Cannot be said any better than that.

Yes JL I do know we can not work on this marriage by "sitting down" and working on it.

That's one of my concerns about him saying the things that he thinks are the right things.

I understand we can't really do anything to really start working on this marriage until he returns.

So this is what Im doing now.

Contine to work on myself and my improvements.
Im really trying to get this anger under control and to control the AO.
I am continuing to take care of my health and hanging out with friends.

I will continue to sending him loving messages and when we do talk on the phone keep it light and loving.

When he returns I will continue Plan A for and then snoop. I will also be able to do the stick and carrot of plan A.

Then cross that bridge of Plan B or continue to make a loving marriage with MB.

Also get my finances together so if the time comes Im prepared for Plan B.

My first thing Im working on now is to stop the AO.

I hope Im on the right track.

BH,

The first thing any BS is told is that the WS' actions need to match up with their words. What you are starting to do is compare words with actions. He says he loves you and then you see on facebook some picture of him that makes you doubt him.

I believe you and I discussed a question I asked you. Do you have AO's at work? Do you AO your boss? Do or would you AO a surgeon that is about to operate on you? I believe the answer to all but the last which I did not ask you was, "NO, you don't."

If you did the last I would question your sanity.

So the thing I will point out to you, is that you can and do control your AO's...when you want to. Am I right? If that is the case you simply need to address why you don't want to with your H and others that you may AO. My guess is because you know you can get away with it, but in reality you cannot get away with it BH. Every time you do an AO, you change someones perspective of you and usually not for the best.

My father used to have a saying he was fond of His caution to me was to choose your enemies carefully because you are going to have them with you for your life. Oh! and he was NOT a mild mannered man, he could AO with the best of them.

BH, I like your plan so far, but any time he does something that affects your love for him tell him. Don't threaten, just tell him, hearing/knowing/seeing that hurts me H. You need radical honesty in your marriage and it is not honest to gloss over things that are not good or that are good for that matter. If he does something that is good, tell him as well.

But, BH, you cannot hear people if you are yelling. You cannot see people if you are crying. And the times you really need to hear or see, are the times when something feels most threatening to you. Keep your eyes open, your ears open and your mouth SHUT. There is a 4 to 1 ratio going here, use it in that ratio. 2 ears, 2 eyes, ONE mouth.

I think you will find that controlling your AO's will be easy when you realize that you do so now, and that you are more effective and powerful if you control them in cases where you have used them in the past.

This isn't a matter or control, this is a matter of being stronger and more focused. No AO's equates to strength, power, and a better ability to protect yourself and minimize the pain you feel.

Think about it.

God Bless,

JL

As usual your words hit it on the head.

You're correct that I don't have AO at work.

My first husband and my kids and my now WH have all told me I get this "tone" in my voice that drives them all nuts. I also would find myself wanting to start a fight because I wanted to fight.

I know that is so not healthy. I also used to blame all my mistakes on others. It took my husband now to tell me that I never take responsibility for my own mistakes. That fell on deaf ears because it was like calling the kettle black.

I need to learn to walk away when I feel like Im being pushed. One thing I know for sure is when I push my WH too far and past that point of no return. I also know that I can only control myself and not let him push me past that point.

What I find difficult is that it seems like my WH likes to fight and then he pushes my buttons and bam I react.

I also have to control my taker when Im doing 90% of everything and Im getting no help.
I do tell him but I need to do it without DJ or start off with YOU do this or that.

Something Im not proud of is I am verbally abusive and this is something Im really getting a hold of and my WH has taking the most abuse from this.
I am working everyday on these things and I still have some work to do.
I know that my WH and I may not be together in the end but I do know I WILL become a better person.

One question when I was exchanging texts with his ex last week she told me alot of things that my WH has done to me that he did to her.
How do you keep giving him another chance when the writing may already be on the wall?

There are alot of things that he has done since he has been with me that he never did with her and she said he never would. For example he has got help for his PTSD and he has got on medications for his blood pressure and other health issues and he is seeing a therapist for his PTSD.

How do I know Im not just getting my hopes up? Am I just blind to the truth or am I seeing that these really are improvements and changes correct?

BH,

You asked You really don't you know. It is your choice so don't get mad when he fails the chance. You are doing it for you not him. If you one day woke up and said, "That's it, I'm done." Then he gets no more chances.

This is part of addressing your anger. You blame others,because you don't have the guts to take the blame for YOUR decisions. You are with him because YOU want to be with him, not the other way around. Face it, this is YOUR choice so don't get mad at him for your choices. Are you seeing where I am going here.

You failed to address a few things I said, but let's get back to this. I posted to someone here a comment that really should be something you should think about.

I believe that "self-esteem" should really be "self" "esteem".

You must have a self before you can consider working on esteem. Most folks don't have a self (boundaries, moral guidelines, a sense of who they are, what they stand for, and how they want to be treated and how they will treat other people). You need to work on your "self". That means accepting the consequences of your actions, inactions, and decisions. Don't blame others.

You will find that as you develop a "self" your anger will go away because the frustration will go. Why be frustrated when it is you that has to take responsibility and do something to correct whatever is wrong. This is boundary work taken to the next level BH.

I grew up in a military family and the proper answer to my father was "yes sir, no sir, no excuse sir." Not exactly that, but when I went into a military college guess what the correct answers were. The same. Why was it important for my father to drum into my siblings and I this approach. You cannot lead if you cannot follow, you cannot solve problems until you face them squarely, and frankly no one like someone with no honor. That was his view. Surprise it was the view of where I went to school, and it was the view of the military.

I look back all of these decades later and realize they did me a huge favor, and I am trying to pass it on to you. Accept the blame for your decions/actions, then learn from them. I sincerely believe as you do this your anger will go away.

Will you be frustrated with other people, your work, life? Yep you sure will, but as you gain a self, you won't feel so defensive, you won't feel as frustrated.

I posted to you that your best defense is to be quiet and look/listen. This isn't a "yes but JL..." type of statement. There is no "but..." in this. Do it, and you will learn.

BH, what is happening is only periphrally related to your H's behavior, this thread and why you are here is very clear. It is for YOU to learn, and grow. As you do, many of the things you worry about will diminish in importance and you will be able to see what really counts and thus make a much better decision about your marriage and your future.

It is time to grow up BH, you have children to model for, children and eventually grandchildren to teach and rear and you are not ready any more than you are to love your H whether he deserves it or not.

Work each day on your LB's, your DJ's and your "self" make it reflect the person you want to be and can be. When you complete that task you will be someone that can look in the mirror with "esteem" for yourself. And others will hold you in high esteem as well.

Please think about this. I look forward to your response.

God Bless,

JL

I went back to your previous post and I think I get what you were trying to educate me on and I apologize that I didn't address it, the part about listening.

You're correct that I need go do a big job on listening. I don't listen and then I get mad when someone is trying to point something out to me.

My WH says to me all the time "do you think over talking me makes you right?".

I do want to improve myself and before I can work on my marriage I must fix me.

So before I start pointing the finger at my H I need to look at 3 pointing back at me.

I also get it when you say that if I start fixing the self in me that alot of my anger will go away.

Yes JL I will do these things you have enlightened me with and there are no "buts". Im done making excuses and I am done blaming others for my mistakes.

My list of things to work on keeps growing and I don't spend my time dwelling on the holes in my marriage because I still have so many in myself.

Thank you sir for your continued wisdom and guidance that you provide for me.

BH,

You said

Actually your list should be shrinking. There is a famous quote that I tell the post-docs and other researchers that work for me.



Think about this a moment. You are trying to master and define your "self". What must you do? Not make endless lists of things to address. You need to look at all of the things and place them in categories, and take the categories and really evaluate them into to something that is simple for you to address.

Consider the "Golden Rule". What makes it "Gold" is that it is all encompassing. "I will treat others as I would have them treat me." Now doesn't that pretty much define how all us should behave. It covers ALL situations, it covers all responses, and because it is so simple it can be a "rule."

How do you do this? You act with "grace" (Love that term, it has such power). You learn who you are and how you want to be treated, what you value in people. Look at the people you admire and watch them interact with others. Look at your bosses or bosses bosses. People in those positions (unless they own the company) have learned how to handle people without many if any AO's.

Frankly, you simply have to stop giving yourself permission for the AO's. But, BH I am going for something deeper here. Your AO's are a symptom of the issues. Why do you give yourself permission, what drives them, and what do you hope to accomplish?

You learn more listening and watching, but also pick certain people to listen and watch so that you can learn. Don't keep adding to your list, start to organize it and simplify it. OK?

God Bless,

JL

You're correct as usual.

Yes my list should be getting smaller. I guess Im still beating myself up for the mess I've created.

I will stop giving myself permission to have AO. Im not allowed to have them again and I had my first test today with my H. He kept pushing me and wouldn't accept my apology and I remained calm. He asked me why I like to fight and I asked him how do I like to fight? He said sure you are staying calm but you like to fight.

I really was confused by this. Because I admitted I was wrong and apologized and addressed that he had a right to feel the way he felt. He kept pushing asking me why I did it. It finally all came out that he felt like I was out running around because I picked up more days and hours at work and went to church.

He really has no trust in me because of what I've done.

I know I handled it with grace and I feel so good that I handled it the way I did.

I guess what I mean with my list I meant my health, my anger and my marriage and my finances.

I do have them in categories and work on each one each day. When I have A set back I tell myself get up and try again.

What also I meant by the list keeps growing is that I feel like I have so many things that Im working on that I feel overwhelmed. My husband needs me for everything and I feel like I'm doing everything for him. My taker keeps peeping out when I have all my own junk to deal with and my DD.

BH,

Has it crossed your mind that if you change your behavior, he no longer has excuses to behave as he wants? IF you gain your "self" and set your boundaries, and start to be the woman you know you can be, he is screwed...he doesn't have you to blame for HIS behavior. What is a man to do, that wants to miss behave and cannot blame it on his wife?

Are you beginning to see the power of this? You won't have to make a hard decision BH, because you will obtain the data you need to make the decision and it won't be hard.

Just keep working on you and what you value in you. You didn't fight him, he fought with himself. Isn't it cool when you when a fight, and didn't have to fight?

Your anger is because you feel powerless, you have power BH lots of power.

Also you need to sort out what you did in the past especially with first family with what you have done in this marriage and what you are doing now. You can only apologize for the past, but you can make the future better, that you do have control over.

Hang in there AD.

JL

JL,

Yes it felt so good to not fight with him and to tell him "you're right and Im sorry that I did that to you". In the past I would have tried to turn it on him or blown up or told him to grow up and that he had no right to feel the way he feels.

I've learned that he has every right to feel the way he does.

So you asked me to figure what I did in my last family and what Im doing now.

Well I definitely put my job and my schooling and my kids above my husband. I told myself that I was doing the right things because I had the job and he couldn't keep a job.

I would use my anger whenever I was mad at him for quitting another job.

I now know that my anger is just an excuse to use against people that make me mad instead of stopping and talking to them like a rational adult.

I see the error of my ways and am working with my DD Because she is demonstrating the same anger issues that I have. So Im working with her and talking to her about the signs that start with the anger and what to do with it. I also talk to her about how Im sorry that Im the one that has taught her this.

Im continuing to work on these issues. I know I need to take one step at a time.

Another question JL. If I continue to do the right thing and not fight with him and he continues to fight with himself and I start to see that he is trying to blame me for what he is doing. How do I handle this? Is there something I can say that would be full of grace?

BH,

You smile "gracefully" and say: "H when you want to quit fighting with yourself and justifying your actions, let me know." And then simply walk off.

I don't think I did a good job of conveying what I was trying to say to you. Don't carry your issues from your previous marriage into this one. I know you regret what you did in your first marriage, and I know you regret how it has affected the children. However, that regret is for those who were affected.

Your current relationship with your H should be a different issue. Deal with the issues of this marriage with the man you are married to. Don't bring in issues from the past. You cannot atone for them by how you deal with your H. Separate the issues, other than the common ones such as the AO's. That is what I was trying to say.

It is very good that you are teaching your daughter these things. Have you asked her to remind you when she senses you starting to get wound up? You two could teach each other a great deal. A young woman that knows here "self", acts with Grace, and knows here goals, is a woman that is truly gifted.

You could give her and your other children this gift as you find your "self" and start to act with Grace.

BH, children can teach us sooooo much, if we watch and listen to them.

God Bless,

JL

Damn how do you do it JL?

I hope your working towards that BH, I know you can be.

Yes Im working towards becoming graceful and I have learned alot from my DD.

So my WH is coming home for good so now we will see.

Im a little concerned on staying calm when he pushes my buttons.

We've had a couple of conversations as to where he gets short with me and I've been doing really well and staying calm and apologizing if Im in the wrong, but Im having a tough time keeping my taker at bay.

It's like he wants to fight and says things to start a fight. I keep saying Im not going to fight with you. I also ask him why you want to fight and he said he is just anxious to get home and doesn't want to ever be apart again.

So is there anything else I need to stay focused on or work on?

BH - consider this; when you react to him "pushing your buttons" in a negative and/or AO/DJ/SD manner... you are rewarding that behavior by giving in to it.

Put on your big girl bloomers, and if button pushing is the game, walk away until normal conversation and negotation can resume.

Thanks HHH for telling me straight up. Yes I need to be an adult and not let him push my buttons.

So he has been home for a week and things were good. He tried to push my buttons and I did ok and walked away.

So he gets an email from some girl that he used to work with. He told me about it and it's an email I have passwords for.

So he says I tripped because I told him it bothers me that a woman emails him and when he emails back he does talk about her boyfriend, who my WH is freinds with also, but then proceeds to tell her what good people they are and invites them to our house if they come to the states.

Here's my question. He thinks he did the right thing by telling me (which I did tell him after I calmed down thank you for telling me).

I told him it hurts me for him having other female friends and that married men shouldn't. He told me if I was to post exactly what was in both emails that people here on MB would say I was over reacting. I know it's wrong but how if he doesn't stop having wayward mind can this marriage be saved? How and what else can I do?

Bump to get some responses.

How can I ask him to have strong boundaries without doing it in a "teaching" way or lovebust?

Do I tell him that if he can not give me these boundaries that I don't see how this marriage will survive? Is that a SD?

He thinks because he tells the women about his wife and how much he loves me that he is setting boundaries?

I'm not so ginger on this. I was/am pretty cut and dry on the issue you are addressing, BH.

FWW can have male friends, or a marriage with me.

No phone calls, no emails, no social networking, no breaks or lunches at work, none of it.

Any opposite-sex friends are to be mutual friends of us as a couple, or not at all. No personal/private contact is to be made, period.

I don't know how to state it without it coming out as an SD/DJ or whatever... hopefully someone more eloquent has a suggestion...

Thanks HHH, that is what I have asked of him and I must not be doing it correctly because he said I'm trying to be controlling. I told him, no I will do whatever I need to protect my marriage.

It made me think that if I have to try and teach him how to have boundaries, is there any hope?

I don't think it is a good thing that he won't have boundaries to protect our marriage. He thinks because he finally got rid of his email that he had for 20 years and gave me passwords finally that he has boundaries. I agree,it took me 5 years to get that information and access to his phone. It's the female relationships that are the enemy to our marriage right now.

I tried to show him some advice that MelodyLane was giving another poster about weak boundaries and he said "yeah that is with a co-worker and not some gal that is over 1500 miles away and I'm friends with her fiance also". How do you rationalize with that? I just get frustrated when I feel like I'm hitting my head against the brick wall.

I know I can't change him and I know I can only change me and that is what I'm trying to maintain.

I also said that I must feel protected in our marriage or we have no marriage and he took that as a demand.

I don't know... other than trying to be a constant and pleasant companion.

Just my belief, but if you focus on making a loving, romantic marriage - get him off the cot-dang computer and away from the e-mail - he will have neither the time nor the desire to interact with anyone else.

I know that even when I float toward withdrawal, I would rather spend time with my FWW than with anyone else, doing anything else.

The golden ticket is keeping everything in intimacy.

Yes you're corect I need to remember this is not a sprint but a marathon.

I guess I'm a little over anxious because now that he is home I want to "fix our marriage now".

I need to see the small steps he is making and no lovebusting (I still could continue to improve this).

How do you not get frustrated when you feel like you're the only one doing the work?

I just want to make sure I am doing everything I am able to do and I'm not missing anything.