this is how my wife was raised. im just beside myself with her actions. her folks told her that it wouldnt matter if i was beating her behind close doors(which i wasnt lol) it still doesnt give her the right to do what she has done. She is so driven right now to hurt me that its made me want out as well. Im still in this for the kids, but dang how can people keep it up. My inlaws are huge factor for me. If they werent there for me thru all of this it would have probably been over.

Slingshot effect.. When kids are taught right and wrong behavior without fully understanding the consequences, the rebel once not under thier parents roof. This happens in homes kids are protected in.

It also happens through life in variuos degrees, when they hear about others having it made, or getting away with crap, that they have never done, although imagined it.

So now WW is only in the beggining of it, only tasted the forbidden fruit of throwing away the rudder that has kept her ship on course, and the freedon she feels from this. Its the freedom she wants, and doesnt know how to get it.

Time to get before God and realize its not just a bunch of rules to look good to everyone else, and see her heart is just as black as everyone elses. God doesn't make deals with us, but he does understand our frames and needs.

I am beliveing for you guys this is possible, and that she sees what she has been doing in trying to circumvent the hedge he put around her to protect her.

Think of a rebelious teenage girl..

everyone views her as a teenage girl right now. She is so darn stubborn she will stay this course just to prove everyone else wrong. I know her. She just gets mad at me when i ask her what god tells her, she just doesnt want to admit she wont listen to him. And coulnt tell you one person that thinks she has it made right now. all of her friends are now calling and talking to me for support and encourage me to stay the path of doing the right thing. She doesnt want to talk to any of them really.

She is so darn stubborn she will stay this course just to prove everyone else wrong.

She is probably going to have to crash and burn, without ANY hubby-or-family safety net. And you might have to find within yourself the courage to let her.

CP is likely spot-on with his "finally revolting from the imposed controls" analysis, and, sad to say, this is NOT going to be helped by recent developments.

If, as you say, she was raised with a firm dosage of doctrine supporting fidelity and faithfulness in marriage, and maternal devotion to her children, she has already shown she was willing to break those bonds in her current rebellion. And what was the result? You're still there for her, her family is investing attention and concern in helping her back. In short she totally destroyed the boundaries of decent behavior and.......no disasters, no thunderbolts of retribution! She kinda got away with it. Metaphorically, she bit the apple, and no angel appeared with a flaming sword to expel her from the home she had known; in fact, everyone involved seems more intent on getting her BACK to that home than SHE is.

Wow. I see you having a long, as yet obscure, path to normalcy.

That is one reason i was ready to go to lawyer. I wanted her to know i was thru with the bs. But as a parent that sees the struggling children, who at this point have been protected from moms ways, pray for mom to come home well and miss her and call for her, i feel it necessary to keep the door open. I have my hands tied and im backed into a corner with this situation. I have family around all the time in my house and it is hard for all of us to break this news to the kids until we know for sure what is going to take place. They are young enough that they are not going to process this the way they should.

Hard question, LM:

Your children's suffering is already a fact. Can you buffer them from further negative effects caused by WW's aberrent behavior, without legal involvement?

I believe i can for a little while. Life has become somewhat normal around the house without WW. The problem is when she does want to come see them, it restirs emotions. She has been around one time in a week, and they really didnt even seem to care. But once she left i saw them acting differently again.

I cant figure out what to do myself with the whole situation. I need her back for our family, but i dont think i want her back personally. she has hurt me so much that i dont know how i would ever forgive her.

Time will tell i suppose.

Lost - hang in there and try to buy yourself some time. Your emotions are probably pretty raw and you don't like what it's doing to your kids - totally understandable. The fact that her family is in your corner will bear some weight with her - it has to. She doesn't have anywhere to run to. So, she might run for a while, but eventually she'll tire. The question then becomes - do you want her back? More importantly is the 'why' behind the answer. Only you can answer those questions for yourself and your kids. Forgiveness will be a long time coming. FWIW - my wife shows similar rebellious and prideful characteristics, but she's got family enablers on her side.

But once she left i saw them acting differently again.

Yeah, that's kinda the impact I was thinking of. Absence, especially offset by a predictable schedule of presence, is something that has been shown to be manageable by children - "Mommy this week, Daddy next week." - not ideal, certainly, but within their ability to accept and cope with.

But "Mommy" being dangled out of their control, appearing at unpredictable times and durations - well, that's not something that should be permitted for too long.

You have the "boots on the ground", LM. Watch them (youngest most carefully) for emotional impacts - poor sleeping, or eating, habits; atypical aggression toward others; lethargy toward previously enjoyed activities; withdrawal from social activities; degraded school performance - and do not let the effects compound.

We're here to listen, and counsel if you need it.

Well im usually in the dark about what is going on with WW so i really never know what to expect. I really hate that, but at the same time i know that she wants to be with om. I'm not saying that she is with him nonstop. I don't know if her dad will sway her to do the right thing or what kind of impact he had on her in her mind. Right now the more i think about it the less i want her. I need to help to get over her adultery, but i wont start healing until she gets right in the head. Just a frustrating time right now.

Lost- just a point of clarification 'i wont start healing until she gets right in the head.' Did you really mean that? There's a chance she might never get right in the head, but you'll have to heal and move on regardless. I know you're frustrated, but you also know you can't control her, her mental issues, etc. You'll have no choice, for the kids' sake. I do believe that dad will have had some impact, but it might take a couple of days for her to proces it.

Hang in there!

What i meant by that is, healing with her if she comes home. I have already been healing without her. That is why im ready for her to split. Now i know the best interest here is for the kids and eventually for us to be back where we should be. But im losing site of what my focus has been and should be.

I can heal and be fine w/o her. But trying to save a marriage and heal with her is what im worried about.

Lost - I think I understand. My WW's struggles aren't with leaving me - that she could do in a heartbeat. Her only real issue is DS - which is kind of illogical. You want the single life, dating, etc. but you want your son too. How does that work? If you have primary custody, you don't get to go out as much. If you have him living under your roof, you can't bring home the dates. If you go out and hire a babysitter, you have to come home, etc. It gets very complicated.

Is your WW so willing to walk away from the kids? If not, it's a perspective to use when talking to her.

Andy i think we are in the same boat at the moment. That sounds like her at the moment. She wants her kids another man, but not at the same time. IT DOESNT WORK THAT WAY! What is the problem with women these days?

Lost - LMAO - unfortunately the 'problem' runs both ways...men and women behaving badly. I think it's part of the fantasy - I'll have the idyllic family life when I want it, but I want to live the Rock-n-Roll lifestyle the rest of the time. So, if it's sunny, she wants to get on the back of a motorcycle and forget everything else. Hell, she don't even want to drive the bike! It's the best! Why? Because I (BH) subsidize it. She doesn't have to work and gets to have her fun on the side. That's why it's the 'easiest' way for her. Wonder if it'll be as fun 5 or 10 years down the road.

See, if they divorce and get partial custody, they get everything they want in the short term. The bigger question on both sides is - what if a serious relationship develops on either side. That complicates things. Holidays get complicated. WS just don't seem to think in the long term, it's all about instant gratification.

...I'll get off my soap box now! Thank you.

I hear ya brother.

Yeah thats what my WW was trying to do. But since they are her kids and my step kids, I put a stop to that with recomendations from other posters, MIL, my mom and Dr.H himself. When she would leave to go to OMs, they had to go to.

Now they have all moved out. She stays with OM and claims the kids do, but mostly they stay with friends because they don't like it there.

Andy ive been thinking about that a lot today about her getting her way with me having kids and her having all the time. It just makes me madder and madder. I dont want the kids around her, but dang it would be funny if she had them all the time and no time for OM. I will absolutely not let them under her control if i can keep from it.

Lost - Good for you! I think it's the right answer too. My WW has been overcompensating a bit in the mothering department; I think it might be a form of guilt. Deep down, through the fog, she knows that this will impact DS. However, her pride and whatever else, is stopping her from doing the right thing, right now. That would be to stop looking for a house or moving out for that matter and then moving back into the master BD with me. That would be a solid start. It ain't gonna happen, but that's MY fantasy.

...it would be funny if she had them all the time and no time for OM...

LM, three things -

1) I think it's fairly well documented that she didn't just leave you, she basically blew off her life as a mother to her children as well. Yeah, she's likely to have moments of regret about not having them, but those wisps would not be enough to sustain her attention to, and care of, them long-term.

2) Make it easy on yourself - The wife with which you had four wonderful children died horribly early this year. (If it helps, imagine her falling into a threshing machine, or being stepped on by a circus elephant. It doesn't matter.) Given the fact that you are now a widower, instead of a BH, move ahead with the thought of being the sole surviving parent and raise those babies the right way, not "resenting" the lack of participation in the process of your not-much-lamented former partner.

3) Uhhhhhh, I wouldn't put too much money on OM and WW enjoying each other's company too much longer. Her "time for OM" will not be the issue you imagine it will be, as OM inevitably cuts back on the "time for WW".