Cemar, I was/am/can be guilty of this, too.

Now, there are at least three potential Love Busters involved in this action and attitude;

1) In your quietness, you are guilty of being Dishonest by omission. If you do not state there is an issue, then the issue cannot be addressed.

2) Independent behavior - this may be a stretch, but I'm beginning to believe it isn't much of one. In your insistence on "retreating to your mancave" to sulk, or distract yourself, or solve an issue that is a marital issue by your self, you are exhibiting an independent behavior.

3) Angry outburst - now, I realize that the first two actions are taken to avoid this Love Buster, but something that you have to acknowledge is that the longer you let things build, the less capable of communicating respectfully you will be.


Have you bought the Love Busters book, Cemar? Or are you content to keep people here going in circles chomping at the bit?

Markos, I remember when you first came to the site. You are awesome. It's so encouraging to se the progress in your marriage.

Vibrissa:

First, I am not asking for any guarentees. Second, what you're all thinking is phase 2, I would actually consider phase 1. Phase 1 is building romantic love, and this includes the woman's efforts. Phase 2 is completely different. Phase 2 is FIX the DESIRE problem. To be blunt, LOVE is not enough. You have to have "cherish". You have to SHOW your spouse that you WANT them, that you DESIRE them. Desiring to meet their needs has NOTHING to do with real DESIRE. If you are not SEXUALLY desiring your spouse, than you are not desiring them, you do not WANT them. You may love them, but so what. DEsire is JUST as important as love.

Do you have any DESIRE to meet your wife's needs?

Do you cherish your wife?

writer1:

Do I desrie to meet my wife'e needs? Not really. I desire to meet the needs of the woman I married 25 years ago. WHo she is today, no.


Do I cherish my wife, YES. I physically do desire my wife. Cherish does mean to have physical desire for another person.

This is 2 completely different forms of desire.

Here is Merriam-Webster's official definition of the word cherish:

a : to hold dear : feel or show affection for <cherished her friends>
b : to keep or cultivate with care and affection : nurture <cherishes his marriage>

Where does it mention physical desire in this definition?

Cherishing someone has nothing to do with having physical desire for them.

It has to do with caring about them and about their feelings, and having a desire to nurture that care and affection.

Nothing you have ever posted here has given me any reason to believe that you cherish your wife. You really don't seem to care about her or her feelings at all.

Writer1:

One of the meanings of chersih is to desire. It sure is not LOVE, because love was already mentioned in the vows before cherish.

Show me a dictionary definition that defines cherish as a desire to have sex with your spouse.

Hmmm. I cherish the ring my grandmother left me when she died. I don't physically desire it. But I definitely cherish it.

I have a real problem with this:

As usual, you are projecting your own ENs onto your wife. What if she said, "If you are not SEXUALLY desiring having long conversations with your spouse, than you are not desiring them, you do not WANT them."
Or, "If you are not SEXUALLY desiring buying roses every day for your spouse, than you are not desiring them, you do not WANT them." Or, "If you are not SEXUALLY desiring cooking all meals and cleaing the house for your spouse, than you are not desiring them, you do not WANT them." How would you feel if your wife said any of these, Cemar?

You know, I wrote the above post before I read the locked thread. I stick to my earlier opinion, posted on an earlier page in this thread. Cemar, you don't want a marriage or a relationship of any kinds. What you are looking for is avaible on street corners all over. You can probably order it online as well.

And there's no possiblity that language is redundant, or could be inadvertently used redundantly.

cemar - can you answer a basic question for me?

You've read all my posts describing sexual interactions between my husband and myself.

Would you say I have 'failed'?

Vibrissa:

It depends. If your husband is content with a romnatic love marriage, then maybe your successful. If he is looking for a passionate marriage, then you are not successful. Do you show your husband that he TURNS you ON just becasue he exists? Do you show your husband that you physically WANT him, to meet YOUR physical needs, just because he exists. If you want examples of how to appear HD to your husband, I have dozens.

You want to turn your wife on just by existing?

Wow.

"Just exists" = no effort is required on the husband's side.

Cemar, why don't you send your questions in to Marriage Builders radio and get Dr. Harley to answer them?

Well, if you want to turn your wife on just by the mere fact that you exist, wouldn't that mean that your wife could get turned on by just about any man on the planet? I mean, they all exist right? And that's all it should take, according to you.

I have no desire to appear to be anything other than what I am.

So you are saying my husband has settled without a passionate marriage?

I believe he would disagree.

And so do I.

There is plenty of passion in our marriage. There is also love, nurturing and care.

My husband turns me on - but not by merely existing. I want him to meet my physical needs because he has made himself attractive. If he wasn't meeting my need for affection, honesty or conversation you can bet I wouldn't want him to meet my need for Sex.

I don't physically WANT sex. My body does not have the need to orgasm yet, and it's been a couple of weeks. Oh well - that isn't my fault and it isn't my husbands, that is my body's thing.

It is so liberating to not be a slave to my body.

To not feel driven to copulate with any available penis that happens to be laying around... existing.

Or to go without physical intimacy because my body doesn't happen to be surging with hormones for some complex, unknown reason.

To chose to give my body out of love is much more fulfilling than being compelled to do so out of lust.

I'm glad that sex doesn't have to be just a base, animal desire.

Animals mate because there is a body existing willing to copulate. I don't have to.

I don't want to 'appear' HD. I don't want to lie. I don't want to fake anything. I want to demonstrate that I love my husband. I want to be radically open with him. I want to expose all of myself - my feelings, thoughts, urges and desires and the lacks thereof. I want him to love me as I am, as I love him.

I don't want to appear to be anything.

I can be passionate, loving, and caring. I can allow myself to be pleased by him without the raging hormonal drive - which is less about love, and more about lust. I don't want to want any man, I want to want my husband and only him. Because of that not just any man can get into my bed. Mere existence is not enough.

I don't know why I keep trying here.

I am glad others have found my words helpful... but I'm sick of being told I'm a failure for something out of my control. I am not. I know I'm not and my husband knows I'm not. That is enough.

I think this thread needs a dictionary definition of "narcissist" instead of "cherish."

Just IMHO.