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CWMI #2463982 01/13/11 11:00 PM
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CWMI,

Gotta say in my situation, my DH has severe detachment (diagnosed by more than 1 counselor and attributed to the violence he witnessed as a child). For many years, if something upset or bothered me or our kids, it was our "problem" to deal with. With my own IC, I came to the conclusion that my problem was that I was there in my M. She agreed and told me when I state my negative feelings or issues that involve him, my DH doesn't see himself as part of equation. The issue is mine to own because in his mind it has no bearing on him nor he on it.

I was just reading your response to KT to my DH, he was able to jokingly laugh that detachment is like,
"If I don't have time for my emotions, what makes you think I have time for yours?"

I'm not saying your DH has detachment. I'm no counselor. But your thread resonates with me, so I'd thought I'd share my perspective with you.


Live, love, and laugh because the best is yet to come!
RareMamaJewel #2464076 01/14/11 10:41 AM
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RMJ, are you saying that you match his detachment with detachment of your own?

I am a fiercely loyal and loving person...on the flip side, I can also be fiercely unloving and completely not give a hoot (knock the dust from my shoes, walk away w/o a second thought). I don't think I'm capable of being in a marriage where I am detached from my spouse without finding an attachment elsewhere.

We've been snowed in all week. H didn't return to work until yesterday, so he was here for four straight days and it was really nice.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2464109 01/14/11 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by CWMI
RMJ, are you saying that you match his detachment with detachment of your own?

I am a fiercely loyal and loving person...on the flip side, I can also be fiercely unloving and completely not give a hoot (knock the dust from my shoes, walk away w/o a second thought). I don't think I'm capable of being in a marriage where I am detached from my spouse without finding an attachment elsewhere.

We've been snowed in all week. H didn't return to work until yesterday, so he was here for four straight days and it was really nice.

I understood RMJ to be saying that her problem was that she was/is present in her marriage and her dh is not. That if they were both more detached there would not be a problem. ? Don't know....curious now to hear what she says.

CWMI in my previous marriage I came to the conclusion I was never going to get what I wanted from him. I did detach somewhat...and I focused on other areas of my life....other people...while maintaining good boundaries with other men. If he hadn't cheated on me I would never have divorced him. However, I can not believe how wonderful a good relationship is. It does make me a little angry that I went without a good marriage for so many years. But I did what I felt was right, so I don't regret my decision to stay so long.


CWMI #2464306 01/14/11 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CWMI
RMJ, are you saying that you match his detachment with detachment of your own?

I am a fiercely loyal and loving person...on the flip side, I can also be fiercely unloving and completely not give a hoot (knock the dust from my shoes, walk away w/o a second thought). I don't think I'm capable of being in a marriage where I am detached from my spouse without finding an attachment elsewhere.

We've been snowed in all week. H didn't return to work until yesterday, so he was here for four straight days and it was really nice.

Oh, I definitely don't match his detachment, but I don't fret over his detachment like I used to, now that we know what is happening with him. Plus, he's working on trying to "feel" his emotions. As a child he learned to "stuff" his emotions as a survival/defense mechanism. From an MB perspective, he has a difficult time with O and H because he denies to himself what he is truly feeling. In the past few months, he's been able to begin acknowledging to himself just how angry he is over a number of things, where at one time he would have denied anger at all. Kinda like, "nothing's wrong, so there's nothing to deal with". But oh boy, he is annngggrryy. (Not necessarily at me.)

Like you I am loyal and loving. I refuse to be in a M with someone who is detached but not working on self. Fortunately, my DH is working on it. It is an extremely slow process, but given his experiences, completely understandable. I did have to create a safe environment where he can express himself freely and have to admit it hasn't been easy. MB has some great techniques on how to avoid LB's, DJ's etc and that has helped immensely in creating a safe place for my DH.

I personally would never recommend intentional detachment by a partner unless it's for Plan B, S or D. Intentional detachment, from what I've learned here, would be a slippery slope to an affair. I guess the MB principles are aimed at couples who are fully capable of intimacy as spouses. With some disorders, true intimacy is a challenge or might not even be attainable. In my M, my DH wants the emotional intimacy and he's willing to work hard to have it. For me, I accept that what my husband gives me emotionally is a big thing for him. It might not seem like a lot to me, but it is for him. That means very much to me.

With my DH's detachment, it's like comparing someone who is healthy to someone who is on oxygen. A healthy person can do everyday tasks with no problem, but a person on oxygen becomes exerted by doing normal activities. It's like that, but in the emotional realm.

What do you want CWMI? You mentioned earlier in your thread that Dr H recommended your DH see someone else. What if your DH is given a diagnosis of some type of personality disorder? What, if anything, are you willing to deal with in that spectrum? (you don't have to answer these ??? here, but they are questions an IC would ask you to think about)

For me in my own situation, I have decided to make a go of it even though my DH struggles with detachment. I had to figure out for myself what I was willing to deal with in my M and define what would be to me, a love bank attaboy, a love buster, a DJ, etc.

It's nice to hear that you enjoyed the time your hubby was home. That's a very positive sign.


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SmilingWoman #2464313 01/14/11 05:44 PM
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Oh Smiley, I'm sending the love.

There was a point that I knew if my DH didn't make some internal changes, that we didn't have a chance. I don't want a mediocre M, I want a wonderful M. My DH wants that too. He was willing to get help for himself so we can have a better M. It wasn't easy on him to rehash childhood stuff, do EMDR,and still face more EMDR. But he's willing to do it to improve himself and be a better DH and father. This kept my love bank open for business.



Live, love, and laugh because the best is yet to come!
RareMamaJewel #2464320 01/14/11 06:04 PM
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What I want is POJA, UA, RH, MB101 stuff, I haven't quite hit my threshold of enough to demand IC/whatever of addressing his issues of IB/detachment. He does a good job of pushing me *sofar* and then backing off and giving me just enough to sate me.

I'm hopeful, but guarded.



Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2464480 01/15/11 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by CWMI
What I want is POJA, UA, RH, MB101 stuff, I haven't quite hit my threshold of enough to demand IC/whatever of addressing his issues of IB/detachment. He does a good job of pushing me *sofar* and then backing off and giving me just enough to sate me.

I'm hopeful, but guarded.

I don't know if you should label his IB along with detachment, unless Dr H said it was that. But you'll know when you've had enough. Unfortunately when that happens, your love bank will likely be closed. So be very careful.



Live, love, and laugh because the best is yet to come!
RareMamaJewel #2465364 01/18/11 01:42 PM
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Okay, ick. I picked up the package of info on getting a Hope Mentor through our church, and it has questions about my parent's relationship, to me and to each other. I'm okay with answering, but don't want to spend my time with someone 'sorting that out', I get it already, my father was a [censored] and my mother a ho.

I want to write on the front page, "I would like a female mentor of 60-80 years of age who has been in a happy marriage of 40+ years."

Should I? smile


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2465767 01/19/11 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by CWMI
I want to write on the front page, "I would like a female mentor of 60-80 years of age who has been in a happy marriage of 40+ years."

Should I? smile

You could. But their idea of a happy marriage might not be yours. For example, let's say my wife and I had been married for 45 years happily. However, you're not hip that my wife goes out with her friends on occassion and I'm okay with that. And I go to a once-a-year coaching conference out of town that leaves me away from home for 4 days at a time. So in that scenario, even though my wife and I have been married for that many years and very happily, you wouldn't want the type of marriage my wife and I have.

Not saying there aren't a ton of things you couldn't learn and pick up from the wisdom of being married happily that long. But you may not agree with the marriage being what you'd consider happy for yourself.


Just food for thought.


Husband (me) 39
Wife 36
Daughter 21
Daughter 19
Son 14
Daughter 10
Son 8 (autistic)

kilted_thrower #2466031 01/19/11 07:15 PM
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Excellent point KT. The essence of MB is to become the person that your spouse wants to be married to. Not the person you want to be married to. Or the person someone else's spouse might want to be married to. The tricky part is to find ways to be enthusiastic about becoming that person.


When you can see it coming, duck!
holdingontoit #2466063 01/19/11 08:22 PM
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CWMI, could you attach a little note saying you have reconciled/come to terms with your FOO and need support in other ways? I am all for letting a counselor mentor know what YOU need. When you said that about 60-80 years old, the first thing I thought of was the passage in Titus 2.

Tawandabelle #2466216 01/20/11 09:26 AM
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kt--I keep thinking about what our pastor Jeff said about seeking counsel from people who already are where you want to be. So yes, you are correct, I would not want the counsel of someone who is in a place where her and her H have separate social lives and are happy with that, because it's not where I want to be.

T, that sounds do-able.

I do think his reading this thread has made an impact on him and his attitude.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2466220 01/20/11 09:31 AM
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I had a pastor Jeff once....pastor Jeff's tend to be pretty smart.

Tawandabelle #2481957 02/25/11 06:34 PM
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I decided to forgo the mentor. Possibly a big mistake. Possibly a big mistake averted. When in doubt, do nothing, right?

VENT WARNING


My H is sick with a terrible strain of flu, like I had a year ago Christmas. I love him, I care for him, he's in the bed right now after being tended to with food, beverage, and drugs.

And I'm furious/weepy/conflicted. I'm still mad about being left for dead a year ago Christmas when I was 103 temp and could barely move and he yelled at me about being a controlling B for asking him to stay home from breakfast with the guys, and punishing me for that by staying gone from 7am-8pm the entire week following.

I told him that still bothered me. He said he was sorry but what did I expect him to do then, stay home? I said that not yelling at me would have helped, and yes, being home would have helped, too. It would take so long to get into the conversations we've had over the last several months, but the end result is...I've had no REAL apologies. He still justifies, he still gets defensive, he still thinks that everything was beyond his control. TOTAL DJ, but I'm jealous that he has a spouse who takes (ETA: CARE, I mean care of him, and I most certainly mean when one is unable to care for self or others, i.e. when down with illness) of him, and I don't. But I haven't been that sick, so maybe? Ugh, I don't want to get that sick to find out.

Next vent, less painful for me, kinda wth:

He has put his foot down on travel. No more! YEAH! I agreed to events so long as they are not frequent, one every 3-4 months outside of work hours (most are in). So last weekend, he went to one, a shooting shindig with rich peeps, and came home and complained that he had to stay with the cars and wasn't able to shoot.

And what do I find on teh interwebz?

A piccie of my H shooting at the event.

He said, "Well, I meant I didn't get to shoot skeet with the rest, I did get to fire off a couple of rounds at the end. I'm sorry you misunderstood what I meant by saying I didn't get to shoot."

Um...okay...number one, why lie about that? and number two, bwa-ha-ha, do I look stupid? Has he totally missed my literal interpretations over the years, and thought I believed that you can shoot a gun but not be shooting? Bwa-ha-ha!

"I had a drink, but I wasn't drinking."

"I drove the car, but I wasn't driving."

"I shot the gun, but I wasn't shooting."

"I lied, but I'm not a liar!"

/vent


Last edited by CWMI; 02/25/11 07:10 PM. Reason: durrr

Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
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CWMI #2481964 02/25/11 07:15 PM
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I'm voting 'born liar', what do ya'll think?

I mean really, "I did shoot, but I wasn't shooting," kind of does me in.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2481978 02/25/11 08:01 PM
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Do you "love and care" for your husband because it's "love and care" for it's own sake? Or are you doing it because you expect something in return?

Are you angry at him for the way he treated you? Or are you angry at *you* for putting up with it?

Unfortunately, your husband does not see any problem with how he goes through life. He thinks he is correct in his approach to situations. Even after doing MB counseling, he still sees no need to meet your needs, much less your wants. I think that's why Dr Harley recommended that your DH see an IC. It's not normal for someone who wants to be married to reject outright what his or her spouse needs and refuse to negotiate a solution that makes both partners happy.

Your husband doesn't have any problems, CWMI (from his perspective). You have the issues, (from his perspective), so you are the one with the problem. And the problem is that you are there. He doesn't change. In fact, he treats you poorly, you (from his perspective) cry and whine and gripe about his treatment of you, and then you turn around and do those very same 'nice' things for him that he refuses to do for you.

If you've given him food, beverage and drugs, don't cry over it. You chose it of your own free will and out of love. He likely thinks your being a B and throwing it in his face for revenge, not because you love him.

What you get from him is what you get, kwim? I can't understand why you didn't leave the kids with him and head out for a girls night out. No food, bevs, or drugs, just a "I've gotta go, it's girl's night out". And if he got mad about it, well, then you'd know what a jerk he is and if he didn't get mad, well, then you'd know he is just plain ol' detached.

I can't say he's a liar. People have different versions of truth. What's his? If you aren't going out for the weekend, then put his idea of truth to the test. Next time he is due for food, bevs, drugs, get the item ready, but leave it some place that he has to get up and get it. Tell him something like, "I got your gatorade for you, it's in the cup on the kitchen bar."

If he accepts that as getting it for him, then maybe you don't have a liar on your hands, rather, someone who sees things differently than you. If he calls bogus and says that because you didn't bring him the item, it means that you didn't get it for him, then you'll know he's a liar.

I'm sharing this because he might just have a strange approach to truth. No better time to find out his "truth" style than when he's in need due to the flu.

but you really need a definite conclusion on his truth style...he could be that clueless.



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RareMamaJewel #2481985 02/25/11 08:14 PM
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RMJ, he doesn't care if I bring him anything or not. I want to take care of him, because I love him and I promised to take care of him. It's what I do...someone I love goes down, and I start lifting.

I thought about taking off, and then thought that the only reason I would do that would be vindictive. And I don't want to be anywhere else anyway. Why would I abandon my kids with an incapacitated parent??? Then I really get angry...

I wouldn't lift a finger to prove to anyone that I'm a B. Do people really do that? Help people so they can throw it in their face? I don't get that kind of thinking. I'm way too lazy to expend energy doing something that I could convey with a flip of a finger.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
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CWMI #2481991 02/25/11 08:23 PM
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Quote
I'm way too lazy to expend energy doing something that I could convey with a flip of a finger.

rotflmao

Sounds like your resentment is reaching critical levels. Go back and read your very first post on this thread. What exactly has changed?

You can either continue to exist with things like they are or do something different.

What would different look like?


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
CWMI #2481993 02/25/11 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CWMI
RMJ, he doesn't care if I bring him anything or not. I want to take care of him, because I love him and I promised to take care of him. It's what I do...someone I love goes down, and I start lifting.
Maybe he doesn't realize the "caring" that is a natural part of love. Healthy people care for one another when someone is down.

I thought about taking off, and then thought that the only reason I would do that would be vindictive. And I don't want to be anywhere else anyway. Why would I abandon my kids with an incapacitated parent??? Then I really get angry...

Hmmm, digging a bit deeper. When you were sick, did he just "leave you alone" to care for yourself? Or did he also leave the kids with you while you were incapacitated? btw, I don't think you should leave the kids, I'm just trying to gauge the situation

I wouldn't lift a finger to prove to anyone that I'm a B. Do people really do that? Help people so they can throw it in their face? I don't get that kind of thinking. I'm way too lazy to expend energy doing something that I could convey with a flip of a finger.
yep, those 'martyr' types do things and throw it in peoples faces. it isn't done outta love. yuck!


Live, love, and laugh because the best is yet to come!
princessmeggy #2481999 02/25/11 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by princessmeggy
Quote
I'm way too lazy to expend energy doing something that I could convey with a flip of a finger.

rotflmao

Sounds like your resentment is reaching critical levels. Go back and read your very first post on this thread. What exactly has changed?

You can either continue to exist with things like they are or do something different.

What would different look like?

stickout

He got rid of travel. That's changed. For realz this time, because the last trip he was supposed to be on was a couple of weeks ago. And he was here, telling me his boss's boss told him that H's stand on it was 'making the right decision.'


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
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