I would be sure to speak with each of her family members and ask them to help save your marriage and family by contacting her now and telling her how wrong her behavior is. Waiting a few weeks won't help much.

Let them know that she will attempt to rewrite your marital history to justify her current actions but that you want to do everything you can to save your family.

She is 5 and I don't want her to know anything like this. She is a very happy DD, so I try to just say that WW is 'out when she should be home with us'. DD says, 'yes momma should come home!' and will say it to WW from time to time.

Past that, I have a hard time justifying bringing this subject matter up to a 5 year old

Refresh my memory-- did you expose to OM's family? Is he married?

Delta, to answer your other questions. The letter was firm, but not rude. It specified exactly the truth of what WW has become and what damage it is doing to our DD. The parts that had to do with our M were laying out what WW has done that was hurtful, what steps she needs to take now to end the A, and that I offer to work towards repairing this if only those steps were taken.

The Vegas trip was last week. I did not cancel. Allot of me wanted to, but another part was hedging this trip could come is useful in a D proceeding or in WW family's conversation and shock over what WW is doing.

North, OM is not married. Once again, hedging my bet is what is keeping me from physically confronting him fearing it will damage custody hopes. I DO NOT want a D, but I need to make sure some of my bases are covered.

OM is an unknown to me and does not have a FB or Linkedin, etc. To figure out his family ties would take some time.

You don't have to physically see him, but a phone call would defintely be in order here. Why let him off so easy???

As for OM's info, start with www.intelius.com and see if any "possible relatives" are listed. Then google their names/locations, search for them on facebook, too. Look at your county's tax collector's website. You can usually search for property owners by name and get an address.

Once you get a list of possible relatives, fire off letters to them.

I just got off the phone with WW. She wants to take our DD on a girls night to a hotel as a little get-away.

I pushed that this was not the right thing to do and WW acknowledged it, but she said there wasn't another option after last night's confrontation about her A.

She said that if I had any interest in seeing if this can be worked out, that I must separate from her for a month or two while she figures out what can be saved. WW says I am too pushing to return things back to normal when we are together that it drives her away.

I told WW that my absence from the home would seem like abandonment in the courts and I can not do this without a written MOU. I also don't think this is wise to subject DD to having one parent.

What do you all think? Get an agreement, leave, plan A, and see if there is salvation. Stay, go through the first stages of D, and plan B?

I don't know....

Any ideas?

absolutely not.
you don't save a marriage by seperating.
you don't save a marriage by getting out of the way so WW can see if she prefers OM for a month or two.

ABSOLUTELY NOT. Do not leave your marital home.

Leaving your home is like stamping your approval on OM coming into your home, using your stuff, and sleeping with your wife.

If she wants to carry on an affair, SHE must be the one to leave.

Maybe the vets can offer more wisdom on how to achieve this while Plan A-ing. But leaving the home was my biggest mistake. Not only does it enable her affair, but if you DO reconcile you will have a multitude of in-home triggers that are brutally difficult to deal with.

Carrot/stick. You be the best hubby you can be (carrot) but if she wants to carry on her A, it happens outside your family's home... and SHE has to be the one to move out (stick).

Just tell her that you are not leaving the house. If she wants to leave, then leave, but DD is staying in her home.

DO NOT NEGOTIATE ON THIS!! If she tries to engage in an argument about it, just repeat what you said and walk away.

I agree. Do not leave, even for the night. DD can stay with you while WW goes off to escape your presence.

Stay and nurture your child.

Just checking on you lliam. Hope you got a decent night's sleep in your house.

And make it a priority today to finish your exposure by tracking down OM's family. And give that POS a call, too. No way he should be allowed to think that he can get away with this without hearing from you.

Pass his number on to your wife's family, ask them to give him a call as well. What do you have to lose?


Yes, beating the hell out of him and going to jail would probably damage custody hopes in the event of a divorce.

But going to him in person, with some friends along as there's strength in numbers, and telling him to stay the F away from your wife is certainly not illegal or harming a future custody case. A phone call is not illegal, either.

Quick question...how do you know he isn't married? Did your wife tell you that? My wife told me that her OM was separated and divorcing, or at least that's what he told her. The funny thing is that OM's wife didn't seem to remember being separated or divorcing her husband when I called her. Food for thought.

My wayward wife at the time told me that the OM had a vesectomy so he couldnt get her pregnant. I asked his wife and she said he never got one. Waywards lie to each other even.. Just a means to get sex.

I have been gone for a bit trying to work on things.

Currently, there has been no change. The exposure worked to embarrass her but she is down playing how much. I don't feel the family put the pressure on her that I hoped for in this. So, I take it upon myself to make her aware that I know every move she makes and that there is no secrecy anymore.

We are currently in other rooms and spending almost all our time apart. Kind of a mutual plan B. I keep my conversations to a minimum and only discuss what needs to be discussed. I travel allot for work, so my time away is excused.

She knows where I stand and what I expect from her. If I do not see a change within the next 3 months, I will proceed to the D. I hate it - absolutely hate it. Hate it for us and especially hate that it will be the life for my DD. However, my WW is currently picking at me for everything in a effort to start arguments out of nothing to help reinforce her opinion that we don't get along. I guess if you want to get rid of something, then you abuse it to the point it becomes something you don't want and the solution will then present itself with no remorse. Thats what WW is doing.

Well, since you know the game she is playing, call her on it and don't engage. Show no emotional reaction and say something like "I know you're just trying to start a fight to jusify your adultery, and I'm not going to let you drag me into one" and then walk away.

Pretend she's a toddler pitching a fit. By showing a reaction or trying to reason or negotiate, you're just giving them what they want.

Seriously, though, every time she does something in the house (texts, calls) or leaves the house to pursue her affair, I'd be all over that and tell her that she is NOT going to carry on her adultery in your house and, if she's going to do that, then she needs to pack her crap up and leave. Put your foot down on this one.

Have you gone to see OM to tell him to f off? Would her family go with you?

Kind of a mutual plan B.

Or kind of a mutual tacit approval of her actions. (Tell us, after she comes home after being boned by POSOM, do you help her separate her delicates in the laundry?)

Sorry, pal, but your insistent "ovulating" in your thread ("I can't disturb the shower", "I can't upset the Vegas Screw-a-Thon") has demonstrated why WW has ZERO respect for you or your opinions.

YOU WILL DO NOTHING TO FIGHT FOR WHAT IS RIGHTFULLY YOURS! So, give up the pretense.

Send her a formal "Plan B" letter, as brutally (or in your case, bitchilly) as you can bring about (hand delivered by a courier at work, maybe?). Start planning for your life after abjectly surrendering. Put the house on the market, so she knows her safe haven is not indefinite. Your lack of stamina and self-respect has doomed your small chances at recovery.

North - absolutely I will. I have nothing to fear from her anymore. Her family is several states away, so no they wouldn't go.

Never - You are right. I have failed at striking a balance between standing firm and showing WW her best chance at happiness is with me. I feared standing too firm would reinforce the exact behavior she is doing. WW always claimed I was too mean to her over the last few years , and I drove her away. I did not want her to think I couldn't change but seriously, try to do that while enraged with anger over a A. Its near impossible. So, I tried to strike a balance.

I thought by holding my emotions to an almost professional business-like manner, speaking firm and factually, avoiding desperate relationship talk, while choosing my spots wisely that I could turn this plan A into a successful path back as she would see that I changed and the logical choice would be to work it out with the one who is in the best position to be her husband and fills ENs the OM can't.

Its a fine line. One is too firm the other side is a doormat. Its hard. I am not afraid of what I need to face because I am actually afraid that I am not afraid enough. This is my life, more importantly DD's life. WW and I shared a great M before some day to day issues resulted in a poor choice. I could snap this in a second with the anger I feel, put her stuff in a Uhaul and point to it when she gets home, but then what? DD is there crying, WW feels even more justified than ever about her A, and I created the worst memory they will ever have in their lives. How can the M survive from there??? Really, how?

If it does and you know this, then I'll do it. However, the harsh line seems like suicide when the WW is at the point of trying to find ANY excuse to leave for the OM. Not to make a golf analogy, but wouldn't I be best served to play for par with plan B with small hints of A when necessary and wait for OM to choke over the pressure of continuing this A? He is going to screw up. He is an impatient person who has been asking WW to move on with her life months ago and move in with him. WW's reluctance to do it has upset him on many occasions.

I know what you are saying, go down there and confront him. I WOULD LOVE TO, but fear my anger will get the best of me or that he will call WW, makes something up that I said or did, or worse calls the police in an attempt to make me look like a threat which could come full circle and haunt me if I were to go for custody of DD.

I'll let others more experienced with Plan B respond to your questions, but remember that the break-up of your family is on your wife, NOT you. She's the one that had the affair. She's the one that stepped in this.

As for confronting OM, by all means don't get violent. But, to safeguard against what you said, merely taking two friends with you will provide plenty of witnesses should he call foul. Be sure to take a tape recorder along with you and record the conversation. You should keep it short, but address some key points and tell him what he IS going to do--don't ask him, tell him.

1. The secret is out and all of your WW's family knows about the affair. He has pissed off a whole bunch of people in four different states and her family have all told you that he will never be welcomed by them. Who cares if it's true or not, what's he going to do--call them to confirm?

2. The affair is over and he is going to get the f out of your wife's life right now. [Ignore him if she says "Or what?"] He doesn't even want to think about getting involved with all of you (make sure you emphasis the plural--make it sound like you've got dozens of people behind you) and doesn't stand a snowball's chance of any future with your wife or kids (s).

3. Get the last word in. Back the f off, OM, we're all watching you and this crap is over and you don't need this complication in your life. Then walk off and do not turn around or respond to anything he says. Ignore, too, if he tries to bait you by saying "Is that a threat?", etc.

Otherwise, yes, he'll fuss at your WW and it'll cause a strain in their relationship. Who cares what he tells her. You cannot do anything about that. Let that be his problem.

With a recorder and your witnesses, there'll be no issues with custody and OM will not even bother calling the police. Now, if he does tell you to leave then do so--you don't want to get a trespassing charge thrown at you. Likely though, he'll try to cut the conversation short and crawl back into his hole.

Stand up against this piece of crap.

How can the M survive from there??? Really, how? If it does and you know this, then I'll do it.

I agree that rigorous, seemingly harsh, actions seem destined to destroy, not repair your marriage, but that is the view through the lens of the modern "DO NOT BE FORCEFUL, DO NOT BE PROUD, GO ALONG TO GET ALONG!" horsecrap which passes for modern culture nowadays. Believe it or not, most people subconsciously want to know that their chosen partners care about them, care enough about them to put up a fight not to lose them, in spite of all the relativistic humanity garbage pumped out by authors appearing on Opraah!

Sadly for your situation, that "rigor", like stucco, needs to be used in conjunction with a solid base; putting it over a cracked foundation is of no value. Given the pliant, mewling persona you've shown your WW so far, I do not know if "growing a pair" at this late date can be made to work.

BUT IT WILL COST YOU NOTHING TO TRY! Seriously, what future do you see to any life together with WW without doing anything? Calling your tactics "Plan Doormat" is an insult to doormats worldwide; "Plan Toilet Tissue" would be more accurate! She's going to leave you without your taking action. You might as well go down swinging.

lliam1, just checking on you. Doing ok?