How do you all interact with your ex's if you have children and must communicate with them? Are you civil but detached? Friendly?

How about if you are dating someone that has different ideas about boundaries with their ex? How do you handle that?

The guy I'm seeing has been driving me crazy with (what I consider to be) poor boundaries and his ex. Talking to her on the phone about things like who she's dating, what car she's going to buy, etc. And even having her over to his house for dinner when his parents come to visit prior to their child's school function.

Sidney, I don't know what's "normal." My divorce is scheduled to be final later this month, but my WstbXH is a terrible father. He hasn't seen our teenage sons since Christmas Day. Lately, all communication has been email from him and I have responded by snail mail. That's it. I have not laid eyes on the man since, ummm, early December when the custody agreement was filed in court.

In my opinion, an ideal relationship with an ex would include brief, friendly emails and texts that are strictly about the children and their schedule/welfare. Phone calls should be reserved for things like medical emergencies. At events for the children where both parents should attend, I would expect that the mother and father would be friendly, but detached. All in-person contact with the other parent should consider what is the best interests of the children. In most cases, that would be to be polite, but not give the children any hint that the parents were planning to get back together (unless there is a possible reconciliation). When the children turn 18, I would expect the contact to go down to almost nothing.

What you are describing is a relationship where the ex spouses are meeting some of each other's emotional needs. That's not appropriate unless they are considering reconciliation.

If I were you, I'd end the relationship. This is a lose-lose situation for you. Honestly, IMO, if they can be friends like this, they SHOULD consider getting back together.

I'm sorry. It's not fun for you to be put in this position.

Kirby did a wonderful job of describing my arrangement with my ex-husband. Polite, but detached. And after all of our children have graduated from college, I would imagine our only contact will be weddings and/or funerals.

Anyone who stays in contact with an ex is endangering their current relationship. There is absolutely no need to stay in touch with an ex. Staying in touch does not help one's parenting skills, and often makes them worse parents in practice. It is detrimental to current relationships and often causes mental anguish because most divorces were not amicable.

Another common eventuality is a resumed romantic relationship. This is why Dr Harley advocates NO contact with exes. We have lots of affairs that show up over on the SAA forum that began when a spouse stayed in touch with an EX.

Sidney, if this bothers you now, just imagine how much it would bother you if you were married? This guy is a huge risk that would probably lead right to an affair. This would be a deal breaker if it were me.

I disagree.

Unless I'm willing to hire a full time mediator or lawyer, since both of us are involved in the lives of our children, there's going to be minimal contact.

My ex-husband and I don't communicate because either of us needs 'help' with our parenting. We're in contact because they're still our children, and the realities of finances and schedules dictate that we work together to make sure all aspects of our responsibilities are covered.

If any level of communication between parents who are still raising children seems unacceptable to an individual, then their potential dating pool should be childless.

Isabeau, you are disagreeing with Dr Harley and don't know what you are talking about. Most couples here don't communicate with their exes. It is completely unncessary and just causes problems. Many couples manage to coordinate schedules with no contact. And they don't hire an attorney to achieve that. It is not hard to do at all once you set up a routine. Any level of communication with an ex should be unacceptable. There is simply no reason for it.

Realistically speaking, there is no reason for you to communicate.

And bullying people on a forum and telling them that they don't know what they're talking about is emotionally abusive.

Once again, I've notified the moderators concerning the way you speak to people. If I'm ignored, then I'll write to Joyce again - about you.

I don't mind if you write Joyce about me. Put me on ignore if you are that traumatized when someone disagrees with you. And no, you don't know what you are talking about. Dr Harley advocates no contact with EX spouses and that is what we are here to discuss.

Back to the subject.

I would suggest that any ex who insists on staying in touch with her XH probably is doing so for reasons other than her children. The vast majority of divorces are not amicable; they are very traumatic. So continued contact just causes undue stress in the lives of the parents and hampers their ability to parent. Raising kids alone is stressful enough without the added stress of EX.

With a little imagination and some proper planning, any contact can be avoided. People here do it all the time. All one has to do is set things up to prevent future contact. If there truly is a need for contact, then that can be done through an intermediary, but if one has properly planned, even that should be extremely rare.

Isabeau, what is the purpose of antagonizing ML?

Isabeau, did you read the notice above the forum?

"Sometimes you may hear alternative opinions that conflict with Dr. Harley's Ten Basic Concepts. These are often raised by those who have not solved their own marital problems, but still feel they are qualified to advise others. When this happens you can expect some members to explain why their approach won't work, and why Marriage Builders� offers a better solution. There are many who are offended when that happens, but please keep in mind that the ultimate purpose of this Forum is to discuss and learn Marriage Builders� concepts." (emphasis mine)

You see bullying, I see reinforcing what Dr. Harley recommends. What you're suggesting is based on your own personal opinion.

I also think that threatening to "tattle" is childish. If you want to do that why not just do it? Why stir thing up further?

Thanks for the input everyone.

I do feel like it's a lose-lose situation. Of course he keeps claiming that having his ex over is 'for the children's sake' which I consider to be bull.

His oldest DD is graduating in May and he wanted to invite me to the graduation party. Then he told me that he made sure to ask his DD if she thought his Ex would mind if I came. I can see asking his DD if SHE minded if I came. But why should he give a flying flip how his Ex felt about me going???

I agree with this, Sidney. He sounds very emotionally invested in his EX which would spell trouble in any future relationship. Another thing I would wonder about is if his marriage broke up over an affair? In marriages that end over affairs, the WS often attempts to assuage his/her guilt by remaining "friends" with the BS. And of course it is always "for the children" so the poor BS is manipulated into going along. I don't know if that dynamic exists here, but I have seen it in others.

Sidney, this man you're dating is sending a hugely confusing message to his children about what family and marriage really mean, and what kind of committment is expected to them.

It sounds like he's made a girlfriend out of his ex-wife and now he has at least one other girlfriend - you.

The kids see him having a part-time relationship with them and their mother. He waltzes into their lives when something fun or interesting is going on, and then waltzes back out until next time. And that is supposed to be "healthy" and "grown-up" and "good for the kids".

The kids are learning that families don't have to be full-time and that a part-time committment to a family should be enough.

If you have not already, please read the MB thread called "The Fantasy of Divorce" which talks about this in detail. Link below:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2279757&page=1

Actually he has custody of his kids- his xWW is the one that walked out. Problem is she still seems to come and go as she wishes, thinking it's still her home when she decides it's convenient or wants to play house. He sometimes works in the evenings and she was going in and making the kids dinner and hanging out there while he was at work!

I've talked to him about it and he has cut it down a lot- just sometimes it still bothers me that she has that kind of access to his home and life.

I agree, this sends a very confusing message to the kids!!

Oh, and thanks for that link! I will read it...and also offer it to him to read!

I think the problem here is that she is letting him meet some her emotional needs and he is doing it. If you want to have a relationship with him, he needs to stop doing that.

I agree that as a marriage specialist Dr. Harely is correct in that you shouldn't communicate with an ex. It is possible to parent that way.

However, as a parenting expert, not a marriage expert, I would have to state that it is less than ideal. I believe parents should be knowledgeable of all aspects of their children's lives and the people they come in contact with...this would include, teachers, babysitters, friends, and parents of friends. I often tell parents with babysitters that they are somewhat co-parenting with their sitters and should know what goes on there on a daily basis. While you can control a babysitter (as you pay them) you cannot control your ex, his family and his friends; however, you can be aware of what values and ideas are being presented so that you can have honest discussions about them. My kids and I discuss different rules in different households and different traditions and beliefs. If there is no contact with an ex, you are left outof a major part of your child's life.

Having said that, I do agree that your boyfriend is more attached than necessary. Perhaps those with children shouldn't date until the kids are grown. I don't know what the answer is, I just know from a parenting perspective that I would need to have some contact.

sunnydaze, you have to keep in mind that Dr Harley is a little more than a "marriage expert," he is a licensed clinical psychologist. Many psychologists can and do advocate no contact between parents.

One does not have to be in contact with the other parent in order to be a good parent. In most cases, it makes them WORSE parents because of the stress that contact brings. THAT is not ideal parenting at all.

I think it's important to be realistic about the nature of divorce. Rarely are they amicable, so it is simply not realistic to maintain contact. Many of our parents on this forum do not speak directly to their X wayward spouse and it has not harmed their parenting in any way, shape or form.

I am the intermediary for several divorced parents who are in Plan B and their parenting actually IMPROVED once contact between the parents ended. Continual contact only brought strife, stress and anxiety to ALL. This is especially true when the marriage ended over adultery. The continued contact is simply too traumatic. That helps no one.

It is ludicrous to believe that 2 people who could not be amicable enough to stay married can somehow be amicable in parenting situations.

In the cases with which I am familiar, the BS is an excellent parent. Having the WS involved in every decision/daily action would not change that. When children's lives are ripped apart by divorce, it is a natural consequence that both parents won't be as involved as they were before. Trying to force an unhealthy alliance helps no one. There is simply no reason to try.

You haven't said whether this was a case of adultery.

Ultimately you can't force him to have the kind of relationship with his ex that makes you comfortable.

I think the negative impact on the kids isn't really anyone else's business. Their kids - their choice.

He just doesn't sound like a good match for you.

I do agree that daily involvement in all decisions is not necessary. I am talking more about a knowledge of the other aspects of the child's life. I follow what is going on in school, what is being taught, what fun activities they do etc. I do not have continual daily contact with the teacher but we do have contact. I could ask my child of course but then it would only be from his perspective.

I have also acted as an intermediary between divorced parents. In those situations it was truly the best choice. The resentment and anger and abuse was too great to be overcome. I would never fault a parent (especially a BS) who was unable to communicate with an ex.

I was not stating it was necessary, I was just stating that a desire for contact is understandable. In the case of the OP, it sounds as if her boyfriend is going fare beyond what is even understandable. I would not be in a relationship with that situation.