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I have to disagree about him not being a predatory OM. He is proactively communicating with a married woman and it was his suggestion to stop in to see her. But I AM holding her accountable for reciprocation as well, so it is kind of a moot point.
I'm not sure what the definition of an EA is, but I have no problem calling it that. I will say that there has been little emotional content throughout the communication and it hasn't created distance between my wife and I from her end. There were a couple of messages right after his break-up where he discussed his emotions over the event, and two light references to their relationship. Nothing remotely emotional in over a month. It still bothers me of course, but everything is very surface: How are things? What is going on? Like that. Boring, if it wasn't my wife, but as much as it sounds like denial there hasn't been anything of an emotional nature.
The shift in her boundaries happened sometime before they resumed contact. It came up about 6 months ago randomly in relation to me, not her (theoretical, no actual issue or request on my part). Per the confrontation she says she respects my wishes that they not see each other under any circumstances.
But obviously she is foggy, because any rational human could look at "the facts of the case" and say it is inappropriate.
As for our marriage, Mrs W you literally took the words off my page. I wrote her a letter with the same message you convey about 3 months just after I came out of my "funk" and before they resumed contact. I write well when I put my mind to it and I hit it out of the park. I would be tempted to post an abbreviated version here minus any personal details but it is long... would that be okay or even serve a purpose?
The improvement in our marriage since I wrote the letter is why the timing of this is so cruel- things have been really, really good between us since then. We have had date nights, movie nights in, quiet dinners, and more intimate conversation than in our whole marriage. And it all started BEFORE he contacted her.
This is my honest opinion of what is going on:
Our marriage is in a great place and still improving, and my wife has no intention of changing that or damaging our family. I believe she has no genuine interest in anything with OM, however she is curious, thinks it is harmless, enjoys the attention, and maybe even wants him to see that he "picked the wrong girl" when he chose his ex over her.
I don't think he has any genuine interest in a relationship with her, but it strokes his ego to know that he can get her to communicate with him while married, and of course he wouldn't mind sex if he could get it.
And none of that matters, because no matter how casual and harmless it may seem to either of them it can just as easily turn into something else and destroy my marriage unless I stop it.
and my wife has no intention of changing that or damaging our family. I believe she has no genuine interest in anything with OM, however she is curious, thinks it is harmless, enjoys the attention, and maybe even wants him to see that he "picked the wrong girl" when he chose his ex over her.
Nope, she thought it was OK to have an opposite sex friendship and it escalated to where they are meeting ENs, it feels good and she doesn't want to give it up. Note: The problem with labeling OM as predatory is that it detracts from the fact that your W thinks it is OK to have opposite sex friendships. That is the issue, and she's going to be at risk for another A later down the lane even if you end this budding EA if she doesn't change her mindset.
Here is more of what Dr H says about this:
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One of the extraordinary precautions I mention when discussing the topic of avoiding affairs is to rule out friends of the opposite sex. To many, my recommendation seems to be an overreaction at best and downright paranoid and controlling at worst. After all, it's healthy to have friends of the opposite sex whether or not you're married. Right?
Well, it's been my experience counseling thousands of couples that opposite-sex friends pose the greatest risk for infidelity. True, there are those who go shopping for sex on the internet or have one-night stands with total strangers while on a trip. But that's not the typical affair. The most common affair is with someone who has become a friend.
Work is a place that many find these friendships, but they are also found in recreational settings, volunteer organizations, and even church. What starts out as casual conversation develops into intimate conversation where personal problems are revealed and help is offered by the friend. Massive Love Bank deposits are made when that happens. The next thing you know, you're hooked.
And later this:
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And unless a person understands how romantic love is created, they are usually blind-sided when they experience it.
Your wife's relationship with her co-worker probably began with ordinary conversation about work-related issues that developed into intimate conversation when they talked about their personal problems. It was probably very innocent at first, because neither understood that they were making massive deposits into each other's Love Banks. But before long, those deposits triggered intense feelings of love that they communicated to each other, and the rest is history.
What happened to your wife, happens thousands of times every day to husbands and wives who feel they should be able to have friends of the opposite sex. They don't see the danger of falling in love when their intimate emotional needs are met outside of marriage. They usually understand that sex is off limits. But they rarely see intimate conversation (communication of emotional reactions and personal problems) as the first step to an affair. If enough Love Bank deposits are made to trigger romantic love, then our instincts to meet the intimate emotional needs of affection and sexual fulfillment become almost irresistible
Great quotes Susie, thanks. And I see the difference between predatory OM and just regular old OM now.
I have an email written to him and I am also willing to call. But as I mentioned in an earlier post I am looking for a little guidance on tone: Don't want to be too aggressive, too passive, or too long-winded.
Skip the email and call. Email/texting is ineffective when it comes to contacting the OP from my own IRL experience and in reading here. He is much more likely to take you serious if you call.
No Chris, there is no need in posting the letter -- to me, it removes the intimacy if you post it -- I believe you when you say you have been improving your marriage -- My advice is to continue to do that -- DAILY -- It's not about what you did yesterday, it's about what you are doing TODAY and everyday -- Gotta keep it fresh...
I'm still gonna hammer you on getting His Needs, Her Needs though, because as SusieQ is pointing out, your wife's attitude about your marriage MUST change -- She has to see it as the very precious and fragile entity that it is and you must join together as a TEAM to protect it -- You both must view your marriage as a tangible thing worthy of fierce protection - TOGETHER -- As a TEAM -- I know I sound like a broken record, but it's that CRITICAL...
Without this crucial mindset change you will be left defending your marriage alone, having to look around every corner all by yourself and that is no way to live...
Skip the email and call. Email/texting is ineffective when it comes to contacting the OP from my experience in reading here. He is much more likely to take you serious if you call.
AGREE -- and there is nothing to twist and misinterpret should OM decide to up the ante and let your wife know about your contact.
A phone call puts him on the spot and makes him squirm -- and makes you REAL to him...
I will call him. He is in a cust service position and has 3 public cell numbers I have found so far, but i will check her phone and see if it is stored there also.
Worst case I can call them all and leave a message. Any ideas on how to achieve a call back if he doesn't answer? In that case I guess the email could be a back up plan.
I will call him. He is in a cust service position and has 3 public cell numbers I have found so far, but i will check her phone and see if it is stored there also.
Worst case I can call them all and leave a message. Any ideas on how to achieve a call back if he doesn't answer? In that case I guess the email could be a back up plan.
Do not leave a message! A "Come to Jesus" moment needs to be delivered in REAL TIME, Chris! Strength and Confidence...
but i will check her phone and see if it is stored there also.
Chris, have you checked her cell phone records yet? There is a good chance that if they are talking/texting, she is erasing the history. Be sure to do that...
Yes, I have checked the cell phone records for all of the numbers I can find for him and found nothing. Last time I checked there was no number saved for him in her phone, although i'm sure she has it memorized (they were together for 8 years).
Incidentally, she also has not erased a single facebook message from her account so they are all right there on her phone (including the one about meeting) which has no password. And the day I discovered the communication she had left it open to the actual message on our computer, so there doesn't appear to be any attempt to hide it.
Mrs W, I will avoid email even as a back up plan and call all numbers w/o leaving a message until I reach him or get a call back.
