I am working on Emotional Honesty. However, I am having a hard time avoiding Disrespectful Judgments when I express my feelings to my spouse.

Currently, what occurs is that DH hears my feelings, then gets defensive because he feels I am judging him; he feels accused. According to MB, the person who feels a love buster is being made is the best judge of that, so I am not questioning whether or not I actually made a DJ. If he perceived it as such, then I have to find a way to express myself that doesn't make him feel it is a DJ. The question is, how?

I have tried using "I statements" - for example, "I feel concerned because you were not being entirely honest with me."

When I say he was not being honest, he feels this is a disrespectful judgment - I am calling him a liar.

How do I address our problems, for example when he is engaging in a love buster (dishonesty) or he is not meeting my Emotional Needs? In MB, the focus is on negotiating with your spouse in a respectful manner. How do you negotiate when what you want is an understanding of the other spouse's reasons for doing something? In this case, an understanding of what motivated him to choose dishonesty and not feel he could be forthcoming?

How do you negotiate when the other person does not want to participate in those negotiations because he feels defensive about it? If you insist upon negotiations wouldn't that be a selfish demand? On the other hand, how can you implement the POJA without negotiations?

If the other spouse refuses to negotiate, there would still not be an enthusiastic agreement, because then the spouse who wanted to negotiate would be unhappy because whatever was bothering her is not being addressed. My husband just wants to leave it alone and not have to deal with it, whereas I want to deal with something that concerns me or hurts my feelings.

In this case, one way or the other, someone wins and the other person loses, if the negotiation is about whether or not to negotiate!

Help, please!

I'm excited to hear the responses, my DH and I struggle with this.

He says "I" statements are selfish, and they make him uncomfortable. And, like your DH he'd rather avoid a topic rather than talk about it. But, we've gotten better about that.

Hi, vlnist, I posted on the other thread you commented on, and you might want to take a look at that:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...flat&Number=2489646&#Post2489646

But dishonesty is kind of a bigger problem that what I addressed there. Can you tell us what your husband is being dishonest about?

It sounds like you've been taking a look at the Marriage Builders principles for a while; am I right? I looked at this website for seven years before I finally started posting and getting help correcting my own disrespectful judgments and other love busters.

What I really think would help in this situation is to get your husband on board somehow. If he is routinely dishonest with you, it sounds like he does not want a marriage relationship!

If you take a look at this page about honesty:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_honesty.html
Can you tell us what areas of honesty you feel your husband has trouble with?

This is true, but it's not a license for a spouse to engage in love busters like independent behavior and dishonesty and then claim that the other spouse is disrespectfully judging them when they call them on that.


"I need you to be honest with me" is not a love buster, in my opinion. "It bothers me when you lie to me" is also not a love buster, in my opinion. I'd be interested in getting some more input from other folks.

In my opinion, in a good marriage, honesty is not something you negotiate. You have to be radically honest with each other in order to have a good marriage.

I'm betting your husband doesn't believe this, so something needs to be done to get him sold on the idea that this is going to make a better marriage for HIM. Would he be open to reading (or listening to the audio edition of) any Marriage Builders books? He really needs to go through Love Busters, if possible, but there's audio for Fall in Love Stay in Love and His Needs Her Needs and those would still have some helpful material about honesty.

I just realized you are saying your husband is saying you are engaging in Disrespectful Judgments. Has your husband done any Marriage Builders reading? It sounds like he is a little bit familiar with the concepts.

Here are some good suggestions for statements to use to express concern about something you need changed in your marriage without making a disrespectful judgment:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2460213#Post2460213

I've culled these from listening to Dr. Harley's Marriage Builders radio for hours and hours.

The thing to think about is how you respond when the answer is "no." If you are asking for something and the answer is "no," do you blow up? Do you answer with a disrespectful judgment about how your husband should do what you want? Do you withdraw? Or do you keep trying to move forward positively? If you can't take a "no," you are starting out with a selfish demand.

But for the case of honesty, it's not really a selfish demand to want your husband to be honest. He needs to be honest if you are going to have a good marriage. It's understandable to feel upset if he doesn't want to do this ... because dishonesty is a love buster. But it's still not going to be helpful to respond with love busters of your own.

Have you asked him how he would prefer you to word your statements? It might help if you two were on the same level when communicating. Because the marriage should be open and safe enough to express concerns or complaints. But a spouse can't just say "I feel offended when you complain." Nothing would ever get resolved then.

Are you being specific in your complaints rather than generalities?

Here's another approach:

"Do you agree that dishonesty in marriage is a problem?"

or

"Do you believe that husbands and wives should always tell each other the complete truth?"

I think here the main problem is that your husband doesn't feel this way. But his answer will tell you a lot. If he does feel that husbands and wives should always be honest with each other, you will have a much easier time persuading him to be honest with you.

It's selfish to want to gain at your spouse's expense.

It's not selfish just to want something.

Millions of husbands would love to have sex every night. That's not selfish. What would be selfish would be forcing their wives to have sex on demand with them, any time, all the time, without any respect for his wife's feelings if she wants to decline.

Millions of wives would love for their husbands to make more money. That's not selfish. What would be selfish would be demanding that the husband spend all of his money the way she wants without any consideration for his feelings, or demanding that he take a job he despises in order to make more money.

I am on my phone right now, reading, and these responses have been excellent. I will post more specifics when I have access to a real keyboard. Thank you all!

I have been reading HNHN and LB in an effort to repair our relationship and avoid mistakes that led to my DH's EA last fall. I have just introduced him to this website and he has been reading about the basic concepts, so that's a start.

The dishonesty is a protective response for him, as he comes from an extremely controlling, volatile and critical family. We have discussed this and he knows why he does it, but it is a lifelong habit to protect himself. Obviously the EA made it even worse. It's a work in progress.

I thought I was avoiding the 3 big abusive behaviors, but he didn't see it that way. My labeling of my criticism as a disrespectful judgement was my own based on his response, as he felt unfairly accused and defensive. Whatever my approach was, it failed to get the desired cooperation, despite that I was trying to be calm and reasonable and keep his feelings in mind. I even acknowledged his feelings and apologized many times. However, he didn't see it that way, and I guess that is what matters in negotiations, how it actually comes across to the spouse, rather than your intentions.

I think the basic issue can be found in Dr Harley's article about complaining in marriage. Your H views your complaints as an irritation rather than an opportunity to make improvements. In a good marriage, a complaint is an opportunity to make improvements, in a bad marriage it is an irritation. I used to practice independent behavior and when my H pointed out that this bothered him I would accuse him of "putting me down" because I was thoughtless and selfish.

Check this out:

Complaining in Marriage

Dear Dr. Harley,

My wife says that she wishes she could talk to me about the things
she is dissatisfied with in our marriage, so they could be addressed.
But when she does talk to me about these things, I get frustrated
because it seems like she is never happy with me. The progress I
make doesn't seem to matter.

I often see her explaining what she is upset about as complaining and
only focusing on the negative. I don't often feel like she has
recognized the good things about us. I want her to be more positive.
I think she complains too much and does not see the good in some
situations. I want her perspective to change, but she doesn't think
she has to do something different to make this happen.

Thanks for your help.

R.D.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Dear R.D.

On average, women complain far more often than men, in both good and
bad marriages. But there is a difference in how the complaints are
received in those marriages. In good marriages, a complaint is
regarded as a problem to be solved with wisdom and compassion. In
bad marriages, a complaint is viewed as an unnecessary irritant --
something that should be either ignored or reacted to with anger and
disrespect.

Remember what a complaint is -- it's a reminder that you are losing
love units in your account in your wife's Love Bank. She is simply
giving you accurate information about the present state of your
relationship. While it may be discouraging to hear that you are
losing ground, to be kept in the dark about such losses would be
worse in the long run.

More than anything else, your wife wants to be in love with you, and
you want her to be in love with you. So to achieve that crucial
objective you must know when her love for you is being threatened by
behavior that makes her unhappy. If your marriage has any hope of
recovery, she must tell you how she feels about your behavior, and
you must make corrections to eliminate her negative reactions.

Your wife's high incidence of negative reactions simply reflects the
number of issues that have yet to be resolved in your marriage. If
you want her to be more positive, you must address those issues, and
eliminate them one at a time. You've had success in the past, and
she has been very encouraged when that happens. But when you seem
to be overwhelmed by it all, and tell her that she must learn to be
more positive, she feels hopeless because there remain many issues
that must be resolved if she is to be happy and in love with you.

The harder you try to become sensitive to your wife reactions, the
more successful you will become in doing what it takes to make her
happy. The more you try to avoid anger, replacing it with empathy
(an effort to try to understand how your wife feels without being
defensive), the more your wife will feel your care for her, and
that in itself will make massive Love Bank deposits.

Remember, all of your efforts on your wife's behalf make a
difference in the way you think and behave. You are rerouting
neural pathways in your brain that will make it easier for you to
care for her in the future. While it may seem like a lot of
effort now, in the future, it will be almost effortless to address
your wife's complaints, and solve her problems with compassion.

Best wishes,

Willard F. Harley, Jr.

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I have been reading HNHN and LB in an effort to repair our relationship and avoid mistakes that led to my DH's EA last fall. I have just introduced him to this website and he has been reading about the basic concepts, so that's a start.

The dishonesty is a protective response for him, as he comes from an extremely controlling, volatile and critical family. We have discussed this and he knows why he does it, but it is a lifelong habit to protect himself. Obviously the EA made it even worse. It's a work in progress.

Why don't you tell your story?

@alexcarter, I'm sure this is the way my H sees things, in terms of his reasons for dishonesty. When I find out about a lie, he invariably asks, "how would have you reacted if I had told you the truth?" I reply that it would have been much better than the lie. Despite what I tell him, he believes that what I am actually upset about is whatever it was he was untruthful about to begin with, and not the dishonesty. He doesn't believe me.

Using your example, had he forgotten to mail something, that is not something I would get upset about. I might comment on it, or ask him about it, but that's it. However, if he fibbed about it, I would be pretty unhappy about that.

Again, I really think this goes back to his family. They are extremely critical, and believe in "teaching a lesson" when someone makes a mistake. Lots of yelling and not speaking for months at a time. They blame and insist upon apologies, because it's all about who "started it" - not taking any blame on themselves for their own over the top reactions in a conflict. I am not like that, but he responds to me like I am his parents.

The problem is, he hasn't tried being honest since his first instinct is the "get out of trouble" lying. I don't feel I have had the opportunity to react in a calm way to the truth, as I typically only find out the truth on my own after he has already been dishonest. I do not get to make him feel safe telling me the truth because he hasn't given me the chance.

The problem sometimes is, I don't KNOW he lied, but I suspect it. I then ask questions to try to find out the truth. After that, he's already on the defensive since I'm asking him questions and implying he's not being straight with me (even though I'm right). When I ask why he wasn't honest to begin with, then things go downhill quickly. I am often concerned as to why he would have thought he would have had to lie to me, but he is so focused on being caught in a lie that he doesn't understand that mainly I am concerned about his lack of trust in my being able to handle the truth to begin with.

The entire story would take a while. Bottom line was, after kids he didn't feel that I was meeting his emotional needs anymore (which I totally understand) and felt isolated and angry. His anger and distancing made me distance myself from him even further. A coworker came along who gave him lots of attention, they had some things in common, and pretty soon they were texting all day/night, working late so they could chat, doing coffee breaks together, he was bringing her little gifts, etc. It was when they went to dinner and a movie together and he gave me a story that sounded suspicious that I got suspicious, did some digging, and found out about it. Whatever feelings were between them weren't openly acknowledged - it had not reached that point yet. She claims that she was just being a "good friend." He admitted to an EA and infatuation with her. After D-day, it took 3 more months for him to let her go and commit fully to me, though she is still part of the group he hangs out with at work. The good thing is (at least regarding the OW), there have been mass layoffs announced where he works so that will soon not be an issue.

I take full responsibility for not meeting his needs. I was misguided in that I thought focusing on my children was the right thing to do, and that he would understand that it was only temporary. Obviously, I was sadly mistaken. We were both vulnerable given the state of our relationship, as neither of us was getting our needs met, but he was the one to whom the opportunity presented itself.

My focus has been to do all I can to prioritize him and our marriage now, and he says he is happier with us than he has been for years, so we are moving in the right direction. It is just a long uphill climb to get where we need to be. There's a lot of fixing to do.

So, alexcarter, why do you put up with this? Your wife treats you like crap and instead of confronting her about her abusive behavior, you lie and indulge in passive aggressive stuff like not doing what she ordered you to do and then having to lie about that.

This issue is not you being a habitual liar, the issue is that you act like a doormat for your wife to wipe her feet on. You're a naughty little boy that your wife has to discipline and tell what to do.

For the OP, alexcarter has a very good point though. Can your husband talk to you? You've told us about his family, does he see you as being the same way?

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and that he would understand that it was only temporary.

This is a very common situation. Unfortunately, for a lot of men, the "temporary situation" can often last for a decade or two.

It is good that you are here, you say that you have read the HNHN book, has your husband?

Yes, he does talk to me, a lot. In fact that is one of my emotional needs that he meets very well, and always has. It is when he feels guilty about something he is doing or knows that I won't approve that he is prone to dishonesty.

We have talked about this and he knows I'm not like them. I don't react the way they do, we do resolve our issues and make up within a reasonable period - assuming the issue is there to address and we are being emotionally honest with each other instead of keeping it to ourselves to avoid conflict. We do not do the whole "not speaking" and "teaching a lesson" thing.

Certainly we have many things to improve upon, but we are doing much better than either of our families of origin. I'm not sure if that's saying much, but I do know it is especially hard to break habits established and perpetuated by your own family. In that respect, he knows that I don't judge him for the deeper reasons for his dishonesty. I have deep sympathy for what he has gone through and have been there for him for support through the many conflicts he has had with them. It's like his family gives him no choice but to lie or avoid them, because the consequences for honesty can be far too painful.

No, he hasn't. I haven't asked him to, although I have asked him to complete an EN questionnaire and he took a look at the LB in the Basic Concepts section of this site.

He is not one to want to think too deeply about or analyze problems. He finds it easier to just avoid uncomfortable situations. He says has other, more important issues (finding a new job) to deal with right now. I understand the stress he is under due to the layoffs and also the pain associated with the EA and the fact that he would prefer to forget about it. However, I did say that our marriage really does need his attention every day to succeed. Just as I should not have put him "on hold" due to having small children, he should not put me "on hold" as he finds a new job. He said he couldn't work on MB every day, but when I told him I didn't expect him to spend a great deal of time on it - just 5 minutes a day would help! - he agreed he could spare 5 minutes. Yesterday he read all the LB and found them very interesting. He said there were "a lot of things I didn't realize I was doing." I told him that it was the same for me, and I was sure he would recognize the things that I do as well.

I am hopeful, but it is discouraging when I try to follow the MB approach and be non-confrontational and it spirals out of control anyway.

The fact of the matter is we are both trying and both want a great marriage. It is just finding the right way to make it work that is the challenge.

Actually, earlier in my recovery from the EA, I was deeply hurt that he didn't love me for "who I was." I believed in unconditional love as the ideal for marriage. After reading HNHN and LB I now know why that doesn't make sense. I also have come to realize that, if he fell out of love with me, it was due to my bad habits rather than who I am as a person. Somehow that helps me not take it so personally and feel less rejected. It also empowers me because those habits are something I can change, whereas who I am at my core is something that I cannot.

4

vlnst, the above is the biggest problem in your marriage. As long as he continues to see the OW at work, he can't withdraw from his affair and draw TO the marriage. So basically you are spinning his wheels until all contact has ended. He is probably lying about a lot more than you think because he is in an affair. Cheaters are liars. It comes with the territory. Do you snoop on him? Have you been checking his phone bills? I would put a GPS on his car and a voice activated recorder in his car.

VEry few marriages ever recover from affairs: 20%. Usually they limp along in a crippled version of the pre-affair marriage and other affairs follow. It is clear that your H has very poor boundaries around women and I wonder has been done to correct that?

Is the OW married and if so, does her H know about this affair?

Check this out:

here

I am quite confident that the EA is over. Yes, I checked anything and everything and dug up all kinds of evidence last fall. There is nothing now. I have access to all phone records, his cell, his computer, you name it. He is coming home on time, tells me when and where he will be places, and in all ways being accountable for his comings, goings, and whereabouts.

Actually, the OW got upset and spilled the beans to his group of work friends because she was so offended I was accusing her of an EA with my H. She complained to all her/his friends. My H's best friend then spoke with him about it - H had to admit to his mistake and had to apologize to all his friends for dragging them into the drama. I have verification that this occurred, and H and his best friend came up with a plan to avoid contact except in the context of the larger group, and even then they are avoiding going to lunch together. What happened to my H was also a wake-up call to his best friend that he had also been far too familiar with this woman, and didn't want the same thing to happen to him.


No, she is single. She is estranged from her FOO, has an ex-fiance who is now engaged to another woman with whom she still is way too intimate (friends with benefits, apparently), plus she can't get along with her boss or her colleagues. She is always throwing a fit about something. She generally has poor boundaries, enjoys negative attention, and I have decided likes attention from men but doesn't want a committed relationship. In other words, she likes to borrow other people's husbands/fiances/boyfriends.

As I mentioned before, in a matter of a month or two there will be no more contact at work, because there will be mass layoffs and my H and everyone he works with will be out of a job. This is an absolute certainty, and will likely mean a move to a different state for us, the OW, or both. We are sticking it out until he is either laid off and sent home for good, or finds a new position, whichever comes first.