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He won't find it nearly so hard as soon as the OW's husband and family find out about him. The OW's H will help your H stay away. This is why you should tell the OW TODAY, Sandra. As you can see, affairs thrive on secrecy, so getting the word out will be helpful to him. This is a critical step, Sandra - you've not exposed to this skank's poor husband yet??
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Since we believe that WH knows about this site and may be reading your posts, it might help to just invite him to start his own thread. It is not helping you to worry about what he is reading on yours.
There are many vets that have been in his position and would be able to help him through the withdrawal and see that this OW is really NOT his "soulmate" and that this is NOT love.
Oak
ME: BS
HIM: FWS
Married 14 yrs together 17 years
DD: 8 & 13
D-DAY PA 9/16/08 and 12/13/08
OW: neighbor presenting herself as my friend.
Rebuilding
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oak, if he comes here and posts it will not be good for their marriage. It it not a good idea for a wayward to come here when his BS is posting.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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OK. Just wondering since we believe that he may already be reading Sandra's posts.
He seems to need help with the withdrawal.
Sandra, listen to the vets.
ME: BS
HIM: FWS
Married 14 yrs together 17 years
DD: 8 & 13
D-DAY PA 9/16/08 and 12/13/08
OW: neighbor presenting herself as my friend.
Rebuilding
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Sandra, please do not buy into the notion that your H has found his soulmate. This is a ridiculous notion. His "soulmate" is the woman he married. The OW is only an illusion of reality, and is a skank. "Soulmates" don't railroad marriages and families. This "soulmate" is a cancer lollipop covered in chocolate.
A great test of how deep the fog is for your husband is whether he indicates the OW is/was a "soulmate," or if she is a nasty, selfish pig.
As we continue to tell you, expose to the OW's H immediately. Your H will be a bit more leery to see this OW if her H is on-guard and watching his W's every move. My FWW's A was over almost instantly when the OM's wife found out. His life wasn't so free anymore when his W was checking his phone, email, and monitored his every move.
You may find out that the OW's H is a nice guy. And he doesn't deserve to be conspired against by you, your H, and the OW.
Me: FBH (2010) and FWH (1996): 40
Her: FWW and FBW: 40
2011: In recovery
A's are merely chocolate-covered cancer lollipops.
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Ok. I get it. Melody, he can't find support here? What about in the recovery section? It wouldn't help us at all? A big part of me thinks it might help if someone not me and our parents were to tell him he's deluded.
We should get the SAA book tomorrow so I hope that will help. I was thinking he could read that--wrong?
I am not going to lie on this board or pretend I've done something I haven't. I am hearing you all. However, I have not made a decision yet re: exposure. I do have a name now thanks to this thread.
I don't for one second buy into the soul mate. He's absolutely deluded. He can't see this woman for what she is or the truth of the fantasy he thinks was relationship. He is deceived. When I'm posting those things I mean he's having trouble as he sees it that way...not that she really is his soul mate or anything remotely like that.
Last edited by Sandra2; 02/24/11 11:29 AM.
Wife/BS (37) to H (37)
2 children, both 7 years old
Married 15 years
Affair of 3ish months, Disc. 2/20
NC letter to OW 2/22
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Ok. I get it. Melody, he can't find support here? What about in the recovery section? It wouldn't help us at all? A big part of me thinks it might help if someone not me and our parents were to tell him he's deluded. Sandra, he shouldn't come here until the affair is really busted up. Unless you want him to read what we tell you about putting a GPS on his car and a keylogger on his computer? Coming here while he is foggy will only result in some well timed 2x4's and the loss of this forum as a resource FOR YOU. We can't help you defend yourself from an affair if he is reading here. Kill the affair FIRST and then bring him here when you are ready for recovery. We should get the SAA book tomorrow so I hope that will help. I was thinking he could read that--wrong? Thats nice, but you have to first kill the affair and make sure that all contact is ended. That won't happen if you keep it a secret. I am not going to lie on this board or pretend I've done something I haven't. I am hearing you all. However, I have not made a decision yet re: exposure. I do have a name now thanks to this thread. Let us know when you have done this so we can help you move forward. There isn't much we can do if you help keep the secret for the affairees. That is like asking us to help you push a car up the hill with the parking brake on. I don't for one second buy into the soul mate. He's absolutely deluded. There is no such thing as a "soul mate," that is teenager gurl silliness.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Sandra, has he answered all your questions openly and honestly about his affair? Where did they meet, how long has the affair been going on? Where did they meet up? What did they do?
Do you have all the facts about the affair?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Sandra, has he answered all your questions openly and honestly about his affair? Where did they meet, how long has the affair been going on? Where did they meet up? What did they do?
Do you have all the facts about the affair? Yes, he has answered all questions, told me he initiated and how, told me how much money he was spending, gave me specific details re: where they met throughout and how (and when I asked were you meeting her when you told me x--he's answered honestly). He's told me what they did, what they talked about, and what she shared with him. He let me read the emails, read letters (and then shredded them), listen to all the voice mails (that he then deleted in front of me and erased her number from the phone). He left (voluntarily) the phone on the shelf when he left for work and it's remained there. He did tell me (when I asked) last night that he checked the phone before work to see if there was a message but he didn't expect there to be a message (there wasn't). I wish he had volunteered that information though instead of waiting for me to ask. He wrote a clear NC letter (I can copy and paste the text here if wanted) and it was delivered. Whether she read it of course I have no idea. He had told her previously (via phone) no contact and then she asked that he contact her on her birthday and he agreed. She suggested that when he called but they had discussed prior as a "we need to break this off but let's contact on our birthdays sort of thing" and she had told him that she still wanted him to do that because it was important to her and he agreed (this was the morning I discovered it). The no contact letter said he wouldn't be contacting her on her birthday or any other time in any way and he did not want her to contact him on any birthday or at any other time, place, or manner. He's self (I didn't suggest this) disclosed to people in his life who were very disappointed (some close male friends who were spiritual advisers and had believed he cut it off a month in). I disclosed to all family. He then followed up by talking to each person, apologizes, admitting it, and answering all questions they had. He's talked to my parents and his every night. I believe my husband intends to never speak to her again. I also think he's in withdrawal and this is going to be hard. I don't know if he can follow through but I know that is his intention.
Last edited by Sandra2; 02/24/11 12:54 PM.
Wife/BS (37) to H (37)
2 children, both 7 years old
Married 15 years
Affair of 3ish months, Disc. 2/20
NC letter to OW 2/22
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If you knew my husband in real life it wouldn't seem surprising that he's doing this/intending to follow through this quickly.
My concern is his ability to do continue to do that and whether he will be open and honest if he does have an issue at any point.
I do not think he's hiding anything right now.
I've read the information on tracking and snooping and I can't do those things anyway for the most part. His phone is a pre-pay per minute job so not high tech for spy ware or GPS, I can't do keylogger on a govt computer with tons of security stuff associated, I can't see myself (because of my own issues) having a VAR in his vehicle that I can regularly check and the contact they had wasn't in his vehicle anyway. I know where it occurred and knowing what was happening in his vehicle would only have caught some of the very recent phone calls.
Here is what we are doing: he is calling our answering machine as he leaves the house, emailing as soon as he gets to work (so I have exact times) and the same on the way home. He is calling me at all breaks and lunch, and staying on the phone with me during any errands that might occur after he comes home. I have all his email passwords. This stuff is to try to guard against falling backward.
Last edited by Sandra2; 02/24/11 12:52 PM.
Wife/BS (37) to H (37)
2 children, both 7 years old
Married 15 years
Affair of 3ish months, Disc. 2/20
NC letter to OW 2/22
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...When I'm posting those things I mean he's having trouble as he sees it that way...not that she really is his soul mate or anything remotely like that. My point exactly. If he believes ANY of this, then he is still deep in the fog. He will be pulled in her direction every day. He's hooked on a drug. It's extremely hard to resist, ESPECIALLY if the OW wants to chat with him on birthdays. How utterly ridiculous. Everyone here would agree that if you don't expose to the OW's H, your chance of recovery will be slim to none in the long run. You need the support of the OW's H to guard against the A. You may know your husband better than us here, but we know more about the behavior of waywards. We know what your husband is likely to do before he does. Don't think for a moment that your H is unique, or that the dynamics of the A are different in your case. Your H is following the same tired old drama that is written from the same script.
Last edited by Wisertoday; 02/24/11 01:27 PM.
Me: FBH (2010) and FWH (1996): 40
Her: FWW and FBW: 40
2011: In recovery
A's are merely chocolate-covered cancer lollipops.
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...When I'm posting those things I mean he's having trouble as he sees it that way...not that she really is his soul mate or anything remotely like that. My point exactly. If he believes ANY of this, then he is still deep in the fog. Yep, he is deeply deluded still about her and about the "relationship" he thinks it was/they think it was. This is why I don't feel I can be completely open about my reasoning and my hesitations at this point. I'm happy to share them with anyone who could give me thoughts privately but at this point, with my husband in this state and knowing of this site, I don't feel I can write anything on an open forum that might get back to her (as she would never, in his mind, hurt this family so he would tell her anything should he fall and they connect again. He's extremely trusting by nature and trusts this woman completely). I do have reasons for my decisions though that I haven't and can't post on this board.
Last edited by Sandra2; 02/24/11 03:50 PM.
Wife/BS (37) to H (37)
2 children, both 7 years old
Married 15 years
Affair of 3ish months, Disc. 2/20
NC letter to OW 2/22
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Yep, he is deeply deluded still about her and about the "relationship" he thinks it was/they think it was. This is why I don't feel I can be completely open about my reasoning and my hesitations at this point. I'm happy to share them with anyone who could give me thoughts privately but at this point, with my husband in this state and knowing of this site, I don't feel I can write anything on an open forum that might get back to her (as she would never, in his mind, hurt this family so he would tell her anything should he fall and they connect again. He's extremely trusting by nature and trusts this woman completely). I do have reasons for my decisions though that I haven't and can't post on this board. I understand about your hesitancy to post anything that will get back to OW if (or likely, when) they get in contact with each other. My wife made it a week after NC before emailing OM to "see how he was doing." There's another thread here by a betrayed husband--Lostintime is, I think, his screename. I think his wife made it maybe a week before texting her OM. Her parents came to visit and took her back with them today. Then there's another thread from HarleyDuck where his wife's OM supposedly broke it off with her and she just recently tried to re-friend him on Facebook. See, this happens over and over and over again. There's only so much you can do--if they want to get in touch, they will. But you've got one big insurance policy if you've got several people watching their behavior. Your best ally in this is going to be OW's husband. If you're worried that your husband will be too weak to resist OW's charms, get her husband involved so that OW thinks twice about charming your husband. Right now, she has no inclination to not contact your husband and she'll do it. But if she's got her husband watching her butt, she'll think twice as she has then found accountability.
Me (BH)
FWW
Married 2000, DS 8, DD 6, DD 2
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hi there,
I agree with Northwood........get all the help you can.......OW's husband.........fight it from both ends......
BW 56
WH 57
Married 25 years, live together for 2, dated 2 years before that.....
DS 23, DS 25
D-Day Nov 23/09
NC Mar 1/10
Working on Recovery
Grateful for finding Marriage Builders
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My concern is his ability to do continue to do that and whether he will be open and honest if he does have an issue at any point.
I've read the information on tracking and snooping and I can't do those things anyway for the most part. His phone is a pre-pay per minute job so not high tech for spy ware or GPS, I struggled with snooping because it didn't feel right to me. I know that probably sounds stupid given that I had just caught him looking me in the eye and lying for a year. However, once I started to look at things like bank statements, credit card statements, receipts, phone logs, I did find a few suspicious things. It helped me to discover the false reconciliation right away. It helped me to stop his back slide before it got too far. It was also instrumental in helping me to regain the trust when I could verify that what he said was true. Think about getting rid of that pay as you go phone. Think about stopping by his office unannounced or any other things you might be able to do. Being able to verify is very healing.
ME: BS
HIM: FWS
Married 14 yrs together 17 years
DD: 8 & 13
D-DAY PA 9/16/08 and 12/13/08
OW: neighbor presenting herself as my friend.
Rebuilding
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Okay just read GH31's thread and realize that I worded my last post wrong.
What I meant was that being able to verify FWH whereabouts and actions and knowing that he was being truthful helped me to feel safe again.
ME: BS
HIM: FWS
Married 14 yrs together 17 years
DD: 8 & 13
D-DAY PA 9/16/08 and 12/13/08
OW: neighbor presenting herself as my friend.
Rebuilding
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Just a bit of advice please if you could:
Spouse is in early withdrawal...seems to be doing better as the week progresses though I don't have my hopes pinned on continued improvement for him. I anticipate ups and downs and know this is very early in the journey on a long road.
He's told me absolutely everything re: the affair for better or worse because I asked him too. It's been no more painful or damaging than reading all the emails initially and I do think it's good there are no secret memories that he's holding with me unaware. He and I have been honest with family and friends as well.
He's talking to me outside of the affair confessions too--trying to share his thoughts and etc. We're spending lots of time together trying to meet needs as much as possible under the circumstances and build good experiences. I've also been honest about my feelings (not yelling, screaming...just calmly telling him how devastated I feel sort of honesty) and those conversations along with his sharing about the details, while I feel necessary in this process, have of course been negative in terms of love bank. But from his perspective and on the face of it we're adding positives too.
Here's the thing...I'm not feeling the least bit of anything positive toward him. Even those positive experiences are not helping me at all. I just feel wounded mostly. Anything intimate at any level (including emotionally), knowing he's "in love" with someone else, feel damaging at some level to me.
Any advice?
Last edited by Sandra2; 02/27/11 06:49 PM.
Wife/BS (37) to H (37)
2 children, both 7 years old
Married 15 years
Affair of 3ish months, Disc. 2/20
NC letter to OW 2/22
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Here's the thing...I'm not feeling the least bit of anything positive toward him. Even those positive experiences are not helping me at all.
Any advice? It will take quite a bit of time to restore the love in your marriage. There is a very narrow path to recovery. If followed,, you can have a romantic, happy, safe marriage. If not, if there is no plan for recovery, you will have a crippled version of the pre-affair marriage, which means your marriage will be more vulnerable to repeat affairs. I will post Dr Harley's words on this issue. My biggest concern for your recovery concerns the OW's husband. Keeping him in the dark like this prevents your H from recovering and it also increases the risk of resumption when your H is free to continue contacting the OW. Since her H doesn't know about the affair, he is free to continue to pursue her. No one is watching from that end. What is being done about informing the OW's husband of the affair? Your husband is dangerous to the OWH and his children, and he should be informed so he can protect himself. The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide. I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail. The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy. This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted. An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Melody, though it would be a huge stretch financially I'm actually trying to work out how we might have some counseling sessions via Harley/Chalmers. My main motivation, actually, is because I feel I can't be completely honest about the details of telling the her H in this situation here. I just can't put it all out on a public forum. I have shared with both close friends whose judgment I trust and both sets of parents about what has been suggested here and, of course, they know the details not shared here as well. So I do have advice from those who know but it might be helpful to have the advice of those who've "been there" or are experts and yet who also know all the details of our particular situation.
This isn't an excuse and I know it probably comes across, given what I know is history on this board and so many people coming through resisting advice, as excuses for not following the advice given here. It really, truly is a little complicated in this situation.
But I am listening, considering, and will (if I can manage financially) be getting their advice on that issue in our particular dynamics as well.
Do I just keep trying to meet needs even though I feel like crap doing it?
Last edited by Sandra2; 02/27/11 08:48 PM.
Wife/BS (37) to H (37)
2 children, both 7 years old
Married 15 years
Affair of 3ish months, Disc. 2/20
NC letter to OW 2/22
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I guess what it comes down to for me is I don't feel, no matter how much time we're spending meeting needs, that I can build something with him from my own emotional prospective while he still believes he's leaving his soul mate whom he loves. I guess I'm afraid he will always feel that way about her.
In actuality he has said that he felt the same way about me at first that he has felt about her. I think his hang up is that he feels she's not the same person and maybe she would have been a better long term fit even if those early feelings were the same with both myself and her. It's more a what could have been together with memories of what was that I think is his struggle.
Last edited by Sandra2; 02/27/11 08:53 PM.
Wife/BS (37) to H (37)
2 children, both 7 years old
Married 15 years
Affair of 3ish months, Disc. 2/20
NC letter to OW 2/22
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