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He had best focus on removing any doubt that he is contact with the OW and is making every effort to recover your marriage and trust. Instead of him telling you what step you are on he should be demonstrating in words and deeds his commitment to you.
Letting the OW's family and friends know of the affair should have no impact on him, in future do not tell him what you are doing. If he came to you and asked why you had exposed the OW you would have known they are in contact now you have lost that opportunity.
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hurt, he is wrong on so many points I don't even know where to begin. But that is ok, if he doesn't agree with exposure. You don't need or expect his agreement. He is not expected to like it. Finally, he's upset that he is supposed to be O&H, while I keep doing things behind his back without discussing it with him first. He says it's hypocritical. Show him this. It will make him feel better: "There are two situations where I don't recommend radical honesty or the POJA: Abuse and infidelity. In the case of infidelity, if one spouse suspects the other, I have gone so far as to encourage hiring a private detective to help investigate, using spyware, keyloggers, putting a gps on the car, and all sorts of other snooping methods. If its found that the spouse is not guilty, I encourage revealing the snooping to the spouse. If found guilty, I encourage keeping spying techniques secret indefinitely. " Radical honesty and the POJA do not apply to matters concerning his affair. So tell him to relax. He should NEVER KNOW the things you do in this regard in advance. I am very concerned that he is trying a little too hard to manipulate you into stopping anything that protects you against his affair. I would strongly suggest you have a GPS on his car and a VAR in his car and any other method of defense. Your husband is very foggy and very defensive. He sounds much more interested in protecting his affair than his marriage.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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The WH is mad again that I sent messages to 8 of OW facebook friends (including her brother). he keeps saying that i'm making matters worse by doing that because they have ended contact and this just keeps bringing things back up over and over. If they are really done with contact, is this just making matters worse? One of the reasons for broad exposure is to ensure that the eyes of their worlds are on the affairees. If everyone knows it will be harder for them to resume contact. This is another way to protect YOU and your marriage.
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You can also tell him that the more people who know, the more people to hold him and the OW accountable, so he should view this as a good thing. To whom should it be exposed? I recommend that family, friends, children, clergy, and especially, the lover�s spouse be informed. Exposure in the workplace depends on several factors.
There are many reasons for this recommendation, but the primary reason is based on my belief that the more people know about what I do in my most private moments, the safer I am to others.
Whenever a betrayed spouse tells me that they�ve just discovered their spouse�s affair, my advice is almost always the same: Let others know about it. Tell your children, family, friends, clergy, and especially the lover�s spouse, if they have one. And this is even to be done during what I call plan A (making an effort to make as many Love Bank deposits, and as few withdrawals as possible). The problem some people have with that strategy is that it conflicts with the goal of plan A because it�s likely to cause massive Love Bank withdrawals. An unfaithful spouse almost always considers such exposure to be a worse act of betrayal than their affair itself. But the alternative, helping the unfaithful spouse to keep the affair a secret, is enabling the addiction, prolonging the agony. In the long run, making the affair public knowledge without any forewarnings, threats, or bartering (which by themselves can create massive withdrawals) actually reduces the number of Love Bank withdrawals made by the betrayed spouse. It�s my opinion that the advantages of immediate exposure usually far outweigh the disadvantages. While most affairs die a natural death in less than two years, there are some that take much longer to die. That's one of the primary reasons that my first rule in surviving an affair is to never see or talk to the lover again -- even if the affair seems to have died a natural death. An affair can rekindle after it seems to be over. And to guarantee complete separation between the unfaithful spouse and the lover, extraordinary precautions must be taken, such as providing radical accountability and transparency. In many cases, I've encouraged couples I've counseled to change jobs or even move to another state to help create permanent separation.
Another suggestion I make to a couple struggling to restore their marriage after one of them had an affair is to make the affair public. Everyone should know what happened -- children, relatives, friends, and especially the children and spouse of the lover -- so that the affair is exposed to the light of day. What often makes affairs appealing is that it is done in secret. Most affairs become very unappealing once everyone knows about it.
So whether an affair is a one night stand, or has been going on for years, the basic rule for ending them are the same -- extraordinary precautions to guarantee permanent separation. But I will admit that the precautions used for long-term affairs are usually more extraordinary than those used for short-term affairs. I've helped many spouses overcome affairs that have lasted over ten years, but none of them have been easy.
Best wishes Willard F. Harley, Jr.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thanks for the feedback everyone. Unfortunately I think he still has feeling for her and that's why the exposure upsets him. He doesn't want her to think of him as the biggest mistake of her life, which I think she does. That being said I am also still uncomfortable with just carpet bombing her. Yes, she is an evil [censored] that ruined my life, but at some point I have to just say enough is enough. Her parents know, her brother knows, and a few of her friends now know. I see no point in sending more fb messages. All of the important people know. Right?
As far as him still being in contact with her, I just dont think he is at this point because I had mentioned to him a few days ago that I was thinking of carpet bombing her fb friends (at the time I didn't know I wasn't supposed to tell him). If he was still in contact with her, wouldn't he have told her that so she could block me from seeing her friends list?
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Thanks for the feedback everyone. Unfortunately I think he still has feeling for her and that's why the exposure upsets him. He doesn't want her to think of him as the biggest mistake of her life, which I think she does. That being said I am also still uncomfortable with just carpet bombing her. Yes, she is an evil [censored] that ruined my life, but at some point I have to just say enough is enough. Her parents know, her brother knows, and a few of her friends now know. I see no point in sending more fb messages. All of the important people know. Right? I agree with you, hurt. You have done enough. And I do think that he is very protective of the OW which is the only possible reason he is objecting so much. I hope you keep a close eye on him in the future.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thanks for the feedback everyone. Unfortunately I think he still has feeling for her and that's why the exposure upsets him. He doesn't want her to think of him as the biggest mistake of her life, which I think she does. That being said I am also still uncomfortable with just carpet bombing her. Yes, she is an evil [censored] that ruined my life, but at some point I have to just say enough is enough. Her parents know, her brother knows, and a few of her friends now know. I see no point in sending more fb messages. All of the important people know. Right? I agree with you, hurt. You have done enough. And I do think that he is very protective of the OW which is the only possible reason he is objecting so much. I hope you keep a close eye on him in the future. Thanks Melody. I have been keeping a close eye on him and he is always where he is supposed to be, but I will definitely keep doing that. Now, I have a question about the letter that my WH was supposed to send the OW to end the affair. He never sent a letter because he said that she told him she never wanted to hear from him again and she stopped all contact before he had an opportunity to send the letter. Should he still send the letter? It seems silly to send a letter saying "don't ever contact me again" when the other person already said that she doesn't want to hear from him. Advice?
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All of the important people know. Right? Exposure is intended for all the people in the affairees lives who can apply pressure to end the A. It's non-productive to go emailing everyone, willy-nilly, if you know you've already hit the prime targets for exposure. Hurt, stop telling your WH what your plans are, okay? You'll undermine yourself by doing so. He doesn't need to know you're snooping, or getting ready to expose to anyone, etc. This will not help you.
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Now, I have a question about the letter that my WH was supposed to send the OW to end the affair. He never sent a letter because he said that she told him she never wanted to hear from him again and she stopped all contact before he had an opportunity to send the letter. Should he still send the letter? It seems silly to send a letter saying "don't ever contact me again" when the other person already said that she doesn't want to hear from him. Advice? Your WH needs to write this letter as an official notice to OW, and more so as a physical show of commitment for YOU that he has ended the A. Of course he should write it. You read it, you approve it and YOU mail it.
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Thanks maritalbliss. I know I need to stop telling him stuff, but I don't want to keep secrets from him. I know this sounds silly, since he kept secrets from me for a whole year...but I am not a person that lies or keeps secrets and I'm not going to start changing the person I am just because he is a d-bag. I am determined to be a trustworthy person with integrity and morals, regardless of what he has done to me. If this means that he will go on screwing me over, then so be it. I will not let it change me because the "me" I am proud of being is still the only thing my WH and his OW can't take away.
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Thanks maritalbliss. I know I need to stop telling him stuff, but I don't want to keep secrets from him. I know this sounds silly, since he kept secrets from me for a whole year...but I am not a person that lies or keeps secrets and I'm not going to start changing the person I am just because he is a d-bag. I am determined to be a trustworthy person with integrity and morals, regardless of what he has done to me. If this means that he will go on screwing me over, then so be it. I will not let it change me because the "me" I am proud of being is still the only thing my WH and his OW can't take away. Well, you need to stop this poor definition of keeping secrets post-haste, my friend. It's not an issue of 'keeping secrets.' You are disclosing your strategy for killing the A to the enemy. They will think fondly of you, after your divorce, because you were so nice to let them know what you were planning so they could work around you. If you were leading a battle campaign, would you cross enemy lines and meet with the General on the other side to let him know what your plans were? You are in a battle with a wayward and his affair partner. Your husband is not currently in mental residence right now. Your desire to be an upstanding citizen of truth and fidelity is honorable, but will gain you NOTHING when dealing with waywards. Please replace this faulty line of thinking with a mental strategy for saving your M.
Last edited by maritalbliss; 02/19/11 07:05 PM.
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If I have to choose between myself and my marriage, I choose myself. I am willing give up my marriage and move on to greener pastures. What I'm not willing to do is become a deceitful person that will do anything to keep an a-hole of a husband. This marriage is not worth that. If that is what is needed for this marriage to survive, then I want out.
I will continue to check up on him often every day and I expect him to pass the lie detector test and ask him to share his passwords and share information, but I will not become a deceitful person by planting a GPS etc. etc...
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I appreciate that, but: if you are recovering your M, you shouldn't be dwelling on whether or not to choose between yourself and your M. You've already chosen your M.
Hurt, you have to understand something. Your H's A has permanently changed the complexion of your M. It's no longer a pure, undefiled M. And that's okay. You can make a better M.
You may need to follow up on your H for some time, maybe forever. If the two of you are on board with recovery this A may be the one dark blot on your otherwise fantastic journey together. But it is a fool who becomes complacent.
I can tell you this: my H is probably the most remorseful wayward you will ever meet. But I will always retain the right to know where he is, who he is with, and what he is doing. He knows that I will (and do) employ whatever means I choose to use to accomplish this, however much I need to do it, in order to know that I am safe.
I never should have trusted him 100% in the first place. You never should trust your H 100% either.
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This is his second A (that I know of). Maybe the problem is that I haven't fully committed to fighting for this marriage. What am I fighting for? More pain? What are the chances that he will actually change? This is hopeless.
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This is his second A (that I know of). Maybe the problem is that I haven't fully committed to fighting for this marriage. What am I fighting for? More pain? What are the chances that he will actually change? This is hopeless. Hurt, I understand your frustration. But you know you want this. You want a healthy marriage. And you have to protect your marriage. Your real question is: Do I want to be married to ANYONE. I think you do. I just think you're tired and feeling worn down right now. I understand that. I was there - I could have left my H and made a pretty good life for myself and our children. I chose to recover. Is that harder? I don't know, because I never tried another way. But I don't regret my choice.
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I definitely think staying together is harder. Especially in my situation where my H has had more than one affair. The first affair was excruciatingly painful for me. I cried for months and had nightmares for years. Once I finally recovered from the first affair, the thought of him having another affair was my biggest fear. I repeatedly told him that it was my biggest fear and he promised me over and over for 9 years that he could never do that to me again. He knew all of this and still decided to have another A. It was the ultimate betrayal. I just don't know if I can get past it. If he could do this twice, then he could do it again in the future and I wouldn't survive it again. Wouldn't leaving be better in my situation? What good could come of staying together?
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I just don't know if I can get past it. If he could do this twice, then he could do it again in the future and I wouldn't survive it again. Wouldn't leaving be better in my situation? What good could come of staying together? hurt, I totally understand. And you absolutely have the right to decide you will no longer live with your WH. I don't think anyone would criticize you for deciding that it isn't worth it. Make that decision when your mind is clear and you've had time to really examine all of your options. Which I probably didn't need to say - you're a smart cookie.
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Thanks maritalbliss, but I don't really feel like a smart cookie right now. I feel like a fool. You are right though, I should wait to make a decision when I'm not so hurt and angry. I owe my kids that much. On the bright side, he did write the "no contact" letter yesterday and I mailed it today. He did a good job on the letter too. He told her that he loves me and wants to rebuild our marriage. He also said that he thought the affair was wrong, he regretted it, and that they should never contact each other again. He knew I was mailing the letter today and he didn't even really seem to care. Is that a good sign?
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Ok, so my H and I took off of work last week and spent the whole week together talking things through and going to counseling. I have decided to stay with him. We have followed all of the rules of plan A...no contact, exposure, writing the no contact letter, O&H, spending 15 hours per week together, and meeting emotional needs. We are also in the process of reading "His Needs, Her Needs." It seems to be working. My H has committed to the marriage and I haven't found any contact with the OW (via phone, email, text, etc.) and he is always where he is supposed to be when I check up on him. What I'm wondering now is how many couples plan A actually works for in the long term. The affair is over, but now I'm worried about another affair 5 or 10 years from now. I think it might make me feel better if the success rate of the program is really high. Does anyone have any idea what the success rate is for this program?
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He knew I was mailing the letter today and he didn't even really seem to care. Is that a good sign? Did you read what was written or are you telling us what your husband told you he wrote?
Me: 36 FWW: 36 1 son born in Dec 2009 - confirmed mine through DNA test 1 daughter born in Nov 2010 Together: 13½ years Married: 10 years
PA/EA: January 2008 to July 2009 FWW left for OM: 01/28/2008 FWW returned for 9 days: 04/2008 FWW returned 05/21/2008
......
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