Congratulations, Fred! I think you've had a real breakthrough here!

From your descriptions, I have had the feeling that this woman is just not all that enthusiastic about you. I even think that she WISHES she were more attracted because you are a very nice guy, but I don't think the spark is there.

I know that tomorrow is a big deal for her, being her 8th anniversary. But, shortly after that you need to tell her that it's been great fun, you hope you can always be friends, but that you're moving on in the dating department.

I guess that's the proper way to do these things. Of course, I haven't had a date in 27 years, so I'm not really sure.

Not to disagree with Kirb, but a different perspective on BR lady. I think she's simply not into Dating (like us here...). She's a little more casual about it. So why not leave her on the list of people to go out with from time to time when she's available? You're not going exclusive anyway at this point right?

Also, I think I get the forest for the trees comment above fred. Btdt. In retrospect its so easy to get really excited (overly so) about the first one or two that accept an invitation to go out. Its a big anxiety reliever and you get a lot of seratonon from it. [Remember my Halloween girl~ I was head over heals after two dates and sshe was ALL WRONG for me, lol]. Not that I'm some dating expert, just saying...

Have fun man.

Opt

Both people need to show fairly similar level of interest (expressed by desire to see each other, initiating communication, etc). Otherwise one person becomes the pursuer, and the other the distancer. Whether caused by distancer's lack of interest in the pursuer, or lack of interest in dating in general, or whatever - the result is the same. I believe that pursuer/distancer relationships are inherently flawed.

Over the years I developed a fairly short fuse for pursuing anyone who did not express interest in me. Life is too short and too full of women who are interested in you to pursue those who aren't.

In your case Fred, I'd be starting to look for the off-ramp . Maybe that will change the dynamic, you never know. One thing I know for sure, the more you pursue, the more she'll distance, which is a death spiral.

AGG

Thanks, opt. This has been my train of thought, too. There's no reason in my mind to simply shut the door because there hasn't been any progress on my terms and my timeline!

She hasn't said there isn't any interest, but she's not shown any sign of wanting to move further or faster. So why not see if there are times and events we'd like to enjoy together?

Yeah, wow, I DO remember Halloween girl. LOL! I remember thinking how fast things had gone. And then -poof!- it seemed to disappear. I guess it just shows we each reach our moments of "success" in different ways.

You and Kirby and the others have all been right, and all been valuable allies and advisors in this "re-new" journey. Thanks!

Good stuff, AGG. I seem to be on the receiving end of a lot of good stuff lately. And I'm lovin' it!!!

I'm truly grateful for people like you, who offer the hand of friendship and support to a virtual unknown!

I tend to lean towards Opts viewpoint too.

Had similar thoughts that you seemed to be putting a lot more into it than she is, Fred. Her txt to you seemed very curt (TY, etc).

However what you describe reminds me so much of my own recent dating experience (from a woman's perspective).

I went out with a guy a time or two. Very nice guy. Attractive. We had fun. Good conversation, similar interests, etc. He kept pursuing me, however I did not reciprocate. Nothing to do with him, but I was simply interested in somebody else.

Bingo! BTDT, on the receiving end. This is what I call a dating hazard, someone whose heart is elsewhere nonetheless going out on dates, why I do not know . That is why I would never pursue someone who did not reciprocate the interest.

AGG

I agree with much of what's been said. She may not be interested in a LTR, or she may be busy, or perhaps there's no spark for her. However, she showed enough interest to go out with you and to make special brownies for you so it's not like she doesn't like you or anything. I'd simply back off and maybe touch base once in a while and see if a friendship ensues. Who knows, you might both make great dinner/dancing partners on occasion and enjoy it! If all that results is a friendship, what's wrong with that? I have a friend named Fred that went through a similar situation and now he occasionally goes to a movie or dinner with his friend, both knowing it's not "going anywhere" but both okay with that.

ITA with what everyone has written. At this point, there isn't enough ROI (return of interest) for me to consider spending a lot more time and energy on pursuing her.

I am already locked in for the gift basket, and my wish is to take a chip to her tomorrow evening, but after that I think it's more like, "I'll see you around when something I think you might be interested in doing with me" pops up.

A short time ago, as I was picking up my Chinese food carry-out and coming home, I was re-thinking opt's observation of the "triumph" and "success" of asking someone out.

When I went to the dance/lesson Sunday, it was quite heartening to see how easy it is to go up to a woman and ask her to dance. Hey, that's what we're all there for, isn't it?

Fred,

look at it as great experience. the more you get the better you will be able to know when the person is a better match.

I will say that one point i have noticed is that above 50, many people have set lives, and have given up on finding someone, unless they fall in their lap. So when someone does fall into their lap, they are unprepared and don't quite know how to handle this accidental intrusion.

i had a date three weekends ago, met a woman at 6PM, we stayed until 11 PM. Two weekends ago, i met her at her house at 8 AM, we skied all day, went back to her house, made a fire, had champagne and cheese and crackers, spent an hour in the hottubwatching the stars, and then i went home. . .

She is in HR, and hires people all the time, and i was subjected to 13 hours of questioning, as she didn't shut up the whole time, and I hit a big nerve with her accidently, which meant that there were skeletons in her closet that she is really afraid of. . .

she is NOT someone with whom i would have a long term relationship, we know each other pretty well, and could have fun together, but most older people dating are very impatient, and think that the snap decisions after two dates are perfect.

My suggestion is to join a couple of meetups, meetup.com, and meet women without the dating cover, just going to have fun, and meet people with no outcome expectation. . .

no spouse hunting, . .

its all numbers. . .

WIFTTy, it's people like you and the assembled "crowd" who have gathered around that make me glad I started this thread.

WxW was "dropped in my lap," and after having been single for 11 years, it was like a gift from God. Little did I know that she was reading from her own script (the one that is described in the DSM-IV under the heading Borderline Personality Disorder).

Needless to say, the ensuing meltdown shook me to my core. And, as a man in his late 50s, I am much like you describe.

So is Ballroom Lady, I think. Had she not led a 12 week series and opened up a little about herself, I think I probably would have done little more than glance at her approvingly across the room. She's very quiet in a room full of people. By herself though, she's quite an interesting, capable and complex woman. But she is also 50+, and as you have observed, is pretty set in her ways...

With every passing day I grow in knowledge, wisdom and experience. Thanks to people like you!

So are you AGAINST the snap decision after two dates? Or is that only if it is a 'no'.

I wouldn't think people in their 40s and 50s would need 'numbers' to find a mate...

oh wait...you aren't spouse hunting. I'm confused.

And I think I sound snarky but really don't FEEL snarky. Just confused.

It's been a couple weeks, and I'm still in the middle of catching up on your thread (so happy you're getting pleasant dating experience!) but I just had to respond to this...


I find this interesting because I've been told over and over again NOT to call/text/email the guy, but let him call you.

I'm a novice though...

Ok, well, I've caught up on your thread, Fred, and it's interesting to see this from a guy's point of view. I don't know enough about modern dating to really offer an opinion on how Ms Dancer is feeling, but I know that it's interesting to see all this from the guy's point of view.

The (admittedly few) relationships I've had since becoming single all seemed to deteriorate when I began to show more interest in the guy and the advice I continually get from both other women and the plethora of dating books is to let the man do the pursuing, do the planning, pay the way.

Of course, I also have some issues regarding guys that I need to work out and totally own that my issues may be just as much the cause as my attempts to call/do for the guy.

I shall continue to follow your thread not only to selfishly take notes for my own dating experiences, but also celebrate your success.  I�m genuinely happy for you

DTC

Hi Daisy, thanks for your comments. It's nice to hear from someone who came to MB at roughly the same time!

I will likely post an update later tonight. By now, Ms. Dancer should have come home from work and found the gift basket. I haven't heard from her, so I don't really know. I'll be in her neighborhood in a short while, and I plan to call her and ask her if I can stop by for a moment. I have a chip I want to give her. I don't want to come into her house, I just want to give her the chip.

Should I just get her voice mail, I'll just go by and leave it inside her storm door.

So stay tuned...

Living Vicariously through you==CP

So happy to be a source of amusement.

...which is a pretty normal condition for me these days!

This evening I gave Ms. Dancer a call and got her voice mail. I left a message saying I just wanted to stop by for a moment; that I had something for her. If she was there and just not at the phone, to please call me back. No reply.

So I swung by her house. The lights were off and her car was gone. So I left the envelope with her chip and a congratulations card and headed home. No sign of the gift basket.

I just got home a few minutes ago and was settling in when I heard my phone announce the arrival of a text message. Thinking it was DD29, I picked it up, but it was from Ms. Dancer. It said

XXX, XX (disguised to protect the innocent) is about four hours from here. I knew she was going out of town to another city (not XXX) this weekend, but I thought not until Thursday or Friday.

I sent a text back wishing her a happy anniversary and that I thought she was going to city YYY.

Just now she replied

So I wished her a good rest, a safe drive and an enjoyable trip. I then said after she got back I'd tell her about my dance experience.

Now...

Did she get the basket?

Why send me a text announcing her arrival at her halfway point?

Am I completely on another planet, or am I right to be confused?

You're over-analyzing, I can see the smoke from here . I'd just sit back, read a good book, watch a good film, ask some cute girl out on a date, and don't worry your head about Ms. Dancer for the next few days. Let her make a move (or not). There's always the Church Lady, isn't there? (I can't keep track of all your women, Fred ).

AGG