Pls, what is your plan for recovery?

1) How much UA time do you & your wife get?
Two hours on weekdays Four hours on weekend days is our goal and so far so good.

2) What are her top emotional needs?
What she describes as "feeling good about herself" which covers a lot of things mental, physical, cosmetic, relationship, etc.
A peaceful home that is more "refuge" than "base of operations"
Nonsexual affection and attention
Sleep, rest, time to herself
What she described as conflict avoidance which includes primarily family conflicts with our children and her relatives
Unconditional love and respect - meaning not just based on performance - what you guys call Love Bank

3) What are yours?
Appreciation - more along the lines of being satisfied more often without the constant feeling of the need to supply "Everything!"
Absolute confidence that we are on the same "team" - another way to say no lingering fear of abandonment or trust
Conversation about "difficult" topics - open communication rather than assumption making
Unconditional love and respect

4) What EPs has she got in place?
Open passwords to credit card, email, computer, etc.
Daily calls when out of town, no voice mail, real conversations
No delete policy on cell phone texts or VMs
GPS logging on cell
Same is being done by OMS with agreement to report any suspicious info

We are still in the process of figuring out the recovery acitivities. It looks like it will be influenced by recommendations and review of the following sources:

Jointly reading MB and other midlife crisis and codependency literature
Individual therapy for dealing with individual family issues and boundaries
Joint therapy directed by MC that is also the same source of IT
A recommitment event as a sort of "recovery accomplished" milestone
A life focus on what we call "third stage" planning of pre-retirement and retirement

We consciously decided not to rely on one source and diversify our approach because we want it to be a basis of our conversations (to help get double duty out of one of my emotional needs) comparing different approaches we find.

Fantastic work.


Read; basic concepts/emotional needs/admiration


Read; basic concepts/emotional needs/Domestic Support



Read; basic concepts/emotional needs/affection


This is met through use of PoJA and scheduling UA time.


This is not supported by MB - Radical honesty is.

Read; http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb2.cfm?recno=9&sublink=65


Also not an MB concept.

Read; http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb2.cfm?recno=9&sublink=540


I'll leave you to translate your own needs as you read the basic concepts.

"Appreciation" likely falls under Admiration.

Thanks - I like the signature line about critics.

One of the outcomes of our conversations to date is the agreement that "we try to talk it over, but the words get in the way". There is a tendency in the relationship and self-help industry that authors, counselors, and advisors try to get you to "buy" their words as if their definitions and word choices are absolutes and if you don't buy their word, you are doomed to failure. We both spend a lot of time in the literature of education and the same thing applies there. They make a life's work out of coming up with synonyms for "learning" and "teaching" and spend hours word-smithing the simplest of concepts as if doing better is based on describing better. Sometimes that is true, but actions and behaviors are much more than words. I am hoping to simplify our conversations and develop our own vocabulary that we agree to. Reading the same books at the same time and discussing has been very revealing how the same section means something completely different to each reader.

So we have a new boundary that kind of says, "don't use a word when a paragraph will do". Even the word "boundary" qualifies. And the worst part is that the same word changes meaning in a different context and a different source amd a different time - even between us. This actually becomes a source of anxiety between us because she quickly tires and wants to move on with a "whatever" and I love to break apart the semantics and connotations.

Take the first one - "Admiration/Appreciation". Appreciation means means to me that I can satisfice rather than optimize and a recognition that happiness had to be distinct from a completed list because the list forever remains incomplete. It is more a rational concept of priorities rather than an emotional concept of feelings. Admiration is closer in meaning to recognition for me. Appreciation is closer to security and physiological needs for rest and more time for people and less for things.

. . . and then you add the nonverbal on top of all that. Please don't turn the thread into an explantion of meanings. I'll read your references . . . again. Thanks.

That sounds good, as long as this time really is UA time meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs of affection, sexual fulfillment, conversation and rec companionship. No kids, friends or movies, TV, for example. What kinds of things do you do? Are you alone?


Well, none of these are really emotional needs, except affection. Some of them are bad for your marriage. For example, unconditional love is destructive and has nothing to do with the love bank. Dr Harley talks often about how destructive unconditional love is to marriages. "Time to herself" obviously is not an emotional need that creates romance in your marriage.


I would be sure and END her overnight travel altogether. Spending the nights apart is an invitation to an affair.

Has she ended ALL contact with the OM? She doesn't work with him, does she? And do you have some snooping methods on her that she DOES NOT know about? Because if she knows about all your methods she can easily work around them. The key is to have something in place she doesn't know about.

Please take the time to familiarize yourself with Marriage Builders, Pls, because as Dr Harley states, even small deviations from his plan is a disaster. I can just tell you from experience on this board, that not having a real plan usually results in repeat affairs. Ending the affair is only step ONE. If the next steps are not taken, ie: conditions that led to an affair changed and romance created in the marriage, repeat affairs are often the result. A non-recovered marriage is a crippled version of the pre-affair marriage and is more vulnerable to an affair than before.

Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on your wife's ability and willingness to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become completely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and make you feel safe. She must meet your needs in a way that until now she has failed.

PNA, I am really glad that you are in a better place, and frankly touched you remembered what I told you and that it helped.

This place and the people here can be tough, and you are still getting asked tough questions, but understand they only do that out of concern. They have seen it before and they will see it again.

My thought for you now is - floor the gas on changes you've made. One of my closest friends on this forum is an ER doctor in New England. Very high performing guy, mature, absolutely in love with his wife. Thought he had the affair killed, made some progress, on the road back. Then he let off on things and she did it again - second time in two years. He's fought harder this time, but she filed a couple of weeks back and this time exposure didn't work. Shes gone. Whenever I see BHs now I think of my buddy, and it motivates me. Don't be that guy - take the advice and meet each others needs, be confident, show leadership in your life.

It sounds like you are doing that, and I am really happy about it. I feel like I paid back part of my debt if you are going to make it. Just don't take your eye off the prize for one second.

And sometimes I can't decide - you almost sound like an English prof, and then Eco or Finance off and on too.

Wow, almost three years have passed since my last post here. My situation is back to normal, which is of course where I thought it was before the affair and divorce threat and crisis . . . so maybe call it a new normal.

I was never as sad and broken as I was when I was on this forum and I still appreciate the support of those that supported. It is strange to read my posts from that time as if it were just a nightmare or a drama played out by others.

To those that did not support my "partial disclosure" plan, it seems still to this day in my case to have been successful. The destruction of a professional career would have been too big a divide for her to come back to me. But I don't say that to influence others in their decisions - just to give you a single data point.

What I still take away from the crisis is the realization is that the root for much of this was not in only in our marriage, but in our childhood and personalities and the damage that comes from both being raised in families where role models of love did not exist and true trust was ruined from abuse and neglect.

We are survivors clinging to each other more than adventurers who found each other. But we are happier together than apart and I work the recovery plan still to keep it that way.

To those here still hurting, the best advice given to me was to work on myself and be patient. Those were terrible days and nights. Thanks to those that continue to monitor the forum and help.

Glad to hear you are well;

Have you eliminated all overnights apart?

Are you following the POJA?

Do you have 15-20 hours of UA time weekly?

The advice Dr. Harley offers for recovering from an affair is designed to give you the best chance for recovery. That doesn't mean that recovery is impossible otherwise; it is just less likely.

I can tell you that my recovered marriage is much better than before. A marriage that is "the same" as before is still vulnerable to another affair. You can do better than "the same" if you make a serious effort to employ MB principles into your marriage.

PNA,

I get the impression your WW never confessed, felt remorse, or gave you just compensation of any kind. WW and the OM escaped without a scratch.

This last affair seems like a repeat of her first affair.

God Bless
Gamma

This thread reminds me of talking to H's OWH. OW had had three affairs that he knew about and one abortion that he knew about and they continued on without changing much in their marriage. At best, they are miserable. At worst, she has had another affair or two.

AM