"forewarned is forearmed" - You don't forewarn her. Best case scenario, the OM respects your wishes, problem solved.

THEN: You must get your wife onboard with protecting your marriage -- Do that by getting His Needs, Her Needs as I suggested before. The logic in that book will help both of you see what must change in your marriage in order for it to be the best it can be. The two of you must become a TEAM.

Mrs. W

This is a little bit of a tough one. There�s no affair. You�ve stated your boundary and have left things in her court. Part of me says let it be, the other says kill it now and have her cut off all contact.

I might send him a message along the lines of, �I know you are communicating with my wife. She�s married and we have a child. Find another woman to get attention from.�

All points well taken. How about this, combining a little of all advice?

1. Do not push the "no contact" guarantee now, since she seems to have prideful trouble with agreeing to it and has demonstrated the ability in the past to change her behavior post-discussion.

2. Do continue to monitor her facebook account and the keylogger for communication.

3. If he emails her again, then call or message him and calmly but assertively ask him to respect her martial status and our family by not contacting her. No threats, short and sweet.

4. If she messages him again for any reason, as a response or otherwise (unless it is to break off contact) then re-confront her with no contact policy. This would be followed by exposure if communication continues, but without warning or threat.

5. Expose if necessary to her siblings and his friends first, but not my family or her friends. I realize exposing in waves is not advised, but in this instance b/c there is no affair (yet) I may have to pull back on the reigns a little. Her parents are not in the picture. I would hold off on my parents for now as she feels insecure around them already and would probably never want to see them again. I already have a well-thought out exposure letter composed that I can include with a log of their messages since Jan 2011. I think his friends and her family would do the trick.

6. Get her on board with using MB by reading His Needs, Her Needs and working the principles.

I think that covers it, with the exception of asking her not to go out on her ladies night, which is a monthly thing. This will be a fight, but I realize it is a huge hole in my plan because if contact is made while she is out I have no ability to do anything until after the fact.

Thoughts?

Agree with HTLD and what he suggested saying. This guy is a [censored] and needs to hear from you. As guys, we all know what is on this guy's mind--and it ain't pleasant conversation!

Expect, however, for him to contact your wife fussing about how you are jumping to the wrong conclusion, etc.

But, really, what's the alternative?

Chris, no, you definitely SHOULD push the no contact issue. This is the basic problem. She doesn't understand how damaging opposite sex friendships are to your marriage. As a caring husband you very much SHOULD push this issue until it is resolved. This is not something you should avoid.


I would address the 2 main problems: her continued contact with old lovers and members of the opposite sex and her going out with the girls. Explain to her that you care very much about your marriage and you know this is how affairs start. Your marriage has barely missed the bullet this time, so you want to take steps to eliminate the risk entirely.

Contacting the XBF is ok, but it is a very minor step in the big picture. What is more important is getting her agreement to eliminate all such relationships. It is not just THIS relationship that is the problem. It is ALL such relationships.

I agree, and to add...why on earth do you care who this guy is or what he thinks? Your wife could just send an email that CC's you to say "Best wishes, good to catch up, take care now. Have a nice life". No need to go on attack, just end contact. Frankly, I've done this with old/new contacts that I'm just not interested in communicating with. "Take care" is THE best ending, in my opinion! LOL! So, your wife doesn't have to be a crazed monster...just a "take care" with no (his) name should do it. And, if it doesn't? Well, then you know what you're dealing with, right?

I know when I get an email at work that says "take care", I take it as the universal signal of "the END".

I'm sure many here would have loved to be in your spot so early on! You see? TO me, this is a major warning shot. You got the warning...don't wait for the battle and ensuing war!

But, your wife and you should agree about why and how for the future.

P.S. "Take care." is entirely different than "Take care, Joe Blow". The second implies intimacy and caring. The first is a blow-off. A fine line. Sorry to split hairs, but it's true.

Brief threadjack...^^^I did NOT know this! I sent an email today to person that I really, really like [a female from here] and I ended it with "Take Care"...Dang, I hope she doesn't take it the way you are saying it is, Surfer! Live and learn...d'oh!

Mrs. W

Mrs. W, I suspect this may be a 'guy' thing. Or a group/area thing. I do the same thing in emails, phone calls, etc. I've always thought it was just a...I dunno...nice way to sign off.
Take care.

To answer someone's question, I do not care who he is or what he thinks, but I am having a hard time figuring out what tone to take with him.

To be candid, my background is such that my initial reaction is to very aggressively tell him to back off, then if that doesn't work start trying to get him to meet me somewhere. But that is not who I am now and I would never do that at this point in my life, plus I know it would work against me (not to mention put me in legal peril).

Unfortunately I am being so careful to keep it civil instead that I am afraid I will swing too far in the opposite direction and end up sounding too weak if I do email him. Any ideas on exactly what tone to use?

As far as the big picture of opposite sex friends in our marriage, this is the only guy who presents a problem. I believe my wife gets the basic principle, but for some reason this guy gets a pass b/c he was there for her in a difficult time. Also, she was the pursuer for much of their romantic relationship which no doubt is carrying over here. The funny thing is that when we discussed this before she acknowledged that he is "exploring his options" with other women after his breakup.

In some ways this makes him more dangerous b/c she understands the danger of exes and his current mindstate and yet she still defends the relationship fiercely. I am not missing the warning in that.

Outside of this issue we are in a strong place in our marriage and I know my wife loves me and values our family above all else. In some ways she uses that to justify this communication as she would never intentionally jeopardize that. But that isn't the problem as we know, the problem is convincing her that her intentions don't matter one bit... it is not a choice if she begins to have feelings for him, it just happens. And no matter what she thinks about the strength of our marriage it will affect it beginning in subtle ways and potentially much worse.

I just have to convince her of this, which is hard. She is stubborn, which is not unique, but that doesn't make it any less of a barrier.

I am going to continue to pursue no contact according to my schedule above. However I think I am going to push the issue hard about the "proposed meeting". I am going to reinforce that under no circumstances am I okay with them seeing eachother in any capacity. My tactic will be to reinforce how it feels to me that she was out with friends while I was home with her daughter and she very easily could have ended up face to face with an ex without my knowledge. I am going to try and make her understand that maybe she was not thinking at the time, but she backed herself into a corner where she would be pressured to lie to me:

"What if you had texted him and he had shown up. Even if you were compelled to tell me about seeing him, would you really have been able to tell me that you texted him first, or would you have felt it would be easier to tell me you just bumped into him?"

I want her to understand that this is a slippery slope where anyone could bend the interpretation of honesty to avoid a fight.

Anyway, enough of my stream of consciousness, sorry to be long-winded. This is exhausting.

Let me know about what everyone thinks regarding how to approach OM via email, phone, etc.

I forgot to respond to Melody about "not pushing the no contact issue".

What I mean is that I have already stated my boundaries and do not want her to contact him unless it is to break off contact. She didn't agree, but sometimes this is her way and she complies after the fact.

But to be clear: I am still monitoring all communication and will immediately re-confront if it happens, I just don't plan to bring it up again since it has been covered.

Chris, just a couple of things. You're getting great advice from more qualified people than me, but your story triggers the crap out of me because its so similar. And I never caught it as early as you.

Thinking your marriage is solid is no protection. My wife had her affair literally while I was at her parents with our son. Giving them quality time with the grandson because thats what good husbands do. Give that some thought.

Its not the issue of this being the only guy thats the danger. Its the idea of boundaries - whats OK and whats Not. And I totally get how hard that is to translate to someone who doesn't naturally feel that way.

The fact that she pursued him in their relationship is DANGEROUS. It means that he has something she wants. Some EN he does well. I would be trying to figure that out, and doing your own self renovations.

Thanks Reynolds. Sorry this triggers you... in a strange way it creates some additional accountability on my part b/c I know you have been through this and maybe were not afforded the early opportunity to respond that I have given.

I realize that thinking my marriage is solid is no protection, I just wish she did. And I do not want to overstate it... I think I mentioned early in the thread that I was disengaged and non-attentive for about 1 year due to extreme job related stress. I broke through this about 3 months ago and have been totally on-point with fulfilling her needs since then.

But even though they "re-connected" after I had already turned the corner I have no illusions that my neglect has not contributed. I can't erase a year in a couple of months; what is the old saying about "taking as long to walk out of the woods as it does to walk in?"

Her position on boundaries is baffling... when we first married she told me with no question that it was not okay to talk to exes on the phone or see them, but email was okay. She hasn't talked to him or seen him, but she is darn sure heading that way. Awhile ago before all this, in a random conversation about one of my exes that she used to have a problem with, she reversed her position and said she would be okay with me having lunch with her because "we were married now and have a family and it is different".

This was a random conversation, not a request on my part and I wouldn't go even if she blessed it. But her position on boundaries is bizarre... I keep coming back to the fact that SHE believes if we are secure in our marriage it is safe.

But this isn't some ex from 30 years ago who is also remarried having lunch with a spouse when they haven't spoken in years and everyone involved is fine with it(not that that is okay, either). This is a newly single, predatory ex with a history of manipulating during a past relationship who is now conspiring with her to meet with me not around and w/o my knowledge.

The really crappy thing is I can make compelling arguments about this all day that would "wow" the debate club, but when she shuts down during the discussion it is like hitting a brick wall.

She is already flat-out refusing to end contact and secretly scheduling a meet-up with him during a girls' night out?

This is NOT stubborness or a predatory OM, chris. This has already has already reached the level of an EA, IMO. That's why you are seeing a shift in her boundaries that you find baffling, etc. She is already foggy.

Start working your Plan A and collecting your evidence. Have you read the Carrot & the Stick? Are you and your W doing anything fun together? Do you still have date nights?

And give the OM a call. That would be better than email!

I agree with SusieQ, it sounds foggy which I hope is wrong.

If there are feelings left over you might well have an EA sprouting.

Call the guy today, make sure he knows you are watching the fenceline.

And its not your fault this triggers me, I blame the two people who had the affair. Just trying to pay it forward, if I can help keep you out of my shoes.

I second this! You guys need to spending LOADS of time together -- at least 20 hours per week of UNDIVIDED ATTENTION -- more if possible -- Your marriage is in a danger zone right now, so you gotta ramp things up...

If I were in your position, I would plan a romantic weekend getaway that will allow you to take a roadtrip -- Order His Needs, Her Needs on CD and listen to that on the trip --

Frame it this way:

Tell her that you realize that you've been disengaged for a while in your marriage and that you know that has been a mistake. From this point forward you want to do everything possible to make sure your marriage is the best it can be. Tell her how much you love and cherish her. Tell her you are so committed to turning over this new leaf that you've ordered these CDs to help YOU -- Ask her to listen to them with you so that she can help guide YOU -- That way it doesn't seem as though you are trying to teach her -- because "teaching" your spouse is not well received and is seen as a DJ [disrespectful judgement]...You let the CDs do the teaching...Make it a spectacularly romantic getaway...I really believe this will serve you well...

Please get a babysitter and do this, Chris -- your marriage and family are worth it!

Mrs. W

I also agree with this -- Do the romantic getaway AND call OM -- it's not an either/or...Protect your marriage while you make it better...

Mrs. W

I've chimed in before and just now getting back to your thread - I'm on the other side of the equation from Reynolds, and I'll second this sentiment - hoping to keep your wife out of my shoes.

You're getting a lot of good advice and hopefully you can stop this before it goes any further. Definitely romance her, pull out the stops. You fell in love and got married for a reason - you can recapture that! My BH did, during the initial few months of recovery, before he knew I'd had a PA. He absolutely romanced me. He filled my LB$ so completely, I had no room for thinking of anybody else...we had date nights, weekends away, he suprised me at work with flowers, he sent me sweet texts and emails...you get the idea! I apologized if I missed this, since you haven't introduced MB to her yet you probably have not done the ENQ's, but do you have an idea of what her top EN's are? At the very least, concentrate on the intimate EN's.

As a FWW, I wish with all my heart someone had stopped me. But I told NO ONE - no friends, no family, I didn't confide in anyone other than OM and by the time my BH noticed the huge # of text messages on the phone bill and suspected me, it was too late. You are not fortunate that this is happening to you, but you are at least forunate to be early in the game, here.