I hate it! I hate it! I hate it!

Arghhhh!

Ok. Here's the situation:

My daughter's first communion is coming soon. I originally thought I'd have it out in Cali so that most of my family out there could attend. Well, as time has gone on and I've settled in here I've had some second thoughts about doing so. I have family here and friends here and my daughter has been prepping here.

So tonight my ex comes up to me in the kid's karate class. She brings up a completely valid cricticism over something I did. I let the kids watch a PG-13 movie and one of my sons got in trouble in school for saying a$$ in class (he's 6). They asked him where he learned that, he said the title of the movie, and it was obviously brought to my ex's attention in school.

She told me that she's wondering where my judgement is regarding what the kids can watch, and to be fair, she's correct about this.

She then asks me about my DD's communion and if I was going to have it here or not. I told her that i hadn't fully decided, but that I was thinking about having it here.

She's not Catholic, doesn't believe in anything Catholic, but recognizes that this is a big deal and my DD has told her she wants her to come along with her grandmother (EX MIL).

My mom completely hates my ex. She can't stand the thought of being around her and her mom.

I mentioned to my mom that I was considering having the first communion here for all the reasons I mentioned. My mom said that was a good idea, but how would I handle the issue of my ex. I told her that I didn't know and that my DD would want her to attend and would tell my ex about it.

So we thought of a plan where maybe we could plan it and surprise her with it and we could avoid the problem altogether.

But the fact is that my daughter would want to call my ex and have her come, even if we were to surprise her.

So then I start questioning myself and all of this and thinking that this is a stupid thing and that it really isn't a big deal for my ex to attend and sit there for my DD. It would really be an issue of putting my DD first.

But I can already anticipate the complete crap storm coming my way over this from my mom.

My ex and I are past a lot of this stuff. We sit by each other at events for the kids. Her parents don't have the warm fuzzies about me, but they too will sit by me. They won't talk to me or anything like that, but they sit there.

So now I have the challenge of my mom and I'm stressing to no end over this. I'm going to be accused of choosing my ex over my family and I'll be stuck in the middle.

The problem I worry about is that as much as my mom may hate my ex, she's still the kid's mom, whom they love, and whom they will want to attend special events in their lives.

It is my DD who wants her mom there.

So I'm venting here. I'm anticipating the storm that's coming and the attitude I'm going to catch and the guilt trip that is going to be laid on me.

But on the other end I want to challenge my mom and say, "What would Jesus want us to do? Wouldn't he want us to not turn my ex away? Wouldn't he hold us accountable if my ex attended and perhaps had this event be the trigger that opened a spiritual spark in her that leads to her salvation? How could we look at Him and tell him that we excluded her out of hate in our hearts?"

So here I sit, alone on a Friday night because my wife left to see her sister, who just got diagnosed with ovarian cancer, and I'm once again stressed to all he11 because my ex and my mom don't get along and there's a major event for my daughter coming up.

I just vented to my brother about it, who says he's going to try to talk to my mom about it.

But all of this is the result of? Any guesses?

If your mom does not want to come to the event, I believe it's her problem.

I agree with you. I can't take that hate out of her heart. She sees it as pride. That somehow coming to the event and acting like she's ok with the ex is somehow humbling herself to the ex.

It's frustrating.

"Mom - this is not about you and it's not about ex and it's not about me. It's about my daughter. She loves her mother and rightfully so as we're taught to honor our mother and father. So if you have a problem with that, either keep it to yourself for my daughter's sake, or don't come. Understand - I want you there, but not at the expense of my daughter."

Inform Xwife that you expect her and her mother to sit in the back third of the church.
You will sit in the front third of the church.

What are your plans for after church?
THERE is the real sticky problem.
Are you having a party?
Going to lunch?

I agree with KaylaAndy.

I'd just tell Mom that this is a special event in DD's life and that she naturally wants BOTH her parents there, as well as both her grandmothers. This is NOT about how your Mom feels about your ex, but about your DD, so Mom needs to keep a lid on it.

Infidelity, the gift that keeps on giving. From the very first "hi" exchanged, it seems like a small ripple but eventually ends up as a tsunami.

I hate it too.

As for what to do? This is about your daughter. What do you want her to remember about this day? How can you protect her? Not everyone has her best interest at heart or they would protect her too-- by putting their differences aside for a few hours. Doesn't mean you have to engage directly with them while they're there.

I like Pep's suggestion about seating. Be clear up front about how it will be-- to protect your daughter's memory of this day.

Have your own after party. Her mom and your ex's mom can do their own celebration at a later date. They don't have to be invited.

Yes, have them sit at the back of the church since they don't really support the act of what the ceremony is about (the x and her family), but be civil to them. You just be civil, don't have to be buddy buddy.

What the xws always wants is acceptance and to NOT feel bad about what THEY did. That's it usually in a nutshell.

My xh was all about this whenever we'd have something like this happen to us. It could be a kindergarten graduation we went to. Biggest one I could remember was my son graduating from vacation Bible school. Something as innocent as that, can be turned into a delude just b/c of the crazy ws.

I've told this one here before, but on the day of the graduation, I left work early, still in my scrubs to go to the church. I sat down in the crowded sanctuary. Right before (like meaning he and the wistress were about 30 seconds from the program starting) bounded into the church sanctuary. Immediately my heart sank. Ugh. Know your feeling.

She was dressed as if she was going to go clubbing, wearing daisy duke short shores, high heels, a tank top, and dripping in jewelry and the women in the church all kinda gasped from disbelief in seeing the getup that my xh's wistress wife was wearing.

Then the xwh, whom I call Darth, scanned the crowd and spotted me! Yep me. So they push their way down the pews into the little bit of space beside me. My x positions himself so on one side he's sitting by his affairage wife, and on the other side, me.

I looked at him in disbelief and got up and moved waaaay down the pew away from them (other people must've found this silly, I know). I told my xh from day one, if we ended our M due to his infidelity and he married the ow, there would be no friendship. NO FRIENDSHIP, but mostly, I would NEVER ever ever CONDONE HIS ACTIONS. So I didn't. He moved again, and tried to sit by me, and again I got up and moved somewhere else.

I wanted my actions to be clear, I was not ever going to condone what they did, but at the same time I gave NO REACTION at all to them being there. Didn't look at them, say a word, just got up and moved. Twice!

So that's what your x is probably wanting. She's wanting to 1)make sure the coast is clear and that you'll be ok with her being there b/c she doesn't want good, decent, church-going believers to look down their nose at her. Again, it's about acceptance from you and strangers and 2)she doesn't want to face your family and have to deal with them looking at her knowing what she did, since she knows they can't stand what she did.

This is the main motivator imho from the xws, especially one who was non-repentant and continues living as a wayward. Acceptance and justification.

You see, if you totally accept them and are friendly, and accept them NOW as they are now, then their foggy minds justifies all they did to rip apart their families, break up their marriages, and lie and cheat. Doing that, accepting them, absolves them of guilt and the possibility of turning from their being wayward.

So I never did accept my x. Nope. No friendship.

My xh had a fantasy that we'd become really good friends after our divorce. That he'd have me over for dinner, we'd have great talks and good fun, and that he'd come over to my house for dinner too. Even a few times he'd joked that "once I got all this stuff out of my system (meaning his cheating), we'd probably just get remarried again and live happily ever after."

Well that's the wayward fantasy. You, his/her x husband or wife sitting by the affair partner, all laughing, cajoling, and drinking a glass of wine, laughing about how great life is now. That's their crazy dream. That all the families and kids involved would be just so happy to see their parents and loved ones "all happy" and that everybody would decide that daddy or mommy having that affair was the best thing ever!

That's the pipe dream (more like a crack pipe dream) of every wayward I've ever heard of or known.

The Wayward Life Plan:
1)avoid feeling guilty ever
2)avoid people who will remind you that the affair was wrong
3)act as if nothing is or was ever wrong
4)blame the BS for anything, something
5)avoid BS' family who know what you did.
and also...
6)avoid churches b/c they remind you what you did and what God feels about what you did.
and mainly...
7)Try to get the BS to become friends with you and accept you and your affair partner so that your affair is justified and all the lying and cheating was really ok all along!

peachy, if I may I'd like to copy that last post into the "Fantasy of Divorce" thread, to which I often direct those whose WS/XWS are making noises like "we can still be friends". Thanks for a great essay on the subject.

It may all work out like it is supposed to. I'll post more later. It will be a beautiful day no matter the drama.

I feel for you. This was one of my nightmares when I was trying to decide if I wanted to stay in the marriage with FWH. How would I be able to handle family events.

Have you had an open and honest discussion with your mother about the whole situation and your fears? Have you given your mother a chance to do the right thing%

I don't think people will see your mother as humbling herself to your X. I think people will see a strong woman who is handling herself with style and grace. They will admire her for being able to do the right thing. This is how she needs to see herself.

Is your mother active in the church? Would the Father of the Church have any influence on her in helping her come to terms with the situation?

It might all just end up working out. I called my mom today after my DD had a retreat to prepare for the day. She was all excited. I told my mom about it and she said she had mixed feelings about the whole thing.

My mom is supposed to go to a wedding that day, so it might end up working out. She told me that she feels my DD should do it with her classmates and that we can all celebrate it the week after.

My church has a "Second Holy Communion" celebration that takes place at a regular mass. The kids would wear their outfits to that mass and basically be introduced to the general congregation.

I talked to the deacon about it who suggested that my family come to that and that they could participate in the mass itself.

I think this is likely what will happen.

My mom's problem is that she's stuck in trying to figure my ex out.

She doesn't get the fact that my DD is the one asking my ex to come and the WXW recognized that this is a big day and a big deal and she has family that is Catholic.

So I told my mom that I don't know why she wants to come and that I really don't care. She then told me that I should tell my WXW that her bf shouldn't come because he is atheist.

It baffles me because I really could care less! She could bring her boyfriend, affair partners, 3rd cousins four times removed and I wouldn't care. It's not about her, but about DD. My ex and I are past all of this. We're not friends by any stretch, but we can be around each other and be indifferent.

Family seems to have the hardest time moving on. My mom's pride gets in her way.

She'll be upset because she'll miss the event, but I have offered to fly out to Cali and do it there.

It's not pride really with your mom, it's the mom instict of protection. She still wants to protect you from harm, and yes, the xww harmed you and your daughter. Mom recognizes that.

Personally if you're ok with it, I think it's fine for the xw and her om/bf to come into a church. I think the more they enter churches is good for them, because it forces a very uncomfortable feeling within them.

It always does. It's the feeling you get when you know God's not ok with what you're doing.

I think that is something perfectly fine for a wayward to experience often.

He's not an OM. she met him after our D. He is a good guy. Honestly don't know why he does it. My ex is so narcissistic that she still sees nothing wrong with what she did all these years later and I don't think she ever will.

So this is what is likely to happen:

My DD will have her First Communion with her class of 68 kids. It will be a nice day. WXW will likely show with some family, but I don't expect much of a fuss.

My church as a "Second Communion" celebration which simply involves having the kids wear their outfits to mass so that the rest of the congregation can see that they just had their First Communion and all can celebrate with them.

My mom seems ok with this and is reluctantly on board. My DD is SUPER excited.

My brother tried to talk to my mom about this this weekend and about the need that we need to move on from what happened. She's a very emotional woman. Here's her response:

Hello!

Please hear me out and don't try to change the way I feel because it will NOT happen.

I understand that unfortunately WXW is the mother of my three (grand)children and she will be involved in their lives forever.

This has to do with something call: dignity, self-respect and consequences.
I am not going to go into details of the so many things that have happened since that woman came into our lives because you all know the Jerry Springer details.

What I would remind all of you but specially HTLD who seems to forget easily, is that
HTLD was accused of being "mentally unstable" among the many things that those people were ready to nail on him.
One of the most disturbing, offensive, unforgivable things was the insinuation of DD's abuse by her own father.
(Fantasy that hopefully will not be instilled in DD's head one day.)

Part of the reasons why I was called to the stand was to explain how my grandchildren needed to grow up Catholic. Their religious upbringing was fought in court!!! Hello!!!!

Just recently I've seen three emails discussing how their mother and her lover have make confusing statements to the children regarding God and their religion.

Now!!!????? She wants to come to DD's ceremony???

I'm sorry guys but I will NOT be part of this charade. There goes WXW again manipulating through the kids and getting away with it because HTLD allows it.

Oh! It's about DD!! She is 8 years old and the one making the decisions is not her. The answer should be that there will be events where mommy will be attending and there will be events when she is not. Just like the other way around. It is called being a child of divorce parents. Tough.

The mother is not shy at all in letting her children know how Godless she is so why not tell DD that this is something that her mother doesn't believe, just like she doesn't go with them to Mass on Sundays y PUNTO.

Now, that's what I think, what HTLD does is up to him.

What is up to ME, is to make a choice and that's when I ask that I be respected. I will never, ever, ever, forever, and ever will forget what my son endured during the many years since he brought her into our lives.

You can't take away from me the image of HTLD sitting on a witness stand while her entire family laughed, and encourage such a barrage of lies. Oh! But now is time to celebrate her first communion???

None of them should ever come!! I don't care how DD feels. She needs to understand that there will be times when things will be like this.

When she is older and gets married is a difference story. Then and only then I will decide if I want to be in the same room with her other family. Most likely the answer is NO!

I could make sacrifices for the three of YOU, but I don't have to do anything that I don't want for my grandkids.
I have no rights, no saying in their lives.

In regards to forgiving that woman????!!! NEVER! Do you get it HTLD's Bro?? Stop insisting and making me feel like I am a bad person. If that means that I am a bad Catholic, so be it, bad Christian???? welcome.

I will not put the other cheek, I will not forgive them because they know not what their doing,, why??? Because I am not Christ, I am not a saint, nor do I want to be one.

So please!!! Dejenme en Paz!!! Go preach somewhere else.

I don't want to hear another word about it. I disagree with what HTLD is doing but it's up to him and poor HTLD's Wife to fall into WXW's manipulations. I just don't want to witness my son being a fool again. Nor will I ever be there again using my savings and my being to help when needed. The truth is, whatever happens is deserved. She has had no consequences for her actions. I don't say be enemies, but this is ridiculous.

Now, I'm different. My family taught me to have dignity and neither The Last Name 1, 2, 3, and 4 in ME would allow me to be different. Pride is a sin but dignity and self respect is not.

HTLD, let me know if you still want me to buy DD's dress and rest of stuff, but maybe WXW can do it instead. Anyway that's her only reason for wanting to go to church, the dress, the pictures, the grandparents being religious and participating in such a wonderful event.........oh!!! it's the same religion that was mentioned in court........in case you forgot again.

MOM



My response:

Mom,

I haven't forgotten anything. But the reality is that I have to deal with this woman on a regular basis. Am I her friend? No. Do i enjoy being around her? I really don't feel anything.

If she angers you she controls you. So I simply let go of the anger.

As far as what I'm "doing" goes: I'm not "doing" anything. DD wants her mom there. Who am I to tell her that she can't come? DD is the one who invited her. DD's excitement about the event is very evident.

What do I say to DD? "No. Your mom shouldn't come because she's a liar and an adulterer and doesn't believe in God."

There are 68 families that are having First Communion that day. Odds are very high I won't even see her until after the service when she says hello to DD and then leaves.

Please understand that I really don't expend any mental energy trying to understand why she wants to come or who she is going to bring. I also have no power to tell her she can't come or bring people if DD is asking her to be there.

I really don't care if she comes or doesn't come. That's DD's day.

I understand that you're not comfortable being around her and that you don't like her. Fine. But you go too far in insinuating that I want her to buy DD's dress, or want to hang out with her afterwards. .

That's not going to happen and I do need your help with the dress.

I love the tradition at the church where the kids dress up again for the following Sunday and have a Second Holy Communion which is celebrated with the whole church. The idea is great because it's nothing more than an extention of the celebration of the Sacrament and Dad is already making plans to be here for that. Cousin and Aunt will be here. I'd love it if you, Sis, and Bro could make it (May 15th). The idea is to do that and have a big party at the house when it's over and invite my church friends over and have a party for DD that day and invite her school friends as well. It won't be "first" communion, but it will be her communion and a celebration that she's received the sacrament.

I have thoroughly enjoyed this journey with DD. She is excited. She's learning her prayers, the meaning of the sacrament, is excited about church, and has said to me, "I loved being at church today!" after her retreat this past weekend. This has been wonderful father-daughter bonding time.

It's given me the chance to teach her some life lessons. I talked to her yesterday about how not having God in my life in the past is what has led me to the biggest mistakes in my life. That's a powerful message to give a kid and one that I hope sticks.

I spend zero mental energy worrying about whether or not WXW is going to show up. There are 68 families in a humongous church. I probably won't see her for anymore than a few minutes during that whole day. We'll go, have First Communion, then I'll take her out afterwards for something quiet at a nice place. The big party will be the weekend after.

I'm pretty sure I'd be dead if I held on to that anger from 3 years ago.

Have I forgotten? By no means. But I have to let it go and move on and not let her ruin a great day for DD.

WXW has no power over me and you give her too much credit for the power she has in my life or really the power I have to force her to do anything. I can't make her not come. I can tell her till I'm blue in the face that she shouldn't go because she doesn't believe in God, etc. The more I say it, the more she'll want to be there just to spite me. It's not about her showing up or not or who comes with her. The more time I spend worrying about that, the less time I can devote to preparing DD for the day. It's mental energy WXW doesn't deserve.

So please, by all means, plan on being here the 14th. WXW won't be there on that day and the whole church will be celebrating the kids communion.

Mom, please buy her dress. I'll send you a picture of her veil, which she picked out.

I bought her a Communion book this weekend, just like the one I had as a kid. The kit came with a rosary, a book, and a Saint Emblem she can wear. She loved it.

The excitement is very real. I don't want to take that away from her. This weekend DSTwin2 started to participate in Mass on his own. It was great to see. They're learning, developing, and participating.

What I'm seeing is that my influence on them is much more powerful and strong than theirs is as far as religion goes. These are the things they will remember when they're 30 and think back on who influenced their lives. She will remember throwing the ball in the backyard with her dad and talking about the importance of having God first and foremost in your life.

I will not spend any mental energy or worry any about whether or not WXW is going to come. Doing so gives her power. This doesn't mean I've simply forgotten the past.

This is the first of many events of this type. The boys have theirs the year after next. There will be graduations, confirmations, weddings, etc. I can't enjoy the events with the kids if all I do is sit in the audience and stew over the fact that WXW is there.

Hanging onto this robs you of experiencing these great moments in the kids lives. You're someone they love and value. So don't let this person have power over you and keep you from enjoying these moments with the kids.

She really is undeserving of the mental energy.

The best revenge is living well. I think it's also showing that you don't care. That shows self respect more than anything else.

Lets set this stuff about WXW aside and enjoy the day for what it is, which is DD's welcome into full participation in the Mass.

I love you all,

HTLD

English is my mom's second language, so keep that in mind when you read her message.

htld - Your mom rules. Just sayin'.

She does. I think she's just mixed up in my motivations. I can't tell WXW to not come when DD invited her.

HTLDs

I too think your mom rocks.

It may be manipulative, but I'd have your DD sit down with your mom and ask her to come. But also tell her she understands if she doesn't.

Or just celebrate the 1st communion with your mother sometime after.

Perhaps you could ask the priest if he could set up a time where your mother and your daughter could take communion together, to share a sacrament that is sacred to both of them.

So while your mother may choose not to be there for your daughter's 1st communion, they could share their very own first together communion celebrating Christ and what he did for us.