You don't have to. You are looking for someone who can easily meet your top ENs. So if your top three include Physical Attraction, you will find someone who meets that. Her top three could be different .

Of course, some ENs are less easily 'one way' than Physical Attraction.

It is what it is. And now I've learned she is what she is. It makes no difference.

I know who I am. I'm a caring, kind, intelligent man. I have never been, nor will I ever be, movie star handsome. If a woman is only interested in looks, then she's not going to be the one for me, anyway.

It is I who need to re-evaluate my top EN and put them into proper perspective. WxW was a very attractive woman, whose looks hid the darker, disordered side of her. She managed to meet my EN's better than even I was aware. Had I known about Marriage Builders, I might have been better aware of her manipulative ways.

So I've learned...

As I've said before, I only LOOK stupid.

My mom had an expression, 'you don't have ugly friends.' I've pondered that many a times....and I find it true. Do any of us think that any of our true friends are ugly? No. Because once you get to know someone and love them they are beautiful to you.

Now sure there is a standard of beauty that media has furthered to a sickening degree. But that standard has no place in real relationships. Reminds me of a friend of mine whose granddaughter was engaged...they were a stunningly attractive couple. I noted that one day to my friend and then said (with a smile), 'too bad that is not worth more.'

Well said. I think my H is the hottest guy on the planet. But he'll probably never be on the cover of People. (and you'll never see me there, either, but H thinks I'm not too bad, myself )

Our culture's standard of attractiveness isn't the yardstick I use.

My dh is a very attractive man....however, he is much MORE attractive to me now than he was the first time I saw him. That is in harmony with my mom's wise words I think....part of the whole ENs thing too. He meets so many of my top needs so well that I find him irrestistable.

Apparently I do the same for him...:) I walked into the room this morning with my robe on, uncombed hair and all that...he grins and says, 'you are so beautiful!'. I find I am having to rewrite the tapes in my mind because I instantly think he is being disingenuous since my XH used another standard of beauty by which to measure. I am slowly beginning to see that it is possible to be loved as much as dh loves me.

I really wish the same for Fred.

Fred, I may have missed this, but do you find BG physically attractive?

I'm sorry I haven't been on much lately, I've had computer issues to deal with and a death in the family...not a great week.

Fred, I cannot imagine being more attracted to anyone than I was to my late husband...or he to me, but it was much more than our "looks". It was love from the inside out. It's as if we saw each other through rose-colored glasses...glasses of love. I pray that for you, for when you find that, it's wonderful, and you are most deserving, you're a wonderful man...stop worrying and start recognizing your deservedness.

This begs a question I've often wondered... I know I'm not a 10. Maybe a 9 ;-) I�m a healthy weight: a little bigger than most but hourglass figure and I�m in very good shape. But I know there are women out there younger, thinner, prettier, and I'm not deceived about that. Still, I want to be with someone finds my natural features beautiful.

But what do you do when the person you are with isn�t a 10 but wants the reassurance they are hot? I ask because the guy I�m getting to know lights my fire like no one I�ve EVER known. He has a great face, amazing smile, and is very good looking. I tell him he�s hot and he�s sexy, but he says he doesn�t understand how I can feel that way about him because he overweight. He�s tall and broad, and I like a �teddy bear� style man, so to me he is just wonderful. Discovering I liked this type of guy surprised me (and my friends) because I�m athletic (marathons, boarding, tri, etc) and both my ex and other guys I�ve dated were all very fit and trim. But I�m also very broad shouldered, and I�ve discovered that I feel more feminine around the �big and tall� guys. I wouldn�t mind if his stomach was a little smaller, but it doesn�t bother me. Unfortunately, I feel awkward because while it doesn�t bother me, I don�t want to lie and say it�s �perfect.� I also don�t want to tell him, "one of the things I love about you is being able to snuggle up into you" because I don�t think he�d take the snuggle factor as a compliment! Snuggling is something I could neither do with my almost-zero-body fat ex husband, nor with most of the guys I�ve dated since.

So what DO you say that still honors and appreciates your partner while not pretending that their less-than-perfect parts don�t exist?
And so as not to be a total thread-jack, here is a thought for Fred:


I admit to a bit of dysfunction in this area, so I�m probably not the one to encourage you in this� but I�ll try anyway� Not every woman wants the movie star look. In fact, when I see a guy who could win the �sexiest man alive� contest, I typically run! I have friends that like certain types. One likes what I call �the slick used car salesman� type. Another likes the �guy next door� type. And for a lot of women, looks don�t equal desire. They can experience a great amount of desire for a man with average looks who treats them like a queen.

Daisy, maybe you should tell your new guy how he makes you FEEL. It must be such a gift to you to feel feminine around him after feeling like you were one of the guys around your ex and the other men you have dated. Tell him that he makes you feel beautiful and feminine. Let him know that you appreciate his eyes and his smile or whatever it is that turns you on about him. Go ahead and tell him that you appreciate the snuggle factor, because your ex was snuggle deficient.

And for Fred (because this IS your thread), I have a story.

At my old church there were two young men who were both single. In my opinion, they were just about equally attractive. I didn't know them very well, so I didn't have much data about their income or personality. After a couple of years they both got married. One of them married a woman that anyone would consider to be REALLY beautiful. I was kinda shocked that he caught someone that attractive. The other one married a woman who was (at least in my opinion) not as physically attractive as her husband.

If I were to assign them numbers (which makes me very uncomfortable), I would say that the guys were both 8s, and the first one's wife was a 10 and the second one's wife was a 6. All of this is to say that different people have different opinions about the importance of physical attractiveness. The 8s, don't always end up with another 8. Even if you think of yourself as a 6, there may well be an 8 out there for you.

Also, there are lots of attractive men out there who are total jerks. As we get older, we women begin to care more and more about personality and less about perfect hair and features and bodies. After age 40 or thereabouts, there WILL be wrinkles and gray hair (or no hair!) so it's all relative anyway.

Yes, I do.

In fact, she caught my eye when I first met her, eight years ago.

But I was newly in a relationship with my now ex-wife. So, because I have morals and boundaries, I stayed far away from her.

After ex-wife bailed, BG was still around. And single. So, I thought to myself...

(Somehow the direction this thread has taken reminds me of that old Confucian saying):

Funny, it is making me think of that song

'If you want to be happy for the rest of your life

Never make a pretty woman your wife

Mary an ugly woman my friend

She'll make you happy to the bitter end.'

Hee hee.

Or as Jerry sienfeld says, like flying in a plane for the free peanuts.

Sorry- late to the party. Just wanted to chime in that one of the things I've always found more or less attractive about a woman is their voice. I consider that part of the overall Physical Attractiveness picture.

opt out.

I really like voices too. Unfortunately, I don't like my own at all. The way others hear me is completely different from the way I hear myself.

Fred, PLEASE take anything your BPD WxW said to you with a grain of salt and consider the source. Part of BPD is an intense fear of abandonment on their part (which is so ironic when they are usually the ones who end up bolting) so they work hard to keep their partner right where they need them to be as far as deflated confidence and low self-esteem. She didn't want you to think anyone else would find you attractive, which would increase the odds that you would never leave her.

Let me assure you that there are plenty of women who, especially if they're right for you, will find you completely irresistable.

And just a reminder- one of the most attractive qualities women find in men is CONFIDENCE. Once you brush up on yours I think you'll be pleasantly surprised to see what happens with your dating life.

Endorse. 'Specially the bolded parts.

Hey you aren't that guy who is now famous on the Radio are you?

Hardly...

It has allways been who is in the frame that a relly feel in love with. My late W was sooo goodlooking when I met her, and she had come from such a bad home-life, that her looks accually were a bad thing for her.

I used to feel bad for very attractive women, because they could never tell what treatment was real, or who was trophy hunting. So I went out of my way to keep things real and distant, even when they showed interest, respecting that they were hit on all the time, and most of it was sleazy.

Untill I shared a common interest that was close to my heart, and sensed similar interests and moral challanges and values, there was never really any desire or attraqction on my part, but once that had happened, looks went out the window and even women who were only average became beuatiful.

With the women my wife and I knew together, it was allways about good relationships and proper behavior, and I allways kept it that way, even if I thought they were attractive.

BTW, What you said about BPD people and intense fear of rejection.....and then the statement that women are attracted to confidance.... BPD women even more so because confidant men are not hiding anything and can be read easily, so this week anyway they are in control, as long as she knows whats on his mind..