well after a round of texting this girl still wants a divorce. She agreed to separation to get me off of her back. she has no intentions of stopping OM and said she will file when she can afford it. What now? She has no money, so do i let her file when she does? I don't think i can win her back, not right now anyways.

I am to frustrated to think.

Well, crap, Lost, hate to hear that. A buck gets you two that she's just blowing smoke, but I'd say it's time to get tough with her. A few options, the way I see it:

1. Go with her family and give OM hell, then give her a speech about what a divorce means for the kids and then give her a couple more days to think about it or
2. File for a divorce or
3. File for a separation or
4. Plan B which you've already sort of started

If you feel like you've done everything you can to bust up the affair (and I'm not really sure that you have since you haven't confronted OM in person with members of her family), then get an IM ready, get a Plan B letter ready, separate all of your finances, get your truck back from her, talk to her parents about why you are doing this (to preserve whatever love remains) and cut her loose for a while.

Definitely take her vehicle back. Break the friggin key off in the ignition if you have to. It's your property too, and tell her to go buy her own damn car because you're not a rental car service and won't give her transportation to pursue her affair while you stay home with our children.

What's she going to do...call the police and say "My mean ole husband is pissed that I'm cheating on him so he took his truck back and now I can't drive my boyfriend down to the store to get him a can of Skoal!" Hmmm....sounds like a country song.

With an unsupportive family, her not seeing her kids regularly, her not seeing you and having to get everything from OM, my money says she'll start seeing just what she's done to herself. Honestly, your situation doesn't sound that bad--other than OM, she really doesn't have jack going for her right now, does she?

Are her parents still up in her face about all this? Please tell me that they are and that you're keeping in touch with them. They're the big guns here, so don't lose their support.

If she really wanted a divorce, she'd have gotten one by now. She's just throwing the kitchen sink at you because she knows that she's run out of options. She knows her family doesn't support her and that you've ruined any chance that she had for replacing you with OM. Now let her *really* run out of options by removing the fantasy of keeping both you and OM in the picture.

With an unsupportive family, her not seeing her kids regularly, her not seeing you and having to get everything from OM, my money says she'll start seeing just what she's done to herself. Honestly, your situation doesn't sound that bad--other than OM, she really doesn't have jack going for her right now, does she?

She's addicted to OM, right? And we all know addicts won't clean up until they've hit rock bottom. Your goal now is to get her there as quickly as possible.

Formal Plan B letter, IM's etc. Kids stay with you, no reason to offer ANY visitation agreement unless she files for it, and then you bring all guns to bear in court. Desertion, no means of support, questionable mental state, etc.

Can't pull the truck? Then pull the plates and insurance.

It's time, LM.

You should go to Plan B and make it dark with no contact

If it isn't Dark,(see others and instruction on how), then I don't know what more to say, other than I'm sorry, shes really messed up, you don't deserve this.

She will eventually be sorry, when she pulls her head out of her butt.

Good idea, NG, I wouldn't have thought about that. Sometimes you have to get down on their level and fight dirty if you ever want to get clean again.

If you do a Plan B letter--I'd suggest you send a copy to her parents so that they'll get your side of the story first. No doubt, your WW will probably try to spin this around on you.

Best be prepared.

And get a VAR to keep with you from now on whenever you have any contact with her. You never know. I've read a thread where some guy, a lot like you, was actually arrested on a trumped up "domestic violence" charge and now cannot see his kids until his case is cleared. Oh, and I think OM and W moved back into the marital home since BH was being housed by the county. Nice, huh, and that BH never saw it coming.

I seriously do think you have a good shot at getting this turned around, Lost. Just try to get that extra boost of energy to see this through. Don't go down without one hell of a fight here, your kids need both of their parents together in a loving relationship and there is so much at stake here. You've really got nothing to lose and EVERYTHING to gain.

Sometimes you have to get down on their level and fight dirty...I wouldn't have thought about that.

We each have roles to fill here. Mine is to strategize the "dirty" aspects.

LM, I cast another vote for you having that minirecorder on you at all times.

thanks all, ill set on this for a bit and think. I have lost all energy and have become an emotional wreck at the moment. Yes her parents are still om my side as well as all family and friends. Im just so far hurt right now i need a bit to resort my thoughts and see if i can step up for another round.

Kids have me stressed, they are stressed, they are not dealing with this separation well at all. They told me last night that satan was in there room and with mom right now and that they were afraid. I mean really how screwed can a ww get.

Kids have me stressed, they are stressed, they are not dealing with this separation well at all. They told me last night that satan was in there room and with mom right now and that they were afraid. I mean really how screwed can a ww get.

Sorry for your situation, LM. If my "activist" persona and suggestions contributed to your stress, I VERY sorry for that, as well.

You've got a plateload to deal with now. Understand that you CAN get through this, and for those four little LM's you MUST get through this.

LM101

Pull it together man...My last post to you was to try and get you to think. Your response was all that you were providing was a pos truck.

NO-You were negotiating with a terrorist. You worked it out so she could have her shot of the kids, transportation, OM, a shot of you also in the mix while your WW's ruttin in the mud like a pig with another man.

I'd want someone just like you if I was going to have an A. Your so helpful.

Your helping your WW drive yourself crazy.

LOSTMAN101-Let the OM pos take care of your WW totally. Let him provide wheels, money, everything she needs totally.

Change the locks on the house. Let her file for D. Does she have enough to even file? Let OM pay the retainer. Lock the doors and let her legally set up a visitation schedule. Not up to you to provide her transportation to see the kids.

PLan A-You tried to negotiate an end to the A reasonably and calmly. You let her see you are willing to work on the M.

SHE WILL TRY TO END IT SOON WITH OM -Whats wrong with just calling her Daddy up and saying come and get me and staying with them a while?

That would end the A fast and be beleivable wouldn't it?


PLAN B. Time to get it in order.

As long as you contnue to let her walk all over you, you will feel like crap.. Is that how your going to continue?


nESRE

good points nerse. She takes care of the kids during work. she picks them up and drops them off at school(christian school no buses). She doesn't even have money to take them to Mcdonalds to get them dinner. I have thought about changing locks on the house. Yes she is running me over. Yes she does make me feel like crap. OM doesnt give her money, he doesnt have any according to his wife.

Yes im in a rut and im trying to get this back together.

I try to stay strong for the kids and i have been. The last few days have been extra hard on me.

LM101

I also asked you to read What are Plan A and Plan B.

Plan A is the set up for Plan B. We can't live long with the pain from the knowledge of our spouse having an A.

Plan A= We demand our WW end their A. If they don't then within a time frame (usually up to six months for men if they can take it ) we make reasonable attempts to persuade them without LoveBusters. This whole time we are planning for Plan B. Getting fianaces in order/Lining up an IM/consulting an attorney about legal rights etc...WE DO PLAN A WITH THE KNOWLEDGE OUR WW IS GOING TO BE WITH THE OM.....

Should that pre-set time elapse without an end to the A then we move to Plan B. We try to move into Plan B when we still have some balance left in our LoveBank. We write our Plan B letter spelling out the conditions that our WW can return to the M.

Would it help if you spelled out a plan here and let other critique it? At this point with what you are saying it appears your LoveBank balance is running low. If this is the case then Plan B is in order.

You have to know what direction you want to go in this M. The above is the very short version to the MB's plan.

A written plan may help you to know there is an end point to all of this. When LM101 has done all of this(his plan) then LM101 is done instead of going day to day with whatever a fogged out WW tells you or decides to dish out. HOPE is not a plan.

What do you say? Can you come back here with a plan and let others help you to refine it further constructively?


From chapter 13 HNHN's



Do you have the books SAA or HNHN's?


nESRE

Lost,

Man, you know what you have to do now to protect your kids from this mess. I know it's hard to do and easy to get overwhelmed, but you've got to stand up for your children now. They're having nightmares about the Devil, ***edit*** and I guarantee you that is only the tip of the iceberg. They're looking for someone to fix this, to make their worlds right again, and their mother has failed and their father is waffling.

Think about what they're going through and how this is going to follow them for the rest of their lives. They will carry this trauma into their own relationships as they model their behavior after, guess who, yours and your wife. Since your wife won't do a thing to protect them, this task now falls to you.

You've got to get to the point where you're pissed off and see your WW and OM as people that are abusing your children. That's what they are doing here. If it were anyone else threatening the welfare of your children, or trying to take them away from you, what would you do? You'd kick their [censored], I bet.

If I were you, I'd take charge of this crap now, this afternoon.

1. Arrange for after-school care for the kids. They need a routine, a schedule, where there the drama is minimized. Assuming they are in kindergarten, they get out at, what 2:00? Most schools offer after-school care, and many clubs (YMCA) do the same as well as offer transportation from the school. Or, perhaps your in-laws could help with this. Please consult them, see if they have suggestions. Maybe they'll even offer to keep the kids after school. Whatever it is, make sure that you and them are a team on this. That's critical!

Your kids do not need to be around their mother and OM during the day. Period. She's a bad influence and you can see how she is affecting them. It's not you. It's her. Remove that from the equation--it's too much for any child to deal with and have school on top of it.

Financially, you'll have some thinking to do. So, sell something (maybe, oh, a certain unused vehicle?) to pay for it for now. If they needed major surgery, I bet you could find a way to do it. It'll hurt, but that's ok--it's for them!

2. Talk to your in-laws about arranging Saturday visits with the kids so they can see their mom. You won't be there, but at least the visits will be supervised and OM won't be there. A controlled environment, where the kids are with their stable grandparents, should be a requirement. Make sure that you get her parents to agree that OM is not welcome there and that the kids should never be around OM. It's very important that they agree to this and that your wife knows this to be a fact.

3. Write a letter to your WW and copy her parents on it. Go to Plan B. I'd almost guarantee that she won't know what hit her, but it doesn't really matter. This is all about getting you and your children into a safe place away from all of this crap.

I took the liberty to type up what I'd say, for what it's worth:
------------------------------------------
WW,

Our children [name them] cry themselves to sleep every night and have nightmares about what your adultery has done to their lives. [Child's name] awoke the other night crying that the Devil was in his/her room and was up most of the night as a result. They live in constant fear of the unknown because of what you and OM have done to them. Their worlds have been shattered because of your adultery and continued contact with OM. They miss their mommy and do not understand what they did to deserve this. This is not acceptable and I must take steps to ensure their stability as they do not deserve to be going through this.

I have arranged for after-school care and will no longer need you to pick them up. [Enter details of after-school care including how you are selling that truck to help pay for it].

I have spoken with your parents and we are all concerned with how the children have been affected by your affair. Your parents and I have agreed that they will pick the kids up from our house on Saturday and take them to their house where you can come by and visit them if you like. For the sake of our children, please do not bring OM with you. They do not want anything to do with him and see him as the one that took their mommy away from them. Your parents agree that our children should not be around OM at all and will not welcome him into their home. Your parents have also agreed to drop our children off at our home afterwards.

Our children must be protected from the trauma of your affair and your relationship with OM. I'm sure you understand that they are innocent in this situation and I do appreciate your abiding by the decision to protect them from further harm.

[Then put in your Plan B letter, I've copied/pasted one here from another thread--think it was derived from the SAA book]

I do want to apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with OM possible. I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with OM once and for all.

Until then, I will not be seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you financially. If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through ____ [your IM]. Do not call, text or email me unless you are telling me that your are breaking contact with OM.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with OM and the fallout that has been inflicted on our children. I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing that you are with him. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from OM and are willing to follow the measures that were suggested to ensure total separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.
I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing OM.

With my love,
Lost
--------------------------------------------

Plan B without an effective Plan A is more of a Plan D/FU.

Just over 1 month dealing with this, how much Plan A has there effectively been?

How is the LB$ doing?

Plan B is to do one of two things; let the A die a natural death or prepare for Plan D.

Preparing for Plan B is a good idea, but make sure before moving to it, you understand the possible outcomes.

Again, the purpose of Plan A is; to shoot for that 15% probability that Plan A + exposure will kill the affair, and to place good memories and emotional associations within the WS so that Plan B is more effective.

It's a crapshoot, but BETTER if done PROPERLY.

Agreed, HHH. But it sounds like that time has passed and now the kids are feeling the brunt of WW's adultery. She's playing games with him, feigning reconciliation while going back to OM.

I think Lost needs to step up here for his kids as the mother obviously isn't doing a damn thing for them.

It really pisses me off when I see how the children are affected--probably because I went through it with my own.

Too, Lost seems to be at the end of his rope and, before long, the anger and resentment over her treatment of him and his children will make any reconciliation impossible.

They are also getting to see their father fight for his marriage like Conan-the-freaking-barbarian.

DIVORCE is going to damage them, their wayward mother is going to damage them.

A father who fights like a cornered badger to save his marriage is going to demonstrate to them how important marriage is, how important THEY are.

Everybody agrees its plan B time. With the support of her family on your side, and the obvious lack of Gonads on the OM, I see it as the best and quickest solution.

Your Kids have to see you standing up for love, and the truth God has given us to live, so they will not be afraid. Its ok that they see you hurt, because you are, but stay strong and pray with them, ensuring that this is just a trick of Satan to hurt all of you, and to trust God that he is still protecting you.

This might be hard for you to pull off as it feels like God has abandoned you, but He has not I assure you, and confessing the truth to them will help you also. You don't have to explain why Mommy is doing this, just thats its wrong, and not what God would have for your family. Have them ask Mom why because she has no reason for this that makes sense to anybody. Sharing that your in pain is OK, trying to define why to them will just confuse them, if they are young, and they will take on that role of protection of thier Daddy without knowing how. Something Mom was supposed to be doing, and she doesn't know how either.

Age appropiatness is important here,and thier imaginations are starting to reflect images of fear. Fight them with images of peace, and let them know you will allways be there for them, just as God is and will remain so.

Time to take care of those prescuios little innocent ones, and to protect yourself from the pain you are experiencing, by going to a DArk plan B..

Please wear a VAR at al times, and give us a rough draft laying out what you want from this marriage as a plan B letter for your entrance into a dark Plan B.

CP thanks for that. What i want is her to be back home. What she wants is a d so she can move on. Kids are no longer in her thought process in doing what is right.

Here are my problems. OM is a serious threat to my family as he has complete control over WW and he has serious Mafia family. Threats to him i believe encourage him more to do what he wants. He has no fears and knows he can do what he wants. MIL believes that she actually may be becoming intimidated by him and may be afraid to leave.(no proof on this). She has completely and i mean completely changed all of her values in life in the last 5 months. She has completely abandoned her christian way of life. She claims she hasn't but we know that's not true.

We are at this point separated. she no longer comes to our home and we meet in neutral places to exchange kids. She is living in a shoebox of a place that she is staying rent free and thinks its okay to take kids there. She watches kids during work and that is about it. She tells me to go to counseling to learn how to deal with divorce. She is truly F'ed up.

So she is now calling the shots? Tells where and when to meet, takes the kids wherever she wants to, tells you to go to counseling because you won't "deal" with how she wants you to deal with her?

Stop this insanity, please. They are YOUR KIDS TOO and she isn't doing them any good by taking them to that rent-free shoebox or exposing them to questionable people. They've already told you as much with the Devil comment(s).

An honest question, and I really mean no offense--why the hesitancy to stand up to her and stop this treatment of you and your children? These are your children, too (no court in this land will deny that) and this is your life, not hers to play puppeteer with.

Seriuos Mafia Family? You mean like racketeering and prostitution? A real low-life huh? Whats the attraction anyway, the glitz and glamour of being a sleaze?

Knowing guys who are "connected" before, and knowing they are just like everyone else in that they put thier pants on one leg at a time, and crap sitting down, I have gotten along with them OK. But I would never give them respect if they told me they stole sombodys messed up wife for some candy, or if they were banging some idiot to pump up thier ego.

Take it from me, mob-boy doesn't care about your wife, and if it is to much trouble to keep her, he won't. Just like every sleaze-ball, they are not into fighting if they can't win, or its to much trouble. They are lazy.

I am sorry this is happening to you, and I wonder how "connected" this guy is, and how much he plays like he is. Most real Mob guys don't mess with other peoples wives, only the weak and desparate ones do. looking for an easy hit.

im not saying he cares about her, im just telling you what he is. His Dad went to jail last year and his Grandpa is known as the rat. All im saying is there connection is very real.
As for the kids and her, We went to counseling last week and came to terms of a christian separation. Meaning that we act as we are separated and handle the kids accordingly. The problem is, she came out with a better attitude, we sat down and worked a plan with the kids and now she is back to square one.

Right now my plan is to put more pressure on om. I will not give her a D even if she files just to make sure she does not get her way. I have family on board to start making his life hell with the family as well. The kids are suffering, but to be honest they are going to do that no matter what.

I don't think he cares about her much at all. just the good time that is here right now. She on the other hand believes what ever he tells her. Go figure.

I feel as if people think i sit on my but and do nothing. Feelings hit me just like all others. I come here to vent and get things off my chest, regroup and go back to battle. I have done just about everything i can do with the counsel of many, and make the best decisions i can with what i have. She does have a way of deceit and getting things she wants right now while trying to make things look good. It makes it hard to get anywhere when she is so back and forth.

I also try not to put myself in any kind of jeopardy with laws and how things could look in the court of law. Ya she should not be with the kids, but on the other hand i cannot look like i purposely hurt that relationship as an act of anger if you get what i mean.