I haven't read the entire thread, but I'll opine anyway.

I think men are taught to try to be deferential to women. Doesn't mean we're good at it, most often it is expressed as an unwillingness to invoke W's anger. Since everyone knows that exposure will do this in a very big way, it goes against what we have been conditioned to believe is the "right" thing to do, and what women want from us.

And when a BH feels like he's hanging on by the merest thread, he is especially cautious to avoid boat-rocking. the dynamics of breaking up an affair seem counter-intuitive and perhaps more likely to produce a bad result.

I think you're right. Some just cannot reason past the notion that angering her is justifiable and enabling her is not. Because essentially, those whose main objective is to avoid her wrath at all costs - versus the objective of saving their marriages - are little more than enablers. They contribute to the demise of their own marriages.

I agree with this. I counseled with Steve H for a number of months before he advised me to expose to OMW. His thinking was if I could get my W to recommit to the marriage without doing the exposure, it would make the recovery that much easier. After about 3 months, Steve finally agreed with my wanting to expose to OMW....but that was all, no family, no kids, etc. He called it a "layered" exposure where if exposing to OMW didn't work, we would then move on to others.

I exposed to OMW and that put a crimp in the A, but didn't end it. After an additional 4 months of my FWW trying to arrange meetings with OM (he'd moved 300 miles away before I discovered the A), I finally went against his advise and exposed to my son's and the A was dead in a day.

Did my exposure to my kids make recovery more difficult? Probably so, but if I hadn't, we'd be divorced right now instead of happily recovered. I've thought to myself many times that if I'd listened to the people on this Forum to expose to everyone all at once instead of the layered approach, the A would have been dead at least 4 months earlier.

H4U

All I can say is this: without exposure I might not be in a marriage today. And exposure definitely was not POJA'd with my FWH!

I agree with your assessment. Dr Harley recommends immediate exposure to everyone. And it usually works! What happens when folks wait is the affair becomes more entrenched and much harder to bust up. IMO, a piecemeal exposure usually results in an ineffective exposure and an unneccessary prolonging of the conflict. It is like bringing a pea shooter to a gun fight. You do just enough damage to enrage the opponent but not enough to kill him. [opponent = affair] A nuclear exposure, on the other hand, often inflicts major damage in one fell swoop, enough to kill the affair and only one lovebuster to overcome.

Dr Harley addresses anger over exposure in his newsletter: here

I was in Vegas in December and we were riding the bus. I offered my seat to an older woman who got on. They have these guards on the buses for security which I am not used to - but anyway you should have seen the look he gave me. I think I shocked the heck out of him.

Yep! That'd be me! Here I am 3 weeks from 50 with a real catch....he's 42!!!!!

Okay, this describes me even better.....only thing is I don't do housework!

Personally, I think part of the problem is that we have become an instant gratification society with lots of technology.
Text, skype, FB, MySpace, ect...have made A's all the more easy to do, get away with, and promote that fantasy.
JMHO
Don't get me wrong; I love the connectedness of those things, but I think there needs to be more awareness in setting boundaries in marriages. Maybe make it more difficult to divorce and have consequences to an A. No fault states offer none of those consequences.
IDK the answer.

At the risk of being censored or castigated by vets and mods alike, I will offer my opinion on this. And that's exactly what it is.....an opinion based on my personal experiences. I decided to refrain from further posting about my situation and some of the vets do not seem to care for members posting comments if they haven't been a 100% follower of the MB plan.

I didn't have to break up an active affair so I can't speak to that point. I found out about her two affairs after they were over and done with. Still, many of the same principals apply though. I was reluctant to come down on my FWW with a full blown attack because we had been together for nearly 28 years and we've been through a lot together. She lost her way for a while and now seems to be my wife again. I'm giving her the opportunity to earn my trust and respect again.

In my experience men seem to be a lot less willing to go on the offensive, especially if they have been married a long time. Someone above called it "avoiding her wrath at all costs". I suspect a lot of men fall into that category. I did. I wanted things to be like they used to be but without the major conflict if possible. Luckily for me my FWW came to her senses and has worked very hard at rebuilding the trust and love that had been damaged.

Quite possibly many WW see this as a weakness they can exploit to continue their affairs or enter new ones later. I personally know more WW's that are repeat offenders than I do WH's. I can only hope and pray that I've doen the right things. Each persons situation is unique to them but we do share a few characteristics in common with each other.

One thing is certain, we are all "wired for adultery" as the good doctor says. Once you grasp that concept and make the appropriate adjustments things start to fall into place.

Dude. You know WHY Dr. Harley stiffened his position on exposure. You of ALL PEOPLE know why.

Why the emphasis? Hello? Man of science?

The evidence since 1999 has show exposure to be effective, so the stance has changed to full support rather than apprehensive support.

As would be expected should any practitioner of a scientific discipline finds the outcomes of any procedure or method to be successful within a given range or margin.

He didn't actually stiffen his position at all. It has remained the same for years, but most did not pay much attention to it. It didn't appear in any of his writings until recently, but he spoke about it on the radio and the weekend forum.

It was routinely dismissed on this forum for years. When I brought it up from about 2001 to 2007, I was usually met with a dismissal from a "seasoned", "wizened" "sage" "veteran." This was a very sore topic around here for years. And unfortunately, newcomers suffered because of it. Many did not expose because and as a result, did not save their marriages.

Mel
There have been a few defining days in my life: My marriage, my father's death, my children's births, the day of my salvation.
No less than any of those is the day I choked down my fear and called OMs GF from Tesco's car park following your advice in the face of "the great and good" on MB.

I was so scared I puked in the ornamental bushes afterward. i STILL recall the exact sound of OM GFs heart breaking when I told her. But courage is not the absence of fear, its the execution of righteousness DESPITE fear.

The rescue of my marriage, my faith , my wife and my self respect began that day, and continues to this.

A plague on the losers who advise cowardly actions so that it justifies their OWN cowardly actions. I have since advised many tens of spouses to expose and ALL have thrived as a result.

oh and thanks again, dear friend eight years.....

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{BobPure}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} You dear, brave man! I will never forget that time. Your words are so profound and true.

HOld,

I hope you read the last sentence of my quote. I liked his idea. Also to Mel, you don't seem to understand that most folks here had read Dr. Harley's books, but the radio show and such were foreign to many here including me. I don't listen to radio talk shows.

I agree he did stiffen his position and he did finally put it in print as Mel said. I have no problem with exposure, but I do have a problem with how it is or is not done sometimes.

I won't second guess Dr. Harley here, but I would agree he saw the continuing data come in and made sure his feelings were known.

JL

I would assert that the books were probably foreign to most too, but that is another subject for another day. At least he did put out newsletters and rewrite HNHN to include exposure. He had been advocating it for years in private practice, on the weekend forum, and then the radio show. His position didn't change. He just did more to publicize it when he caught on that there was some question. Thankfully...

those whose main objective is to avoid her wrath at all costs - versus the objective of saving their marriages - are little more than enablers.

And for any readers interested in in-depth (if occasionally somewhat wandering) discourse on "whys" behind this FACT, find the two threads in MARRIAGE BUILDERS 101 entitled "A Question For Men Here Who Are Dissatisfied" (ignoring a lot of the content on insufficient SF) and "The End of Maleness". (I'll find them and "bump" them.)

I've said before, being hauled off to jail was NOT my shining moment, but if nothing else, the demonstration of the raw rage that eventually led to my arrest showed my WW that there WERE standards that were expected to be met, and she'd be well advised to get "on the side of the angels" in a real hurry to save any kind of a decent future life.

He was looking at you weird cuz you is CANADIAN.

Bob, I have nothing but utmost respect and admiration for your courage and your character. Reading your threads gave me the will to keep going.

Thank you GH31. I am happy to report that Squid shares your admiration of me these days ! I would walk through fire for her..... Again... Be blessed.