is a good thing. I also wonder if you would not do both of you a favor by moving on and letting each of you chose a new life. Yet, there is the admonition above about doing something so drastic while in grief.

Frankly, Harmony I don't sense you working to hard to discuss things with your H. I know you are in plan B, but he is not honoring it and plan B is until you decide to divorce or he decides to change his behavior.

I wonder if a sit down with a lawyer or two present might be best. I mean air it out and see if there is a way forward for this relationship. A lot of damage has been done by both of you. A lot of learning in introspection must be done by both of you, has that occurred. I know on your side it has with perhaps more needed, I have no clue about your H.

I can also see why he is mad. He is making payments on the house, but must pay to live elsewhere. Most of us guys get a bit "testy" about such things.

Harmony, here is something I can tell you for certain. It will be "painful" for you to end this marriage, and it will be "painful" for you and your H to save it. There is no avoiding the pain given the pain that has already occurred.

So please don't make this choice based on "pain", but on what is right...for you and for your H. I think you need more data, but you seem to be doing fine without him in your life and that in itself is data.

Sorry I cannot really offer you any concrete help.

God Bless,

JL

I agree with JL Harm, his whole post was objective and also the way I see things as they unraveled.


The highlighted sentence is all you can ever do, but the whole quote is true.

Still no hurry, many guys say the same things about IMs and being adults. You still have control of the choices in your life.

Hi JL

Thank you, your post has helped me a great deal. I know you said it was not of concrete help but it has given me some things to consider.


Yes I agree, that none of this would have never happened if I had not had the affair, so in that way I am the bad guy in all of this. I behaved appallingly. I acted selfishly and without thought to the man I loved. I did it because I was not convinced who I was with was enough for me.

I also agree that this is not the right time to make a decision, every now and again I get a little frustrated at not moving forward, but I guess I am moving forward as I am in Plan B and Plan B is self recovery. Even if to everyone else I am 'stuck'.

I guess the reason I have become a little 'panicked' is because I know that my H is starting to break under Plan B and will want to reconcile and I am nervous that it is the wrong thing for me to do.

You said:



I don't think I have had chance to face what I did with the affair, as soon as he found out he was off doing his 'thing'. We never sat and talk about it, he just acted out. I think I have only really just accepted it and learnt to live with myself for it, I don't think I will ever forgive myself I am still very ashamed about it, uncomfortable telling other people about it.

I agree with you about H paying for the house and not living in it, I know he is not paying anything at his mum and dads house but it is still not the point, I would not like it, so I know that this needs to be sorted. That either I need to move out and rent the house or it needs to be sold. This is difficult for me, I have moved so many times in my life I am desperate to settle, but also with the loss of my father I really struggle with having to move, figuring where to go, sorting out mortgage...ect....Big pants time?





I won't make a decision right now, as you said I am in Plan B but I think my H is very close to talking reconciliation so I may not be able to avoid it.

I am doing fine without him, I have started to make new friends, I seem to be bouncing out of the bed in the morning, I know that I will be OK. I guess I fear cutting the ties silly things like changing my name, old photos of us together, him with his new girlfriend, dividing our things...That scares me. Letting go really.

One question you asked me very early on is that what does my H do to sustain me? What does he bring to my life? I have started to really think about this lately. I know I can forgive him for his behaviour of the last year and for the OW. I just think what does he really bring to my life? Just before the affair I felt he added stress to my life, always ill, doing irresponsible acts, business in crisis. I took on the biggest amount of responsibility sorting the bills, holdiays, things to do, ideas, making sure he was ok ect...Not only that but I was the one who had been travelling, had adventures, learnt things, tried new things. I guess I have never had a strong male role model in my life who has taken care of me, and that I am use to being independant, not relying on a man, taking care of myself and them.

However, from what I have learnt here, I am ready maybe for someone who will come along and take care of me aswell, show me new things, bring something into my life.

Thanks JL and Constant.

While all of that may be true, that is not the real cause of why you had an affair.

I say this because in the future, you may likewise not be convinced that H or another man is enough for you.

What then?

Hi Delta

Ofcourse itwas that and my lack of morals/boundaries.



That could happen, I don't have a crystal ball. I like to think that would not happen.

Harmony,

You said a few things I thought I would respond to. You said

Others might not agree, but I firmly believe life is a team sport. I think marriage is a team sport. Two things always set my teeth on edge. People who talk about everything being shared "equally" and being "too independent". The first group are really tally keepers, and tally keepers always seem to want things equal, so that they get "their share" of whatever. Marriage is not about "equal" it is about balance, strengths and weaknesses being balanced off of one another. I hear "too independent" and I hear frightened, I hear unwilling, I hear unclear on the concept.

My point. People who are "independent" in a marriage are often too frightened to really commit and take the risk. They are often weak people masking their weakness with independent behavior, or simply people who are focused on themselves.

I am giving you this lecture ( a very brief version of it) precisely because you think your H is about to meet your Plan B requirements and try to restart the marriage. I cannot tell you what he will say or do, but I know what you had better be doing, thinking of your boundaries, realizing that you must let people in, and also realizing that if your marriage is to make it you two must become a team. You don't/didn't view it as that, hence there was bound to be a sense of entitlement on your part. He felt you would cover for him, so he just did what he wanted. You two fed one another's weaknesses by not recognizing each others strengths.

A good marriage has balance, just as Harley talks about balance between the "giver and the taker." A good marriage maximizes one anothers strengths, and helps minimize the weaknesses. A good marriage is full of care, and sharing.

I suspect you two could have that, IF...you both decided to really look in the mirror and change many things. If either of you are not willing to do this, then the marriage is over.

I cannot and will not tell you which is right for you, because life is non-linear, and only small changes on each of your parts can lead to great changes in the prognosis of this marriage.

Get your head right, start to decide what you really need, and realize he could be the man to give you that IF...

Please think about it.

God Bless,

JL

Right on JL, strengths and weaknesses, team effort.

My life is just the opposite, Harm. How polar opposites we are, yet our sitch are the same. I had strong role model who always took care of me, my dad. He still does to a certain extent now.

I have never had to really take care of myself. I'm good at taking care of other people (kids, spouse, ill parents, ill friends, ect...).

I look at you Harmony and I think "WOW, she's really got it all together!" You can take care of youself, you have a career, you have what seems to be an exciting life...

I have always dreamed of being that kind of woman. I was raised in a very traditional sorta house. My dad worked, my mum didn't. My dad took care of bills and yardwork, my mum took care of kids and housework. It worked for them. THAT didn't work for me. But how was I to know that?

You are ready to have someone take care of you; and you should have someone at least TRY to take care of you. Maybe your WH is ready to become that man. Only time will tell.

All I know is this: YOU ARE AWESOME!!!

Mitzie

P.S. I love,love love Jaoquin Pheonix...I could just eat him up...yummy!

HARMONY.....

WHERE ARE YOU GIRL??!?!?!?

What's up, sweet Harmony? I hope everything is going well for you.

Hi MB Friends!!

Just checking into say hello!! Been pretty busy lately I have an assignment going on with my interior design course, bought a super duper new sports car and been spending time with friends and family. Still feeling great wondering when it all comes crashing down!

Everything is good and thanks for your messages. Been thinking about JL's post lots and have a proper update tomorrow to give on WH and Plan B.

Hope your all well.

Harmony

Hi Ms. Harmony,

Just got caught up on your story, but I need to ask you a question.. when you are ready I will ask it,

Thanks,

Tom

Proper update on WH and Plan B? Any time you're ready, I am.