Reading, thanks for the feedback. I agree that she's the one who needs to make the changes and take the actions that would show some effort to recover. I thought the email made that clear by asking what her plan was. I know her just telling me what her plan might be isn't action. But if she can show a plan then actions would have to follow.

PM, thanks for the response. Counseling with my WW actually started as counseling for the kids. The counselor had separate sessoins with WW and I prior to starting with them. After several meetings with them and us she asked if we would counsel together and we agreed. We've had a couple of sessions which have yet to produce any measurable positive results. And yes the modified plan b was recommended by Jennifer based on my situation, partly due to my poor plan. The counseling with MC however was not part of the original plan and came after I had my last session with Jen.

The cancer issue turned out to be fibrous tumors in her uterus which at this point are not life threatening.

In regards to your remark "jump and you'll say how high" I disagree. What WW knows is that buying her out of the house and the D is happening without a plan and action from her. The email I was thinking of sending I thought made that clear. Perhaps not but that was one of my questions. Was it communicated clearly?

Let's say I do go to pitch black plan B. What do you think it would have to take on her part in order for me to come out of the dark other than what I already outlined in my plan b letter and re-emphasized with the email above?

Communicated through your IM only:

1. A willingness to never see OM again AND write a no-contact letter to be mailed by you.

2. Complete transparency.

3. Open and honesty in everything, including answering any questions you may have about her A(s?). There is a limited scope to the questions/timing but it comes later.

4. MB Coaching and accountability.

I'm sure I've forgotten something but those are the basics. Have you read Dr. H's article on what it takes to begin recovery?

PM, missed your question about the kids. All 3 DSs know exactly what is going on and they understand that what their mother is doing is wrong. What I feel like I am teaching them is that a marriage is not something you throw away and discard when you are not happy with it but something you fight for and try to improve when things get tough. They realize, by my actions, that I am the one fighting for this marriage and their mother is the one destroying it. They also realize, that even though they know their mom is not doing the right thing that she still loves them and that I love them. However, they also realize that if anyone is going to protect them it's going to be me. It's sad to know that they feel no security from their mother but that's her doing and they do know that.

Thanks PM. Yes I have read the article. All the requirements you've outlined WW is aware of through the plan b letter and our counseling sessions. As I mentioned above, our counselor is not familiar with Dr Harley or MB but her principles are very much in line. I have actually suggested for her to visit this site and let her know that IMO it should be required reading for anybody considering couples or marriage counseling.

The IM has always been an issue with my situation. It was impossible to get anyone that I felt comfortable with. When I did WW had a way of destroying that persons perception of what they were to do and they would eventually bow out. I gave up on an IM months and months ago.

I probably will not be sending the email and I appreciate your feedback. Thanks

MForever, the problem I'm having is still the same as my last post here on 28 Oct. I've been in planb but it's been hard because of the lack of an IM and the need to pick up and drop kids. My plan B has not been stellar and we've had several contacts which would either end in arguments or her sucking me back into the drama. It's been much better since the holidays, plan B that is, but still needs work on y part.

WW has recently statred a job which requires child care and this has significantly reduce the contact between WW and I, which is good but still there are times when we have to txt back and forth because of sports schedules and such.

I guess the question I aske had more to do with how you handled that regarding the children. Since you have 4, I'm thinking it must have been hard but you ssaid it was relatively easy.

Any help you cab give would be apopreciated. I was going to read up on your thread but man, you've been here a while and it would take forever to read through all your history.

At Mforever suggestion, anyone else reading this interested in IM for me please let me know.

Here is how I worked pick up and drop off with the kids:

I would have them all ready to walk out the door the minute my H pulled into the driveway. I would stand out of sight and as soon as they were out the door, I would lock it behind them, in case he tried to come in (I had changed the locks so he didn't have a key.)

Same thing for when he returned them ~ he would let them out on the driveway and they would just come in the house and I would stay out of sight. It was very easy.

I don't have time to read through your whole thread but if you wan to give me a re-cap of how you are doing child swaps I will try think of some suggestions.

Thanks Forever

Unfortunately, even though W was engaged in A at the time, I was the one that moved out in Sep 08. I know, I know..bad move. This was before I came to MB though and I really had no idea what I was doing other than giving her "space". Anyway, I have the kids every Mon, Wed (they spend the night) and every other weekend from Friday at 5 till Sun at 8PM.

Even though my sig block indicates I started plan B in Nov 09 it fell apart rather quickly because of the visitation schedule and not having an IM. Between my work schedule and, at the time, her school schedule there were many times when things had to be switched around a bit.

This would lead to having to TxT and if she didn't respond to that, having to call. Those calls would set me back because of hearing her voice and if she was in a comforting frame of mind it wouldn't take much to suck me back into the drama. There have been several times when we would get quite cozy only to have it all fall apart again because of her love for cake.

I have not counseled with Jennifer of MB for sometime now but at the tiem I was and she did recommend a modified plan B, which seemed to work at first but then eventually blew up. Not because of Jennifers advice but my own innability to remain constant in the mods to plan B.

Today WW has a new job which has alleviated much of the contact. I now pick up the kids at child care and vice versa. The only time I have to stop by the home is when I drop them off on Tuesday and Wed ams and Sun eves when I have them for the weekend. The weekday mornings are ok because I drop boys off and wait till WW opens the door and I leave. Sunday eves can be a bit troublesome for for me because at times OMs vehicle is inthe drive and it just gets to me. Not that I make contact with WW or OM just the thought and sight of his vehicle in MY HOME sets my emotions way back and it keeps me emotionally stuck to drama.

Any suggestions would be very helpful MF. Thanks for taking the time.

Bump for MForever

You need an IM. This would eliminate much of this.

As for the dropping off and picking up ~ you need to let your WW know (THROUGH AN IM) that you will no longer be bringing them to the house (you don't have any sort of legal docs saying you must do this, do you?).

There is no reason why you should be seeing POSOM's car parked in YOUR driveway. No wonder you are struggling to bad ~ that is horrible.

Another option would be to find a friend or family member to be a pick-up/drop-off point so that you do not have to see this.

For example, my back-up plan should my H not have acquiesced to my request to not enter the house when he picked up or dropped off (I made him do both, per my PBL ~ why should *I* be inconvenienced because HE chose to have an A???) was to send our children down to our friend's/neighbor's house at pick up time and my H would have had to drop them off there as well. This was to avoid seeing him or him seeing me.

I would have used this if he had not complied.

I don't know your story...did you expose the h*ll out of this A?

Why can't you just move back home? Are you still paying for it? Do you own it? Has anyone filed D proceedings?

Sorry I didn't respond earlier Forever. We have a signed separation agreement that has been court ordered since Aug 2010. It stipulates she will stay in the marital home. It also stipulates that either one of us can buy the other out which I went through the re-finance process and was approved but WW refused to go to closing. I have filed a contempt complaint and we have a 4 Mar court date.

I did begin divorce proceedings shortly after the court ordered sep agreement. We had a 14 Dec court date which ended up getting postponed. We were both in agreement to do that. Now we have a 2 Aug 2011 court date.

I still pay 60% of the mortgage.

As for now I'm waiting to see what 4 March will bring and go from there. I really have very little hope for my marriage and am focused on my children. If I had known of MB before we separated I'm sure things would be much different. I never would have moved out for starters and I would have exposed much more nuclear. As it was, I did expose but somewhat piecemeal which, as you are aware, did not have the same affect. WW says she didn't start he A until after we separated but I knew better at the time and getting knowledge from this site only confirms that I believed she was seeing someone before we separated.

I can sympathize was some BSs on here when it comes to exposure. They feel that it would only drive the WS away. Fear is what drives this thought process. I really had no fear of exposing or the WW reaction to it but because I was not aware of how to do it the MB way it didn't work for me. Whenever I see a BS poster who is either contemplating moving out or afraid of exposure I usually chime in and emphasize the importance of NOT MOVING out and TOTAL EXPOSURE.

Sorry I didn't respond earlier Forever. We have a signed separation agreement that has been court ordered since Aug 2010. It stipulates she will stay in the marital home. It also stipulates that either one of us can buy the other out which I went through the re-finance process and was approved but WW refused to go to closing. I have filed a contempt complaint and we have a 4 Mar court date.

I did begin divorce proceedings shortly after the court ordered sep agreement. We had a 14 Dec court date which ended up getting postponed. We were both in agreement to do that. Now we have a 2 Aug 2011 court date.

I still pay 60% of the mortgage.

As for now I'm waiting to see what 4 March will bring and go from there. I really have very little hope for my marriage and am focused on my children. If I had known of MB before we separated I'm sure things would be much different. I never would have moved out for starters and I would have exposed much more nuclear. As it was, I did expose but somewhat piecemeal which, as you are aware, did not have the same affect. WW says she didn't start he A until after we separated but I knew better at the time and getting knowledge from this site only confirms that I believed she was seeing someone before we separated.

I can sympathize was some BSs on here when it comes to exposure. They feel that it would only drive the WS away. Fear is what drives this thought process. I really had no fear of exposing or the WW reaction to it but because I was not aware of how to do it the MB way it didn't work for me. Whenever I see a BS poster who is either contemplating moving out or afraid of exposure I usually chime in and emphasize the importance of NOT MOVING out and TOTAL EXPOSURE.

Ooops, double tap. ;-)

Thank you! We need you here. God bless.

Thanks newsong!

In the separation papers does it mandate that you do the dropping off and/or picking up? Does it say where this must be done?

Since you have papers you are going to have to think outside of the box on this. There is no reason you should be forced to see POSOM's car sitting in your driveway.

The sep papers do not mandate where the kids should be picked up or dropped off. There was a time when I was having her meet at a mutual friends house. It worked for a while but DS10 ended up in an argument with friends 10 year old son and their frienship came unglued so DS10 no longer wants to visit there. It was working pretty well. There was also a time when WW would pick them up at my apartment but she started showing up with OM and that just really got under mt skin.

It was as though WW was purposely rubbing it in my face and damn well new it so I went back to picking them up myself at the house.

I know this sounds really conveluted and inconsistant and you'd be right to think that. At times I get very dissappointed in myself for not being more consistant. The lessons I've learned here from MB have been difficult ones for me. Mainly because of the poor plan b I executed. It's this that keeps me coming here and reading other BSs story's. When I read about a BS who is hesitant to expose and not understanding the urgency and need for that or if they're looking at plan b and can't stay dark I usually chime in with my experience. The experience of how not to do it. This is my lesson learned. My story is proof that you can't do the exposure, plan a or plan b half azzed. The results will probably not be a positive one.

Some folks on this forum did poorly with the process but still, at least at the surface, seem to be in recovery. I think these folks were more lucky than anything else and we've still yet to see if they are truelly in recovery, especially if exposure has not happened and EMs are not in place.

I now know what to do, at least for the most part, and hope to communicate to other BSs, and WSs for that matter, that and, more importantly, what NOT to do.

In my current situation I can only pray at this point and protect my kids as best I can. I'm working on other arrangements for pick ups and drop offs and deligently looking for an acceptable IM.

Blessings

Update;

Going to court tomorrow. I had filed a show for cause because WW refuses to go to closing on my buy out of the home. My atty says we've got a pretty strong case but I'm still very anxious right now.

The problem her refusal caused was loss of my locked rate at 4%. Rates are now a full point higher. This is addressed in the complaint but doubtful the court will do anything about it.

Just hoping to walk away with the home

Most importantly however is the effect of this on the boys now 9 and 11. They are very conflicted on how they feel. I know they would stay with either one of us but would prefer to stay with whoever ends up with the home. My preference obviously is that they stay with me in the event I get the home. What really hurts me is to see the pain in their eyes when we discuss this. I have made it clear to them that my preference would be for their mom and I to recover our marriage. I've told them I'm willing to do this but right now their mom isn't. At times I'll see them stare of into space and I wonder what they're thinking and feeling. When I ask I usually get "oh nothing". It's difficult to get them to talk about ythe way they feel. It shatters my spirit when I see them totured like this.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what else I can say to them?