Hey Stretch,

I do honestly hope things will go well for you. My one concern is that with the exception of Marital you do not seem to have any veterans advising you. Have you considered consulting with the Harley's instead of putting out the funds for another MC? I think you would be farther ahead.

t/j/

Yea Marital, point taken. The humor, yea, IF it was coming from proven vets. My whole point is that you cannot have a backup quarterback advising the starter! Who the hell is this Reynolds guy and where is his thread? No skin off my you know what, but if I were Stretch I would want more true veterans here to advise, and you seem to be the only one now.

Take care Atretch and Marital,

Tom

Now, Tom. You know better than anyone that the coach defers to his offensive, defensive and special teams coordinators to utilize their talents and bring home the win. It takes a lot of different skills to get the Ring.

So compare us to the coach's coordinators in this case.

Tom, seriously what is your issue? Do you have a thread Tom? Or are you simply recreationally on the site? Telling some BHs to "grow a pair" or something similar is less than helpful. Have you been in our shoes? I would really like to know.

Yes, I did have a thread and a number of very good people helping me, including Marital, Melody and Wondering. Its those same people who encouraged me several months ago to jump in and encourage BHs through exposure.

Yes, we are in recovery, as broad a term as that is.

I do not see what makes you a vet, and I never claimed to be one either but like I said I have no interest in picking a fight with you. If you prefer to fight we can let the mods decide who should stop posting to stretch.

Regards.

Who the hell is this Reynolds guy and where is his thread? ... if I were Stretch I would want more true veterans here to advise

TMMX-
I don't remember anyone here being awarded "Vet" status by anyone. We bring our own experience to these threads, post as we feel it would contribute to the discussion, leaving the initiator free to consider our points, accept them, reject them, or parse them into accept/reject segments.

The only editorial supervision would be that the comments can not be left unaddressed if they violate MB Principles, or certain standards of decorum. (Serial violater here!)

So your problem with R531 is what, exactly? That he might come across too strong? That you disagree with him? Well, you're free to take issue with, and counter, his advice with your own. But to snidely imply that he is somewhat unworthy to have, and offer, an opinion is, I think, out of your accorded range of site-competency, and given your history of contributions to this marvelous site, somewhat surprising.

So, can we end the t/j, and return to helping Stretch?

Hey stretch, is that fog lifting yet?

Hope things are going better for you.

Things are better. The fog lifts. I am stable.

Not interested so much in the distraction going on my thread with Tom and the "vets" or "non-vets"... whatever.

I value everyone's contribution. I appreciate that some have recovered for a long time... some for a short time... some did not recover... some men had their exposure day the same day as mine and we are in different places now, probably going to have different experiences. I even value Tom who apparently never dealt with infidelity in 41 yrs. Truly happy for his marriage and jealous.

Back to me and my marriage. Its hard sometimes. My wife does not want to hurt. I can't stand to see her hurt. But how can we avoid that? She has said hurtful things to me and its hard to sit and listen to justification fogbabble and not respond. But I want O&H so I need to hear her mind. Take it as a gift. I don't have to agree. She doesn't have to think I agree, even a little bit. But I am working on not getting defensive.

Here was the hardest one last Sat night: "If he was a woman, this wouldn't even be an issue. In the end, we really just had a friendship. Its like I made a friend."

That justification fogbabble hurt. ANd she admitted it sounded like justifaction nonsense. But I had to jump in. How ridiculous. You made a "new friend" that you kissed and asked for sex. That you created a web of deception and lies to meet with. That you fantasized about blending your children and families with. That you gave a piece of your heart and wanted to love.

I should have just listened and said, "thank you. That's difficult to accept honestly. It does hurt to hear you say that, but it was honest so thank you."

If that fogbabble exists in five months and I cannot take it any longer... Plan B.

the easiest path she sees - right now - is for you to "get over it". She doesn't believe that you can feel the full hurt and still love her. To her its your feelings that threaten her security, instead of her actions. I'm no expert but I think that realization comes slowly. Its up to you to show her that you can feel both things and that your desire to work through it is actually the foundation of your future.

I know all too well what its like to hear these things, but you are so far the valedictorian of the exposure class of 2/7

Not so fast. My circumstance didn't get as deep as yours. It seems I am the one dealing with an EA and not a PA. In addition, the EA was not very active. Her last visual contacts were 11/09 and 8/10. Since then, some stupid emails she sent that OM never answered.

Some force at work did not allow the OM to give in to her demand for a PA. She said, "His will was strong." Or maybe, I interject, his sense of decency, right and wrong?

The betrayal hurts as bad though. Knowing she was determined to leave the marriage and determined to have an affair. I guess we're lucky it did not happen. But she really wanted it too. Also, still have a nagging deep suspicion that there was something else that occured further in the past. Maybe I don't want to know. (Which goes against Harley's Radical Honesty -- and will put up invisible barriers for the rest of our marriage.)

Right now, we are trying to figure out how to learn to be O&H and avoid hurting each other. When we know damn well that in this affair recovery process there will be loads of hurt.

Stretch, refresh me - did she leave that job?

She does not have a job. Stay at home mom for many years. Part of the issue is self-worth and isolation and wondering if it is hubby's fault I don't work and found myself in this place in life...etc. She has honestly stated that this is what she wanted to do in life, she thanks me for providing, but still she is bitter about losing a lot of her identity being stay at home mom. I should have recognized that. But also, she hates working / bosses / stress / the hours / the energy / the crapload and bullsh*t you deal with in a job. I have dealt with all that burden.

So anyway, she sold MLM in the past. She is writing romance novels now. (Her first novel, written last year, turns out was 85% true to life. All about a stay at home mom with 4 children that falls for a guitar man in a band and has two friends and a brother that know about it. So, so much truth in the whole manuscript. Boy, that made me uncomfortable for months when I was in the dark and I was treated like an a**hole for being so sensitive. She has apologized for all that lying. Writing the book was cathartic. I think I have been super supportive of her writing career choice. But painful to read for me now more than ever. Also, ironically, an insight into her feelings and an opportunity to see O&H. But I am bitter I was treated like a paranoid a**hole when I was being supportive even though uncomfortable and turns out my suspicions were correct.)

So... that's an entertaining sidenote for the forum, writing the confession novel is a somewhat bizarre twist to our tale.

Silver lining, she found out she has a real talent for writing. She is quite good. I have a lot of admiration. She has made a lot of new friends. Many healthier relationships with other writing women.

Wow,

I have been writing a "novel" too that is surprisingly true to live.

Chalk that up as another behavior of a (F)WW

sunnydaze, can you tell me more?
Are you FWW? If so, thanks for braving the heat of our BH clubhouse. I appreciate you being here.
Would like to hear more about your writing a novel experience.

Stretch - I think I'm married to your wife's lost sister. Your first paragraph describes my WW almost perfectly:

"She does not have a job. Stay at home mom for many years. Part of the issue is self-worth and isolation and wondering if it is hubby's fault I don't work and found myself in this place in life...etc. [NOT MINE-She has honestly stated that this is what she wanted to do in life], she thanks me for providing, but still she is bitter about losing a lot of her identity being stay at home mom. I should have recognized that. But also, she hates working / bosses / stress / the hours / the energy / the crapload and bullsh*t you deal with in a job. I have dealt with all that burden."

Ironically, part of the last statement is what my WW is now confronting. She's got hired at a good company that pays well for the area, but it's a stressful job. So, now you throw the marriage problems on top of that and guess what - she's stressed. She actually mentioned that during our MC session - I couldn't stop myself, so I responded with the fact that my job is just as or more stresful than hers AND I had to go to work every day since D-day. So, pardon me, if I don't feel too sorry for your inability to concentrate. I'm confronted with the same problem. The difference is that YOU created it by having an A.

I paid attention to WW, asked her to get involved in the community or get a part time job. That would give her an identity outside of wife and mother. Well, that lasted about one year, then she stopped volunteering. That created a lot of idle time, that appears to have created a lot unwise ideas, which ultimately ended in an A. So, for my situation, I want my wife to have a full time job now and all the good and bad things that come with it. It's not just the paycheck, it's the time, the fatigue, the BS, etc. Need both sides represented here. Sounds like both our WW need a productive way to channel their energy and time.

I hear you. My BIL and sister said, "Just get a job." I don't want to be that petty. I love my wife's choice. We are very fortunate she is here for the family. I count it as a blessing every day. And we agreed on this from the outset of marriage. But a stay at home mom after so many years really gets removed from the world and its frustrating. And the husband MUST recognize that and be supportive.

So since I did not see that or help her, a lot of idle time leads to some difficult ruminations.

She has totally isolated herself now. Not me. She hasn't gone to any of her classes, skipped bible study, skipped taking the littlest one to preschool. I mean, really checked out.
Honestly, I have done practically none of my work the past 4 weeks either and the guys at work I trust have my back luckily. They understand. Neither my wife nor I have been functioning at full level since this exposure.

Stretch - I'm there with you and I can't afford to be doing this much longer. I can't phone it in and I have to seriously concentrate. I think, deep down, beneath the fog, she sees it. I just think that WS are so much into their own world and fantasy that they can't see anything outside that. That's the main reason I couldn't let it just go by. The 'woe be me' stuff - well, I have to deal with it too. She also tried to throw quitting her last job at me and I shot that down too - she quit that because of DS and not me. Now, of course, she wishes she would have kept the job. It would've kept her on the road for most of the week. Good for her, bad for me.

I knew that being a HW and mother was going to be tough on her and I told her that before we moved across the country for my job. She can't blame it on me; besides she was absolutely miserable at her last job. That's something she conveniently forgets to mention now. I encouraged her to get out and do something, school, volunteer, etc. Well, that worked for a short time. Ironically, the first p/t job led to her making more friends, led to going out one night a week....led to more going out...ultimately landing me here. You just can't win. It won't be like that with her current job, so I hope she succeeds.

My WW has checked out of the M right now. She's told me so, but I keep on fighting her on that front with plan A. Obviously there's still a glimmer of hope somewhere and I hope that (subconsciously) she feels that too.

Stretch,

I finally just read your whole thread. It sounds like you are doing very well.

I would imagine it would be hard to hear complaints from your WW after "what she has done." That sort of negates everything...

but then if you want to have the best marriage possible, it really doesn't.

We are 18 months out. Things are definitely better but I am having trouble distinguishing between my BH's true unadulterated pain and the "secondary gain" he maybe experiencing. I read the thread's of Bs's so that I can remind myself of the pain I caused and try to keep it in perspective when he seems to be behaving badly.

I don't want to infringe in your club but you guys have helped me a alot and if I can do the same, I would gladly.

Good luck.

I would like to read your wife's book someday.

Good luck Andy. Know that we are pulling for you.
You want the M. She may someday see she can have everything she wants right in front of her. YOu are there, ready to fulfill her life.

We are off on family vacation to Florida!!

Good talk about O&H last two days. But we are taking a break and focusing on Recreation and Fun and Family.

SF this morning after our coffee to kick off the trip. That was healthy. Start off feeling connected and jolt of Oxytocin.

Have a wonderful vacation Stretch. I hope its everything you need for you as a couple.

Can't resist the need to post from vaca.
Getting away from it all but still so much on my mind. For her, this has been part of her life for a looong time. For me its so new. So she is better able to shut it out for awhile.
But vaca is great.
FC is her top EN. I re read that chapter in HN/HN. So I understand better. I am engaged with the kids. DD finished a book on the plane and I listened to her tell me about it. Read the first three chapters. Its a fantastic book. Wow. We played in the sand. Collected shells. Played in the pool. I stay present and engaged with FIL and step MIL. Awkward as they were exposed too and have mixed feelings. (ie SIL should have been better H but his WDD is a disappointment. He is angry with her but loves her. ) Maybe we won't talk on the subject during this trip. That's good. I am open if its brought up. But I won't push.

Looking at the surf and the kids playing and laughing and we were holding hands she said,"thank you honey, this is what I always wanted."

I am getting lots of tender sincere hugs. I like the new me.

There is a ton to process and pain and anger to come out when we hit recovery. But this is just a taste of what life could/ should be like.

Oh yeah. Almost forgot. We were playing in the sand with DD (7) when she asks,"will you live together for the rest of your life?"