It has been a while since I visited this site. I will give a short synopsis of my history.

My husband had an affair with a woman he met on a cruise we took together. When I could not get him to end it I took your advice and contacted her husband and later her employer. That was the end of it, but I think my husband is still in that fog. He seems to think that he needs to feel that head over heels love again. He claims he never had it with me. We have tried the MB home study course and spending more time together. I have been reading like crazy trying to find an answer.

We have been married 32 years. The affair was ended two years ago. I have forgiven him, but I don't think he can forgive himself. He used to be a devote Catholic and now he tells me he doesn't believe in God. He has changed so much since the affair.

After threatening me with divorce over the last few years, he is now contemplating moving out to see how it goes. He doesn't think we should try more counseling. He just wants to find someone he can have the same feeling as he had with the other woman. Is this normal? How long does it take to come back to reality?

Please..... any advice would be welcomed. I know this is really brief, please let me know if you need more information.

Hi CAA, welcome to Marriage Builders.

I'm no expert, but it sounds to me like he's already "found" that "feeling" and has either renewed the affair or has started another.

Have you snooped around to find out for yourself? Perhaps you might think about clicking the "Notify" button on the lower right and having the moderators move this thread to the "Surviving an Affair" forum...

CAA, welcome to Marriage Builders. I agree with your husband. My suggestion would be to create that feeling in your marriage. That is what you can reasonably expect if you implement this program. The goal is to create romantic, head over heels love for your spouse.

If you are using the Home Study course and this is not the result, I would suggest you are missing something that is standing in your way. In that case, I would escalate this up a notch and sign up for either the online course [where you get an assigned coach - and they deduct part of the cost of the home study course, I believe, since you already have the material] or get phone coaching with the Harleys.

It is apparent that some key ingredient is missing here. Are you spending at least 15+ hours per week in UA time? Are you hanging onto some lovebusters? My H and I signed up for the weekend course in 2007 and had been using this program on our own for 6 years. But when we got to the seminar, they ID'd on the FIRST DAY that I had a huge problem with Independent behavior that was preventing us from using the POJA. We had missed this entirely. Finding and correcting this, however, made a huge difference in the love we felt for each other.

Are you absolutely CERTAIN there is no affair here? Is he still in contact with his OW?

He claims there is nobody else and I have not seen any evidence that there is another or a renewal of the OW. He has given me complete access to his email and phone.

I agree, there has to be something still missing. You talk of Independent Behavior.... that would be him. I have asked him to include me in his decisions.... purchasing hunting equipment, booking guided hunts and fishing trips, etc. but he tells me he doesn't need a mother. This has been a problem all our marriage. He said just the other day, "If I loved you like the OW, I would be willing to give them up. I just don't have that kind of love for you." My heart just broke even more hearing this. The only thing that keeps me in the game is God and the eternal optimist that I have always been.

We do spend time together every night, but I would not call it quality time. He usually comes home and grabs a beer. Takes a shower. Has a mixed drink. We eat dinner together. He mixes another drink and goes down to watch TV where he falls asleep. Not exactly anything exciting. I think I need to mix this up a little and plan some surprises.

I do meet his sexual needs which really puzzles me. I read in a book that if the sex is good, so is the marriage. He always tells me how good it was.

Appreciation is another one of his needs, so I make it a point to show him how much he means to me.For Valentine's Day I wrote a love note in the card telling him all the things I admire about him. He said he was really surprised and touched by it. I have also sent little texts telling him other things I like about him and positive memories of the past. I am trying to put romance back into our life. Maybe I just need to give it a little more time?

Please tell me what I am missing.

MB won't work with an alcoholic and by the sounds of it, your WH falls into that category.

Have you thought about going into Plan B? Do you know what Plan B is?

The thought had crossed my mind, but I was not sure what constituted an alcoholic. I am also aware of plan B, but that can be dangerous as well. Do you think it is time for that?

I believe you should prepare for Plan B and if your WH doesn't get on board with actively working on your marriage, that would be your option.

Did your WH put any EPs in place? Do you two spend 20+ hours together in UA meeting the four most important ENs every week?

Do you mean extra precaution? Yes I quit my job to travel with him. As far as spending time meeting each other's needs - no he will be the first to admit that I have put more effort than he has. This has made it all the more frustrating.

CAA, I would take this to a higher level and sign up for the online course. I think the problem is that you aren't really doing the program. You need professional guidance. If you do this program RIGHT he will fall in love again.

Thank you all for your advice. ML I remember your help from before and I know I would not be still married if it wasn't for you. I will try to convince my husband to do the online course. We both had been responding to the follow up emails with the home study course, but never received any feedback. I don't know if he will agree to trying the online program. I'll have to do some thinking as to the best approach.

OR...if he is resistant, get on the phone with Steve Harley and let Steve lure him in. The amazing thing is that if he would just USE this program, he would be in love! He would have what he wants. Steve is very logical and might be able to motivate him. Maybe try that first before you invest in the online program.

My husband says he is not interested in MB. He is really disappointed we did not get any feed back from the questionnaires. Were we suppose to? If I try to trick him into talking to Dr. Harley he will only get mad.

He says he doesn't want to have to talk to anyone and wants to move out. What do I do now?

Is the four drinks per night every night?

I had an 8-10 beer/night habit for the first two years of my marriage and functioned quite well in day-to-day activities except for my marriage. Looking at me you would have never known otherwise, as I didn't fit the image of what you'd normally call an alcoholic. Self-delusion is a funny thing.

You might see if there's a local AA meeting that you could drop by.

Not to beat a dead horse, but are you absolutely 100% positive that there isn't another woman involved here?

Yes he drinks that much every night. It is clear he is not happy. I think he is still not over the affair. He says he feels guilty and empty inside. I would like to have him see a counselor, but he thinks that by moving out he will have peace. I think it is such a waste. We have been married for 32 years and always talked about what we would do when the kids were grown up. I am not saying our marriage has been perfect, but the affair has made things worse. I have tried to move on, but how does he get past it? I feel that has to happen before things can get better.

Should I talk to Dr. Harley if I can't get my husband to talk with him or would that be unproductive? My husband said to me that he has to want to save our marriage. He said he just went along with MB, but never thought it would work. He doesn't even want to hear Marriage Builders again. He wants to move out and live his own life. I am beginning to think that the fact he never lived on his own before we got married is where that is coming from. He lived with his parents until he married me at 21. I have read that so much can be locked inside of a person for years. This is why I feel he needs to talk to a counselor.

Is there a possibility your H is depressed? As in going to a psychiatrist for a diagnosis?

My H was diagnosed years ago with chronic depression. He went to work every day and many days did just fine, but he would sometimes go into a long blue funk during which time he was down and not interested in anything--no sex, music, or any of his usual fun things, just could not enjoy life at all. He was unable to "pick himself up" and get happy again. The down times lasted two to several weeks, and oftentimes he made poor decisions during those times. Then he'd come back up again and be okay. Very very difficult to live with. When he began having angry outbursts constantly and all his coworkers thought he was a jerk and so did I, I informed him that he would get help or he was on his own. I found a doctor, and H went and got the help he needed. Meds are a godsend.

Anyway, you might want to look into his overall personality and see if any of the symptoms line up. If it is diagnosed depression, it will need to be worked on before any help is going to come to the marriage, in our experience.

51CD30,
I would have to agree with you. I think he is suffering from depression. I just can't get him to admit to it or even try seeing doctor. He has a very hectic job which I think helps to keep him going, but at night he drinks so that he doesn't have to think. He keeps his mind busy all the time with work, reading about sports and TV. I have been praying that he will finally see it. I desperately want to restore our marriage. I am afraid if he moves out that will be the end of it.

I read your info. We are both 52 and we have a 4th grandchild on the way. The difference is the affair happened over three years ago. I am sure you are right in saying that things will not improve until he gets help.

I don't imagine he will ever see it on his own. My H figured that most people must feel that way; that it was normal. He also had a very stressful hectic demanding job at the time which we believe now compounded the problem. He never took up drinking but he was morose and impossible to get along with most of the time. I could coax him out on walks or to see the children and that would help a little. I never told him he needed it; rather I would say I was going on a walk, etc and would really like it if he could come with me.

The first time, I was able to "push" my H to the doctor for help with the assistance of a wonderful married couple we know. We enjoyed a nice lunch with pleasantries, then after the plates were all cleared away, the man bluntly but gently asked my H how things were going and that they could tell something was wrong. H immediately teared up. It was after their kind intervention during which the man let H know he had to go on meds himself some time before (I hadn't known) for anger problems and that he was a much happier man now. The woman told him there was hope for him and with medical help, there was no reason for him to put up with feeling so bad. They were so gentle and gracious with H and encouraged him that he could feel so much better that he finally called the doctor (one I had already found.) Some of the newer meds don't have the same sexual side effects as the ones from years ago, and he felt much better a few weeks later. But it wasn't until AFTER he felt better that he realized how down he had been.

I wish you God speed in trying to get your H to get help for this. It's miserable to BE depressed, but it's also miserable to be WITH someone who's depressed.

51CD30,
Thanks for the advice. I contacted my husband's long time friend. He already knows about the affair and wants to help. He told me that my husband has not been himself and that they hardly ever see each other. He asked if my husband and I still go out like we used to. We don't.
He is going to get with my husband and see if in a private setting he will open up. The friend is as concerned as I am for his mental state and that he says he no longer believes in God. They used to spend a lot of time together before the A.
My husband does have a stressful job. I think the best thing to do right now is to refrain from talking too much and give my hubby the "peace" he wants at home. I'm not saying our home is not peaceful.... I'm just going to continue to try and meet his EN's and see what our friend can accomplish.
Thank you for all your help.