I know you will emphasize this but it was an EA.

One of the boundaries on the slippery slope to affairdom is the sharing of how you feel about each other. The reason you don't share feelings as this often leads to sharing of more feelings (real or not). Giving a predatory OM any access to the thoughts in your head, Prisca's head or your marriage is just feeding the demon.

Let's see what Dr. Harley says. I'd hate to think I was just buying into the rationalizations and justifications of conflict avoiding.

Mr. W

I could just take care of it, but if my motivation for just taking care of it is "so that I don't have to be subject to these disrespectful judgments," how am I going to feel?

I should have done it.

She didn't stop me from doing it. She never told me not to do it.

This is my job.

I have no idea how much it hurts her when I don't do it.

In fact, I have no idea how much it hurts her when I ask "Can we schedule 15 minutes a day for me to take care of it for you?" It hurts so bad she can't even respond to that, other than to tell me it's my fault because I could have taken 15 minutes a day any time. She sure doesn't want to participate in any scheduling, or offer any suggestion other than that I take care of it at 1 A.M.

I'm hardly required to do anything else. I hardly have anything else to do, I'm told.

It's paying the bills. Anyone can do it, of course. I'm embarrassed to admit it wasn't done. I know I should have done it. But it hurts worse to be raked over the coals for it by my wife.

Especially when I have brought up the issue, several times, over the last several months, that we don't have any regular time for me to sit down and do it.

I am tired of living such a chaotic life.

I want to negotiate it, not be DJed for not doing it.

I want to be taken seriously when I ask for time to do the job.

It would be okay with me for her to do it. I'd still want to keep tabs on it, and I'd probably need to schedule time to do that, too.

And after a day full of DJs on the subject, she wants to know why I didn't tell her a bill was late.

Yes, I should have told her.

It is clear to me that the most important thing here is getting the bills paid, not taking care of my feelings. Punishing me verbally for not getting it done is also ranking highly important.

Thank you for listening to me vent.

I guess I will just take care of it.

markos, slow down and talk in full sentences please!

Are you saying that the "it" is all about paying the bills? Does not having them paid on time make Prisca anxious?

Why do you get behind with doing the paperwork?

Yes, the issue is paying the bills.

Not paying them on time is very upsetting to Prisca, and justifiably so.

She has turned down many requests from me to do them with me, do them herself, or agree on a planned time for me to do them.

This is part of a more general problem: Prisca wants a lot of help from me, but we are so disorganized and chaotic that it is hard to get much done. I am happy to provide help. I am not happy to be the punching bag when something is left undone, especially when I have been asking for her to cooperate with me to make the situation more organized.

I am tired of the consequences that arise when I am overallocated and do not get everything done. The bills (and many other things) get done when they are a crisis, not at any planned or regular time.

I'm sure you guys can propose a lot of very simple solutions to getting the bills paid. I can think of many myself. But none of them overcome my real problem: Prisca's disrespectful judgments that occur when I want to negotiate a solution to the problem.

The problem for me is that almost immediately after the conversation starts, it turns to judging me rather than talking together pleasantly about a solution to the problem.

This is pretty simple, I'm confused as to why it's such a big deal.

You: Can we sit down tonight and make a plan for paying the bills?

Her: Sure, how about 9:00, after the kids are in bed?

You: Great!

--------------

What's there to DJ about that?

The above comments are what I heard from Prisca today.

I'm particularly stung by the statement that there isn't much that I'm required to do. I feel like every hour I have is spent doing something for my wife and family. And I'd be happy to talk pleasantly about changing up how my time is spent. Right now it's unplanned, and I'd like it to be planned.

I know, so I am confused as to why the response has been

During our FR, I turned over alllll the bills to my DH. It was one of the hardest things I have done.

There's been a learning curve. Recently I got a phone call that our CC payment was late, so I called him to find out how I could help.

I was upset but I did not get upset AT him. I asked him what I could to help ~ would a reminder call once or twice a month help? (He often pays bills at work).

Could I take over paying that one bill for him?

Could we sit down together each month and pay the bills?

We concluded that it was just a misunderstanding and the best thing would be for us to continue what we'd been doing ~ giving him time after work 1-2 times a month to pay bills. On those nights he's usually relieved of helping with the dishes so that we can both finish up at about the same time and have some UA time together.

Why is she so angry and unwilling to work with you on this?

Markos ~ be honest here.

Has part of the problem been that this continues to happen and your excuse is that you haven't had a chance to sit down with her to find a time to do it?

Do you blame the missed deadlines on this?

Because years ago when we'd been married about a year, when it was originally her job to pay the bills, they did not get paid on time, and I unilaterally and very disrespectfully took the job away from her.

I have long sense recognized what a mistake this was and apologized for it. I would like to come to a joint agreement about how to handle the situation, but we have never been able to complete a discussion about it.

I see...so you've both been guilty of not paying the bills on time.

It's a pretty simple POJA exercise.

A phrase that's been VERY helpful for us that helps us to avoid SDs AND use POJA is:

"How would you feel if (fill in the blank)." I think Kim helped us come up with that. We use it alot.

"Honey, how would you feel if I began paying the bills every other Monday night? How would you feel if I did it (fill in the blank ~ after dinner, after the kids are in bed, right when I get home from work, etc)".

I'm going to be honest that I should pay the bills. Even if she's disrespectful. I'm certainly going to make sure they get paid, now.

My problem is that she is disrespectful.

I spent all last year learning that even if she told me she was going to do something that if her feelings changed and it didn't get done I should respect that.

I would like the same consideration.

I don't like finding out that paying bills is so important to her that she is unwilling to follow the Marriage Builders rules that are designed to keep me safe in discussing it. We have a wonderful program to use to work through our problems, so why don't we use it?

I was beat up last year and made to negotiate several things when I felt very unsafe negotiating them. And then I found out she had no intention of getting to my issues. She did nothing to eliminate disrespectful judgments on her part. And now here is the exact same problem: she wants something, she browbeats me to get it.

I don't want to blame the missed deadlines on anything. I don't want to talk about who's fault it is. I want to negotiate a lifestyle that will make us both happy, piece by piece, including bill-paying and any other chores.