Mrs RWC,<BR> I wanted to respond to this post,but I didn't want to do a lot of finger-pointing,either.What's done is done,you can't change that.You need to get past this.My W of 22 years had an affair,only she left me for him.Now I could tell you what you've probably have already heard,the sleepless nights,the nightmares,the weightloss,the obsession with her affair,the"How could she?".But one of the worst things is the loss of your identity,who you thought you were,who you thought your spouse was.My W and I did everything together.We traveled a lot,liked the same movies,worked on our houses together,ate at our favorite places,took pictures together,etc.When she told me she'd been sleeping with one of her co-workers,my brain refused to believe it.It was unthinkable,unbelievable,these things happen to other people,not us.It would have been easier if she'd just put a gun to my head,and pulled the trigger.I went numb,I threw up,and went into a state of shock.I always wondered how people could commit murder,or commit suicide.But both of those feelings passed through me(luckly I didn't act on them).I'd like to try and relate this differently to you.I don't know what your relationship was with your mother,but like most people,we have a mother who loves us unconditionally.What if,one day,she said to you,"You know,I never really loved you,you were a terrible child,and I wished you'd never been born.By the way,you're adopted." Would you believe her? Would'nt it change everything you believed in,about you,and your relationship with your mother? That's the loss of identity I'm talking about.That's the hardest thing for me to come to grips with today.This is probably very true with your H,too.His loss of what he thought he had with you.So be understanding of these feelings of his.The rollercoaster of emotions is staggering.I hope you two can work things out,so there isn't another divorce on the books.Good luck. --Murph

RWC's wife,<BR>People would tell you I am the most easy going person they know. I am truly told that often. So at the risk of sounding nutty, I have to tell you a few thoughts I had early on.<P>My H and I took a drive one night (away from kids) to talk. We live in a small town and drove through the countryside to a remote place that we sometimes CC ski. It crossed my mind he might try to kill me. My H has never ever showed any abusive or violent signs. Just the oppiset, in fact. Still, I percieved my life might be in danger. I also recieved some bonus checks and thought about opening a seperate account, just in case. Even if my H had left, I have no doubt he would have left us well provided.<P>I "knew" he loved me and he continually told me so, still I couldn't feel it and many many times doubted it.<P>I "knew" he would never again be unfaithful. He was remorseful, it was totally out of character and he saw how devastated I was, plus I he adores his kids, I can't imagine him leaving them. Yet I was paranoid, searched for any scrape of paper, reciept...anything for months. I trusted him, yet I couldn't trust him.<P>I would think everything was OK, then a tiny thoughts would creep in, like....he was able to lie to my face, how do you know he is not lying now? Or, how can my trust my own judgment, you should have figured this out before, how can I know what is going on now?<P>Details would get stuck in my thought process and become obsessive. Like dates, where they met, the meaning of a few items on a list of his, etc. Then if I would get one detail clarified, something else would crop up.<P>And then there was the shame, after all my H valued me so little, he looked outside the marriage....<P>Sometimes, when we had a good time together, I would feel great, almost like a honeymoon, then I would "crash" again.<P>I could control my words and actions, for the most part. I never wanted to make him "pay". But I could not control my mood, as hard as I tried for about 4 months. <P>Then it got better, without anything about the situation changing.<P>So be patient, I really believe some of this is almost primal and has something to do with self preservation, but I don't know.<P>Just believe that you probibly can not control your H's mood any more than he can, but you can make the journey easier by just being there and being kind. He can make your journey easier by not using his pain against you, but moving through it towards healing.<P>I really feel totally sane now and see how skewed my thinking was at that time.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

After now living with this for over two years now, I guess that hindsight is better.....but to me, if we could only cherish our marriage, give of ourselves completely and communicate, many of the issues that create the grounds for affairs would never happen. Certainly there are betrayers who, despite how good their marriage may be, fall into affairs, but I truely believe that we as the betrayed need to look into ourselves and realize our faluts in the marriage. There is no excuse for an affair, but keeping the lines of communication open will allow us to come to each other with our concerns, fears, needs, etc. <P>------------------<BR>Susan<P>

To Mrs. RWC. I would just like to comment on one of the statements you made. You said you would have a good couple of days, then he would bring up something from the past. I have done the same thing. We would have a great time and something he said or did would trigger some memory for me and I would sink back into depression or get angry. I have tried to control these emotions, but I can't. I can't even begin to tell you how many weekends have been ruined by my "memory". On Monday morning I wake up depressed because I wasted another opportunity to spend time with him. <P>I don't know how to advise you, all I can tell you is this emotional roller coaster is the worst ride I have ever been on. My H is doing everything to show me how much he loves me and I still can't find the exit for this d*mn ride. My only suggestion for you is to be patient. Try to be understanding. Lately, my H has started hugging me when I act this way. Sometimes I let him and sometimes I don't (depending on how bad the emotions are), but just having him try makes all the difference for me. <P>Also, know that he is not going to "just get over it" as my H once told me. You are both going to have to accept that this is a part of your marriage that you will have to deal with. When questions or concerns pop up, he should have the right to ask or express his feelings and you should be open and honest with your response.

RWC (H) here<P>Once again, Wife is at work, but Betrayed did a great job of explaining my actions and I wanted to make a few comment about that and comments about what I said in deciding to move forward.<P>A good example of those triggers happened this morning. Two months before her affair I did something I never did before, I surprised her with a sports car. She didn't even know it was coming till she found it in the drive-way. Yes two months before the affair was bad but I was trying to show her I still cared by buying this for her. After we started to rebuild I told her it really hurt that so soon after receiving a gift like that she would give up on us. Also I have a trigger that she would kiss and make out with OM in that same vehicle that I had given as a sign of my love for her. She offered to trade it in for something else but I didn't because the trigger will soon go, I hope. This morning she came in after taking our girl to school and said, you know I was just thinking how much I appeciate you for buying me that car. She was full love and sincerity when she said this and I know she meant well by it. But to me, it set off one big trigger. I know when she reads this that she will want to get rid of it again, but I still don't think it's worth it.<P>I promised to put the past behind me, but I found it very hard last night. I still have to heal and because I told her I was ready to move on, I felt unable to express my feelings now, and I'm afriad it will build. Right now though the past is not as much of a concern as the present. Even with the affair behind us, all the problems we had are still there. The only difference is now we love each other. But I'm worried that we won't get through the things that bothered us to begin with and we will end up back in the same place. Inspite of my fears I do believe we are making progress and moving forward, it's just I'm concerned about her learning my needs and me learning her's. <BR>She will be home this afternoon and I hope she will reply, not to me but to the replies made by others since her last post.<P>Thanks all!

One more thing that bothered me is something she said, I don't know if I'm over reacting and should just be happy we found each other or if its a valid feeling, in my wifes post she said:<P>"I guess I feel that he should try to move on<BR>because #1, he knows that I love him very much, and #2 he knows that I will never be unfaithful again."<P>I sure hope I'm not love busting on this, it's not my intentions, but is that a good enough reason to forgive, Harley speaks of compensation from the offender, and I guess maybe that's not enough. The compensation I would like is that her love and affection would be equal as mine to her and it's not. I could move on much easier and would feel compensated if it was equal. Sorry everybody for rocking the boat!

I am not the best person to answer here, because I am where you are RWC H. <BR>I am the betrayed wife! I feel your pain better right now than I want to, but I do see 2 things your w brought up that need to be mentioned.<BR>1. She says you bring up stuff after the fact.. weeks or months later. This is a fault of mine to, it's almost to painful to deal with right then so we bank it until we're comfortable bringing it up. I can tell you from experience it hurts everyone much more to wait. If something bothers address it immediately. Bringing it up later will hurt both of you. It eats at you while you hold it in and brings her down when you finally bring it up. See my point? If neccessary pick a night write down any past issues unaswered questions and get them all out of the way, then commit to address issues as they arise, not days down the road, when each party has had time to rationalize what happened. I don't mean only infidelity issues either. <BR>2. You did get an I will never let it happen again! I haven't even gotten that at this point. I get "are you going to continue to meet my needs?" I am made to feel like the fact that he gave up these other 2 BEAUTIFUL women, that hung in his every word, for me .. should be enough! The fact that she is committing to the marriage and working at it, is not remorse, but proof she loves you and only wants to be with you. The remorse thing ... Well I secretly want my h to coming crying to me like I have to him so many times, but that's not him. i am trying so hard to remind myself it's just his personality. Not really anything directed at me. <BR>Suggested reading // The 5 Languages of Love<BR>By .. Gary Chapman<BR>For both of you<P>To the w .. Being the betrayed, I can't tell you what a difference in my attitude if my H would come home and say ... " i love you and i am so sorry this has happened to both of us, i am committing myself to you and let's get this together." Of course it would need to be followed with action to settle in. Like .. coming home on time, calling throughout the day, talking to me about his daily events and getting the hell off the computer every once and a while. Also, asking the OW to stop emailing would be great to. I don't know if you are in contact with OP or not, but if you are stop it completely or RWC H will never heal!<P>I truly wish the best for you both~~<BR>M<p>[This message has been edited by Mater (edited October 29, 1999).]

RWC<P>I was reading your posts and responses thinking how much your situation resembled mine and thought I should post, when bingo your wife responded, my wife could have written that.<P>I am the betrayed and see little chance of reconcilliation (we were at court yesterday). Thanks to this board I have been able to get a better understanding of both the betrayed and betrayer's point of view. This has enabled me to do a lot of soul searching as to what went wrong and in particular what was my part. I recognise now a long standing behavioral problem that surfaced intermitently causing my wife great pain. Each time my wife would compare me to her father who I thought was a bit of an oddball and somewhat cruel to her mother.<P>Well just before my wife reached 40, an event she was looking forward to, because she always looks young, her mother was hospitalised. By the time my wife got there she was on an oxygen mask. Three weeks later we pulled the plug on what was left of her mother. During those 3 weeks her father visited the hospital twice to get his wife to sign papers(what a cold [censored]!). He nearly didn't go to the funeral. He was a doctor and wouldn't allow his wife to get the treatment she needed and she didn't share this with my wife.<P>Well after that, my wife understandibly spent some time reassessing her life and reached out to everyone except me. My reaction initially was understanding, but eventually my problem resurfaced and I just added to her pain, driving her further away and spiraling towards an understanding OM. <P>Her mid-life reflection is just like your wife. She sees no wrong in what she has done since for her the marriage died a long time ago and she took steps to see that the same thing that happened to her mother doesn't happen to her. She told me she went through a lot of pain before she declared the marriage dead to herself and did all her crying long ago. She didn't think I loved her. There is no love left in her for me and there hasn't been any in a long time.<P>RWC I don't know if your wife will feel the pain. You need to accept what you have - a great opportunity to rebuild the love you both once had for each other. I truly wish you both a happy future and I would like to thank your wife for sharing her feelings which have helped me understand a little more.<P><P>------------------<BR>It's always darkest before the dawn

RWC's wife here.<BR>I appreciate all your replies. I wanted to address something that Mater wrote about seeing the OM. My H. discovered the terrible secret on a Wednesday night. The next day I saw the OM and told him of what happened & said I thought we better not see each other anymore. On Sunday (at work) I again saw the OM and ended it that morning. So since that weekend in August, I haven't seen or talked to him. I guess I did go through some withdrawal, as bad as I hate to admit it. But now, I can say, without doubt, that I made the right decision and I have no feelings for him anymore. I believe it was a blessing that I have never seen him again, and that he did not make trouble for me & H. One thing that helped me through those withdrawals is that I knew the feelings I had were only temporary. The feelings were as "superficial" as they could be. My inner spirit told me that those feelings,for the OM, wouldn't last. I knew the love my husband & I had was real. I realized that even though our 18 yrs weren't ideal, we had more to lose, and not much to lose with OM. It wasn't worth it!! Thanks for all the help.

i was betrayed, and yes it hurts all the time. it was good to read how you all said it, ups and downs, constant reminders.<BR> but there are good moments. when you said that you want to enjoy her now, do it - those moments try to express your love. then when the bad ones come it won't seem like you're always sinking. live the good moments to their fullest and in time there will be more of them, i hope.

I relate to what you say only to well. I am the betrayed. My H blew me away with a 6-month affair that ended with ow pregnant. H wants to reconcile in the worst way. I am not sure. Only within the last 2-3 weeks has he come to try to understand how I feel. His understanding of my pain is sooo important to me. He too started by saying "I'm human, made a mistake, let's move on." Not good enough. Well, the devastation I felt made and still makes it impossible to move on. Only his complete understanding of what he did to me, my family, my life would make it possilbe for me to think of a future with him. I think finally he understands this and is much more open to thinking about how his actions affected me. He learned much of this through this site. For that I am appreciative. He also is trying to be completely honest with me about the affair. Although I am not sure if I believe him, his effort at being honest helps. I hope your W can learn to feel your pain, talk about it, recognize it. It is real and doesn't go away quickly. 3 months after knowledge, I still want to throw up every single day and i still think about it 24/7. You are not alone. Let this group support you and your wife. TALK, be honest, teach her to understand how you feel and learn why she did what she did. Hope that helps. Know your pain is shared by many. Good luck to you both.