I try to be well-rounded.

Time to revert to the rotten little boys that we once were, then...

Hello BH clubhouse.

There is progress. We have lots of UA. Lots of talk. What we need more of is recreational fun time. We have a family trip to Florida in less than a week. Good practice for the family unit. Good chance for me to work on FC. (take initiative, take interest, communicate and connect with the kids. No nose in the book or newspaper for hours while the kids play in the sand.)

Yes, I am medicated thankfully. I have been on anti-depressants since November and I have a pocketfull of Xanax.

She is coming around. I am just saying that I am feeling stronger and able to actually face the reality that she might have to move out. She is working on building the love and also getting past the anger and fog of being exposed. She is listening to me explain how much it hurts. Her favorite author (Mira K. - who has some very wrongheaded advice.... but also matches up well with Harley sometimes) her favorite author talks about making amends, building trust and listening for as long and hard as it takes to your BS describe the pain WW caused! Even when you think he can't peel off another layer of pain... he will. And you must sit there and listen.

I am definitely a lot less needy and pathetic. I need to get out of the house and do more for myself.

We have plans for restoring love. She and I both have idenitifed our EN's and the three simple things we both want to focus on to build love.

Plan A rocks. When I am strong enough... and if she has one foot in and one foot out for too long... then we'll think about Plan B. Meantime, I have some Harley reading that explains to WS how much pain she continues to inflict post-exposure with this indecision.

Also, since I seem to have a fan club out there with you BH's.... I will keep you updated on the SF developments this weekend!

Since I am spending way too much time in university textbooks once again, your action/drama/betrayal/love story gives me the chance for entertaining reading without having to pick up another book. We just need a few secondary story lines about the 10-keger frat parties and the midnight pool takeovers.

I've got the popcorn out, so keep up the fight. We need to have a reunion one of these days. Ha!

Too true--I have this as a sticky note on my computer, and read it regularly. Strong and independent!

Y'know, this was the most bizarre snow event I've ever seen. Downtown Seattle got barely a dusting. My house, about 30 miles South, got barely a dusting. 10 miles further south? 6 inches. In between my place and Seattle? 6 inches. And, head about 30 miles north and a bit East towards Bellevue and surrounding... 2+ FEET of snow. It's absolute insanity. These are places that shut down under 2 inches, and they're measuring in feet. Couple that with record setting cold (in the teens overnight) and it's been a truly strange week.

I'd love to catch a beer if you or anybody is in the area. Go Dawgs, that Nebraska game WAS a fun one!

Stretch--you're in a good place today... enjoy it, keep it up!

Hello all. Today I found MB and started reading this topic. So I start a jouney that I may find an answer to a question I dare not ask anyone around me. Will I be ok? I have not yet told her what I know about her actions.

Thank you in advance, as I am feeling better already from reading all the great feedback that Stretch has gotten.

Should I start my own topic or use a post to tell my story? Where do I learn the abbreviations used here. I will only be able to reply at my 9-5 job.

Start your own thread. There are links around here somewhere for the abbreviations. So, there is another story out of the Emerald City?

Welcome, itburns. Yes, you need to start your own thread. I'll notify the moderators for you and ask them to call it "Thread for Itburns_so." Look for it under Surviving an Affair.

Good to see you in better spirits stretch.

I think the only way to keep Marital out would be to tell Melody shes developing opposite sex friendships. Ahhhh Reynolds is starting to learn the kung fu around here.

LOL, bring your husband marital. He might take a 2x4 or two as a FWS, but we'll try to look past that.

LOL! My H initially wanted to come online, but he thinks it's just too hot in here for him as a wayward, even though he's earned his 'F'. He follows my postings and knows the travails of my 'favorites' (you're one of them!)

Mel knows I like guys. Make that 'one' guy. So you're not going to get there on that one either, mister. The He-Man Woman Haters Club WILL be infiltated. And we'll make sure you guys pick up your socks!

I am getting a lot of insight from AndyM's thread where everyone is talking about the convoluted mindset of the WS. Cognitive dissonance, compartmentalizing, justification, addiction. ("I found something that made me happy. I remember my conversations with him so fondly. I felt like I was the real me.") But its hard for her to grasp that it wasn't real. It was a fantasy. She didn't have to ask OM to write a check and pay for preschool and discipline a naughty child and navigate in-laws during the holidays and wipe noses and change diapers and juggle finances and be with her when depression strikes and pick her up when she feels frustrated about being a stay at home mom and support her when she tries to do something productive and support her when that fails and sooth her body when its sore and nurse her health when she is sick.

She went out when her health felt good, her depression was gone, she could leave the troubles and the cares and responsibilities behind (husband was taking care of all four kids for the weekend while she partied with girlfriends) and dancing and kissing and long conversations with OM were a fun diversion. The fantasy seemed so good.

Anyway, we really, really engaged in conversation again yesterday. She initiated. In the morning I asked her: "Why are you frustrated.?" And I listened. After I got home in the evening I asked her, "May I probe and ask about you? What were you feeling at 5 o'clock? Depressed all day?" Nope. I was wrong. She was frustrated about five different things. I listened and understood them all. 4 yr old was a tyrant today. Hubby wants affection but long kisses and hugs in the kitchen are too needy all the time. Wasn't really certain what time hubby would get home to help me pick up the minivan from the shop (based on my former behavior -- I owe her extraordinary promises and measures so she can feel safe about exactly when I will get home. Between 3:30 and 5:00 is simply not acceptable with my baggage). Minivan repairs were really expensive. Oldest DD was in a difficult mood and I was trying to be patient and get her to talk, but wife is frustrated my efforts are clumsy and engaging with the kids and getting to know them is a brand new effort for me.

She volunteered to read and discuss Harley's four rules (Care, Protection, Honesty, Time) and we talked about that for a couple hours while folding laundry.

I shared some pain and did get sad and weepy. (I met a 52yr old male colleague who shared his story. He is 52, divorced, single, hates dating, and just wants so badly for his WXW to love him again. I am devastated thinking I could be that guy in 12 years.) Apologized because sad and weepy is not "attractive." But for her she said its okay because, "Showing an honest full range of emotions is very desirable to me."

Its hard work, but we get a chance to a) Listen b) Say what we want c) Be Open and Honest d) Be supportive. And we are building up the UA hours.

I agree. I get a lot out of Andy's thread as well.

I think the fantasy can't be maintained for too long. I think thats why the vets keep hitting us with 2X4's to stop enabling and let them feel the consequences (reality). My confusion lies with plan A and how I meet her emotional needs without enabling. I'm hoping the Harley's can help me with that.

My WW has even stated that she didn't want to marry the OM because it might end up just like us. LOL WTH is the point then. No matter where she goes, there she is so unless she makes changes within herself, her cycle will continue.

Hang in there Stretch. This roller coaster is hard to ride constantly every day. But we have to keep our eye on the prize.

Thanks LNT.

Other people I talk to don't understand our BH group. We are working so hard to win back WW's because we love them. I hear all the time: "You are stronger than me. You are a better man than me. I wouldn't hang in there and do this."

Well, those gents haven't been sitting in our position. Also, quite often, its younger rash men that say that sort of thing to me. I have spent the past six months developing a deeper love for her. But I was frustrated that it wasn't getting all the effects. Little did I know she wasn't giving me a chance to deposit love units while she used vast amounts of energy to maintain this lie and betrayal. Now its very clear.

When she thinks: "Its impossible. Its too late." I am pretty sure what she can't see is that she will need to make the 180. SHe will need to admit to her A being a mistake. To the hurt and deceit. To revisit a lot of her revisionist history. To believe in me and my changes and growth. I have demonstrated so much remorse for mistakes and missing her EN's.

But when she says, "It's too late.." She means:

"Its easier to quit and not believe in my H."
"I am afraid to shatter these big walls and these stories and predjudices that I worked so hard to build in order to allow myself to have an A and defend my terrible actions."
"I will have to drop my baggage about what my husband said or did five years ago that I convinced myself justified my affair and that's uncomfortable."
"I will need to talk to my friends and family and be supportive of my husband, and be honest about our growth and that's going to be a switch in my way of talking to my support group."
"It was easy to make H the bad guy and get their support, encouragement and approval for my A. Now I have to be fair and honest with them. And with my personal therapist."
"Now maybe I have to understand my own responsibility for my depression."
"None of this is easy or fun."
"Now I have to believe in H's remorse and guilt for missing my EN's all those years and believe in the new man."
"Now I have to figure out what I did that maybe missed his EN's."
"This is a lot of hard work."
"It was going to be easier to blame you and just quit."

I think that sums up what's so frustrating to the WW. Damn these dedicated, committed BH's for their love and devotion! Why don't they just get angry and play the abusive role like I expected them too?!?!

Just so you know Marital, I have been picking up my socks for a number of months as part of a comprehensive program to reduce annoying habits...lol

Stretch, glad you had a good talk, keep it up.

Good talk is not all we had btw...
Mind blowing SF.

I hope this is real and its heading somewhere!

Hey Reynolds, there is no honor or pride or humor in attempting to create a 'BH Clubhouse' for solace in regard to my interpretation of MB. I realize the tee hee in terms of salving betrayal wounds and relieving the stress, but it doesn't work with me. I think Stretch needs much more than you and Bliss have offered very recently.

So, maybe either be prepared to offer up LONG-TERM marital experience and success or shorter-term expertise and counseling training.

Stretch: I realize that you need the committment from your WW at this time. The thing I think you are going to have to realize is that to gain that, you are going to have to show your patience for a long time. It seems unfair. It's a risk, but the only person who can decide if it that risk is acceptable is you.

Tom

You hit the nail on the head stretch. I was one of those guys who would say that until it happened.

My WW has even admitted that she F***ed up and acknowledge my pain and has been remorseful.....but only a couple of times. Yet she still continues and gets deeper and deeper in. I think she wants to leave herself with no other choice, or for me to make that choice for her.

Congrats on the SF! I think thats one of the reasons my WW won't even stay here at night now. She KNOWS it will happen. I mean come on, she can't resist THIS! lol And she don't want to 'cheat' on the OM......at least not yet. She is so backwards. Thank God for Marriage Builders so we know this is basically standard behavior for WS's, and that we are not alone.

I do need her commitment. I do. I really want that. But I guess its going to be a long time. How much patience do I have?

Before D-Day, I made this one of our goals with our new therapist. I had a goal for her that was: She is committed to the marriage. She wears her wedding ring.

In the fog since exposure she got defensive and justified. But the fog is lifting quite a lot. Still, she said "I will not lie. I cannot give you a promise that you want. Don't try to push me."

Plan A. Plan A. Plan A.

When I cannot take it any more, and I feel strong and independant then Plan B. But, maybe Plan A gets me the commitment.

For now, I am enjoying our time together. Life is semi-normal. The intimacy and talks and open/honesty is great. I think we're building love units. And I have a chance now like I didn't when she was shackled with her lie.

Stretch - I think your "It's too late" list is great. WW and I have had this conversation in the past (last year some time before I knew of the affair) - she would say the 'easy' or 'safe' choice was to stay with me and I would counter with the opposite. See, it depends on perspective - easy = ho-hum, comfortable lifestyle, hubby is easy etc. Or hard = work through the doldrums to renew, refresh and keep the romance alive. What is it that you want?

I'm really happy for you - man! I'm still in the same place, waiting for the check to arrive (so to speak).