You are confusing the hormomal itch scratching of sexual desire for for the desire to please someone you love and care for.

Read what Vibrissa said again and put some faith in it. You guys have stagnated at a very normal state of relationship.

Its not just about the dopamine realease of sexual satisfaction, it about that release from many circumstances that the mind needs for desire. Have you ever heard that the biggest G-spot in a women is her mind? It is also true in men.

Keep working on this Cemar. Study and read and work with your wife towards satisfing the needs only you two can provide for each other. If your wife can come here maybe some posters could help, if you can't wrap your head around it yet. The goal is that you will though, and because you are in the position to know her best, you will if you keep at it.

Again this is a diffucult point in many relationships, and you will both grow through it, as long as the desire to love each other is present and you don't quit the race.

BTW, you having a HD level does not make you imature, in case that has been implicated, but it should be recognised as a coping mechanism many men have for security, and a sense of well-being. Its as normal as it can be naturally.

Cemar,

I think her wanting to please you is desire. It is because it is you and she loves you.

Think about this.

My 6 year old son plays soccer and he is good (for a 6 year old). It is adorable to watch. We go every weekend, in the heat and the cold and the rain. I look forward to it and you can't get the smile off of my face. I am eager and excited.

Now, when my son ages out of the soccer program, I will NEVER attend another youth soccer game (baring the obligatory watching of a younger neice or nephew and of course when grandchildren come.

My point is, while I desire to watch my son play soccer, I do not desire the actual watching of youth soccer on it's own.

Can't you see that your wife's libido for sex may have gone down due to hormomes and other things, her desire to please you is still there? I truly enjoy my son's soccer games. I am not just doing it FOR him but because he enjoys it, I desire it.

Excellent analogy.

kilted_thrower:

When I married my wife she was HD. Then when she became pregnant with first son and also developed the hypoactive thyroid, then her desire dropped off the face of the earth. Her body had far more to do with her LD then I ever did, and she told me this for 10 years, it was HER and not me. It is the LACK of CHEMICALS that is the root of LD. I could change into prince charming and it is not going to boost the chemicals that cause desire.


As for asking her to go down on me, that will likely NEVER happen again. She is like many women that give oral sex before marriage, and then stop after the ring is on the finger. SHe claims she will gag or throwup. So essentially, I will have to give up oral sex, and because of this, our marriage will never be close, since this incredibly intimate act will never happen again. And this is the real problem of being married to a LD person, they are not capable of REAL intimacy.

I hope you expand your definition of real intimacy, I know you are refering to sexual intimacy, but it means so much more to many people.

I Hope you can find that holding your wife closely during a crisis can be intimacy. I hope that you can do the same for children and find it valuable when they hug you back. I hope comforting a hurting person can be an intimate moment.

Its times like this that I am glad I have those feelings inside me, the ones that are so fragile and get my heart broken. when I hear of people who think intimacy is only sexual.

I truly hope that you can get to that state where you appreciate your wife, and you can be with her and hold her with tears of joy as you share sadness and joy, with or without sex, with a total honest and open heart between each other, because that is intimacy.

I'll pray for ya Cemar..

I notice no response to my post.

So, the root of the problem is you no longer get oral sex. As I understand it, you do not get oral sex because it makes your wife physically ill. Suggestion, go get a banana, stick it down your throat to your uvela (sp) over and over and over again. Then, while its down there, squirt some dishsoap in with it. See how you like it. See if it makes you gag. I am HD - VERY HD - and oral sex not only makes me gag, but also causes me SEVERE pain because I have bad TMJ. It is TOTALLY out of the question.

If not getting oral sex is what is giving rise to your complaints here, go hire a prostitute, because seems to me that's all you're really interested in.

Well, you are allowed to want what you want out of marriage and life. Believe me, I understand how incredibly frustrating it is to have the thing you want be unavailable.

Once again, as others have said countless times already, even if you're sure that no amount of change on your part will improve the quality of SF in your marriage, put it to the test anyway. Doing nothing will definitely not get you closer to what you want, and putting effort into it has a chance of making things better. Right now, saying "nothing I do can change things for the better" sounds like a flimsy after-the-fact justification for your decision to do nothing. Change that decision!

Then, if your predictions turn out to be accurate, look at your other options. There are some. But hiring prostitutes really isn't one of them, and I sure wish people would stop telling you that, even if it's just the indignance and frustration talking.

Cemar, I have cried MANY solitary tears longing for a touch from DH.....but I refuse to believe that a LD person is not capable of real intimacy. I refuse to believe that. Because if it is true then I have 30 or so years of misery ahead of me.

I know "hope is not a plan," but you seem to have zero hope. That has to be making everything feel worse. That mindset has got to change. I really think you should cal SH. Make a list, tell him everything you have done, everything you are feeling, how long it has been going on, everything. Get some help. There is no way you or your wife can just live this way.

As far as OS goes, that is ONE aspect of physical intimacy. I admit to loving it....but that is because it is kind of all that is possible. I could just as easily tell DH that "traditional sex" is necessary and I can never be happy because he won't do that.....but I would be shooting myself in the foot. There are so many ways to come together intimately and enjoy each other.

I KNOW the horrible, raw, hollow, empty, painful loneliness that comes from doing without THE ONE THING that no one but my spouse can do......but the day I give up all hope is the day a huge part of me dies....and that will not happen.

Don't let that happen to you.

No, not indignance and frustration, reality. Cemar seems to equate great physical sex with intimacy and completely ignores that there is so much more to it than that. If all he is looking for is great physical sex and not a true intimate connection with his wife, then he can get that anywhere. True intimacy that leads to great sex on so many phenomenal levels require investment and it is clear from his failure to act that he is not interested in that...he's only interested in great physical sex.

If you refuse to take action to change the situation, you lose your right to complain about it.

Cemar,

If your request for intimacy centers around a specific act and you can't think of another way this could be met, then I guess you're problems will continue.

That is unfortunate, because as the act grows in importance, her reluctance will also grow in anticipation that it won't be enough.

Not to be graphic but have you indicated a specific WAY you want this done? There are ways without the gagging and such but it may not suit you and maybe she has felt that so decided to stop all together.

Your posts seem to indicate an all or nothing proposition without regard to all the variations in the middle. Perhaps she senses this mindset and feels she will never please you adequately so why even try.

Your marriage will never be close if she does give you OS, because it is DISGUSTING to her. Why in the world would you ask your wife to do something that you know makes her sick? All you do by that is create an aversion. Giving you OS does not create "intimacy" it creates AVERSION. And it also creates resentment because what kind of a jerk would expect his wife to do something he KNOWS grosses her out. yuck!!

If you want to have a good sex life with your wife, then only do things with her that you both enjoy. Otherwise, she will avoid you. As she should!

I'm not cemar, but I got a lot out the post that you refer to. So, you may not have reached your target audience, but you sure made an impact with me and I just wanted to thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Dr Harley has counseled couples who were on the verge on divorce when one spouse sacrificed her happiness in bed. I found this post from Dr Harley where a poster told a woman she should do whatever her H asked in bed:

Then why would she do something that's sooooooooooooo disgusting, and makes her sooooooooooo sick before they got married only to stop later?

there are women out there that will bait their BF's into marriage with hot sex, only to cut them off later...it's called control...not saying this is cemar's problem, but many women start out hot and then say "i do" and go cold...

*edit

That goes for me as well.

MelodyLane:

I have asked for oral sex ONCE in the last 15 years, and we did not have it. I find it inteeresting that she used to do it when her CHEMICALS wer actually working, WITHOUT ME ASKING FOR IT. And she swallowed as well.

So what is the solution? THe whole purpose of OS is to give INCREDIBLY pleasure and create INCREDIBLE levels of intimacy that can NOT be achieved in any other way. I gues that us guys just are not all that important to our wives.

m_lukin:

I read other sports boards out there, and when guys talk, it is apparent that this is a massive problem. Women do oral sex becasue they know that if they don't, it is very likely the man will dump them. THat is until they get the ring on the finger. THen they can stop.

Women just need to be honest, if the idea is disgusting to them, then tell the guy. Course, most BF woudl have to seriously reevaluate that relationship. You should never marry someon while a known issue is present, cause they only get worse.

Vibrissa:

I understand the whole concept of the romantic marriage. The hope is to get the women to buy in, to get her motivated to as you say "overcoming these challenges". Phase 1 is build the so called romantic marraige for both spouses. This is NOT success. Phase 2 is where the REAL work is, "overcoming these challenges" by the women. My wife has plenty of challenges to overcome. Dr. Harley even mentions this several times in the "Willingnessto desire thread", he says the women has not solved the DESIRE issue yet, and wants the man to do the initiating. Well, this is phase 2, solving the desire issue. Once you solve the desire issue, the Romantic Marriage becomes the far better Passionate Marriage.

I have plenty of advice on the romantic love step, which gets us 50% of the way to success. So explain the next 50%, how is the woman going to solve the desire issue. Literally, how is she going to raise her chemical level.