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NC still on, GPS and texts good smile We're on day 6 after exposure to OW and he's calming down. No nastiness today at all. I seriously doubt he's in withdrawl yet, he was too happy today. When should that kick in?


Me: BW
WH 41 (practicing alcoholic)
Married 20 yrs
DS20, DD15, DD9
Too many D-Days to account for, more FRs than I care to admit
NC since 03/11, broken 04/11
NC again 07/11 broken 12/11
Plan D full steam ahead, made WH leave
WH now living with his "soul mate" (we call her donkeychui) 1/13/2012
D filed 01/25/2012
D final 05/15/2012
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Another question. Is there honestly any point to a no contact letter again since neither of them followed them before? FYI, the letters before were passed off as from ME!


Me: BW
WH 41 (practicing alcoholic)
Married 20 yrs
DS20, DD15, DD9
Too many D-Days to account for, more FRs than I care to admit
NC since 03/11, broken 04/11
NC again 07/11 broken 12/11
Plan D full steam ahead, made WH leave
WH now living with his "soul mate" (we call her donkeychui) 1/13/2012
D filed 01/25/2012
D final 05/15/2012
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Originally Posted by TickyTock
NC still on, GPS and texts good smile We're on day 6 after exposure to OW and he's calming down. No nastiness today at all. I seriously doubt he's in withdrawl yet, he was too happy today. When should that kick in?

I think this is not-so-good news.
I think his sudden good mood is because he and OW have "worked things out" between them.
Remain vigilant.

If his good mood continues for another week, then I strongly suggest you call the Harleys for a phone appointment.

Last edited by Pepperband; 03/25/11 02:24 PM.
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Ticky,

Have him write the no-contact letter, yes. Sometimes when people sit down and write things out, YOU get the chance to see where his mind really is. The deal is, he writes it, you approve it and YOU mail it. Do not leave the delivery up to him.


Tell him the truth, yes, that the OW and you spoke by phone. Explain how it happened, what the OW asked, and her reaction. Tell him that you understand that he lied to her.

Then, tell him that there is a way for him to feel "in love" with you again, and not to lose hope. His affair made things in his life feel different, but it also made things between the two of you worse - not better. Tell him that you know of ways to make things between you stronger, and so that you work as a team, as lovers, as friends. Let him know that there is a chance for him to redeem himself


and

that there are ways for him to find his way out of the hole he dug.


BUT

also let him know that HE HAS TO WORK to make all of this happen - that you will work and he will work - and it will not happen overnight.


Then, emphasize that the one, and ONLY, way for any hope in your marriage is for him to never contact or accept contact from the OW again. No. Matter. What.


Then, make yourself the best choice. Which, obviously you are, or he would have already made a choice to leave............but he hasn't........because he is caught somehow by the OW.


And also remember this

DO NOT TRUST WHAT THE OW SAYS, EITHER. She may very well have known his entire situation, and decided to stir this up in order to get him to feel forced to divorce you, or to get you to kick him out so she could WIN.

Do not let her win.



SB


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
Happy.
Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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There is no contact. I put DexRex on his phone and their last conversation was the OW telling him to f off and him trying like crazy to convince her I was a nutjob and a liar. She left the conversation hanging and there's been no followups. He only talked to her in text, always claiming to be out of town with no good reception. The GPS I'm using is actually software on his phone. Lookout Mobile Security. I installed both, telling him they were antivirus's.

We went to a party last night with all our friends and had a great time, he was happy and loving and all his friends made sure to show extra love to me to show him they wouldn't accept the OW.

I will work on getting him to do another NC letter. He's resisting saying he doesn't need to because I f'd up the affair by talking to her and now the OW won't have anything to do with him.


Me: BW
WH 41 (practicing alcoholic)
Married 20 yrs
DS20, DD15, DD9
Too many D-Days to account for, more FRs than I care to admit
NC since 03/11, broken 04/11
NC again 07/11 broken 12/11
Plan D full steam ahead, made WH leave
WH now living with his "soul mate" (we call her donkeychui) 1/13/2012
D filed 01/25/2012
D final 05/15/2012
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Posts: 496
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He's resisting saying he doesn't need to because I f'd up the affair by talking to her and now the OW won't have anything to do with him.

Poor guy! Man it really sucks having your deceitful lying azz called out in the public.

The NC is to have him show that he is willing to work on recovering the marriage. How is WH foggy state?

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Wow. That is pure fogspeak from your WH and until he is ready to send with YOU sitting right there, him committing to 100 percent NC, and also committing to EP with enthusiasm, I'd still believe he was in contact with the ow.

He may have figured out the phone sitch w/the software installed. Do not be surprised, sometimes there is an "affair phone" in the mix too, a prepaid cell phone (like ones you'd get at walmart) just for affair skankin'.

I agree with Pepperband, in that his sudden good mood might just mean something's up. I'd have a var in the car now, and be listening in b/c there could be an alternate way they're communicating now. How about his email from work? There always is a way b/c a junkie will find a way to do that. Get a secret fix from their stupid high.

GOOD for his friends though, having enough courage to stand up for you and the M by being so wonderful to you. That is GOOD! You want everybody to rally support around the M and with you, b/c that puts further stress on the already crippled affair.

And for the talk with the ow? Believe NOTHING she says. She is out for blood. My xwh's mistress, monkeyho, also brought out that damn white knight inside of him. There was always some family emergency, like some relative dying , and she needed somebody "there" for her. She even faked wanting our M to heal and took my now xh, to a MARRIAGE ENRICHMENT program at a nearby church supposedly b/c she loved him so much "as a friend" that she wanted "us" to heal (her meaning all 3 of us..)and I know that's crazy, but they really do a mind F on men (the ow) when they are out for blood and out to 100 percent destroy your family and marriage.

There is nothing at all sacred to an ow or an om. Nothing. They prove that with their actions. Heck, she may have bought them affair phones. I'd bet she will stop at nothing that is why YOU stop at nothing to killing that affair!

What is important, is you must now show your WH also how the OW tricked HIM by CALLING YOU. Yep. that card must be played also. You see, by the ow calling you, she destroyed the real objective of your WH's fantasy affair. That was when she caused a real line to be drawn in the sand by calling YOU.

When there is a collision of real life vs. fantasy affair evil land, it causes a point of no return imho, of the affair and M.
Somebody has to go at that point. Who will it be? The W or H who has NOT LIED to the WS and has been there all the while faithful and loving and true to their spouse and kids or will it be the skanky OW or OM, who has LIED to the WS, LIED to the world and engaged in an evil, sleazy affair and tried to break up a marriage and family?

It has to be painted like that. You see, your WH and all Waywards for that, wish to carry on the affair in secrecy. IN SECRECY! And they also wish to be able to have all the comfort and cozy and love of their spouse and family at home ALL AT THE SAME TIME. By OW contacting you, there was the collision b/w fantasy and reality.

WS's OW broke his secret desire, and also did the unthinkable by contacting you. I'd say (if it were me) to WH, "Wow, OW sure is an idiot. How in the world would HER CHOOSING TO DIAL MY NUMBER AND TALK TO ME, is that being your mistress? She just let out YOUR little secret yet again didn't she? Now it's ALL OUT IN THE OPEN BECAUSE OF HER." (he he he, excellent reverse fog babble and anti-affair guerilla tactic).

He(( yea, I'd play that card too. If an ow or om is going after me and my family, I'd play kind, loving plan A along with doing by whatever (legal) means necessary to kill the affair and send the OW packing to HE(( forever!

You want him to also see that SHE has betrayed him. That's big in the fogged out mind. They want the balance of affair vs. hubby or wife and kids at home and usually the BS gets blamed for things when this kind of stuff happens. But lucky for you, the OW SCREWED HERSELF (this time). Insert evil but smiley face here!

This is imho, advanced reverse fog babble at the max! Oh, and when speaking of the ow, call her (if she is unmarried) her name followed by adulteress. Like (forgive me if your name is Terry, b/c that's just an example)"You know, when Terry, THE ADULTERESS, called ME, your WIFE, I cannot believe that. I mean, TERRY THE ADULTERESS, is the one who has caused such upheaval in our lives right now. I can't eat or sleep and am in so much pain because of TERRY YOUR ADULTERESS.

Put the whole blame on the ow for this contact! Plus there is another side to guerilla affair tactics too. YOU are calling out the ow, and she now knows that things are not going to go easy on your end, that you are going to fight for things, so she might not sleep as easy or might now with one eye open.

Now get a var and hide it securely in the car. Go to the forum on snooping and learn all about VAR's ok?

I hid (an older and slightly larger type VAR) in my master bathroom after I deliberately left for the weekend with my son to pretend to visit my mom for the weekend. The previous weekend, I'd come home after spending a few hours at one of my girlfriends' houses (took my son too) to play bunko. Was gone for 3 hours. Came home and found the candles by my huge jacuzzi tub in the master were burnt down a bit, and that there was wax droplets around the edge of the tub. Knowing my then wh was to be in NC with monkeyho, I went and got the var and put it nearby, covered discreetly and was adhering to the back of a picture (large one, a 5 x 7) in the bathroom on the counter on my side of it. Lots of echo in our bathroom made for great acoustics. Let's just say I never bathed in that gorgeous tub ever ever again afer that.

Found out after I returned, that indeed she had been there and was coming over on weekends CATCHING A FLIGHT to my area, so she could skank at MY HOUSE. In my state it is legal for only one party to be able to have knowledge that a convo is being taped so it was golden. But if it is not in your state, no matter, it's still evidence, and can be played loudly in any court and in mediation. Even if an objection is stated, it is golden and more than enough reasonable proof.

A VAR is necessary.



Change happens by listening and then starting a dialogue with the people who are doing something you don't believe is right. ~Jane Goodall
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Originally Posted by TickyTock
. The GPS I'm using is actually software on his phone. Lookout Mobile Security. I installed both, telling him they were antivirus's.

Tickytock, a slight threadjack; could you please start up a thread in Operation Investigate addressing this GPS software? We would greatly appreciate it! Thanks.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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ML, will do! smile

Peachy, I will get a VAR. I seriously think it might just be over, finally!

The OW can't afford her own cell phone, let alone an additional one. That's one of WH's weak points, he feels the need to support her. He blew so much $ on her, $50k just in 2009. He drained all of our savings, aside from one I had, which I drained trying to survive when he left. We are so far in debt now from his affair, it's not even funny. She would always text him when they were apart, asking for $, asking him to pay some bills, renew her car, blah blah.

I think she was telling the truth about not really knowing. From all the conversations I read it didn't appear she knew she was actually the OW. He was telling her bs lies about me abandoning my kids and him having to stay at my house because of it, and trips out of town were just for the kids sake (I'd post as many pics as I could on Facebook of us :P) When he couldn't lie and say he was here because of the kids, he'd tell her family was sick 7 hrs away and pretend to be out of town. Showed her bogus divorce papers to get her to believe him!


Me: BW
WH 41 (practicing alcoholic)
Married 20 yrs
DS20, DD15, DD9
Too many D-Days to account for, more FRs than I care to admit
NC since 03/11, broken 04/11
NC again 07/11 broken 12/11
Plan D full steam ahead, made WH leave
WH now living with his "soul mate" (we call her donkeychui) 1/13/2012
D filed 01/25/2012
D final 05/15/2012
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Posts: 6,352
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Showed her bogus divorce papers to get her to believe him! puke

Shhhhhhhh! Don't let this get around - because the same kind of human dog-dropping that originated the "Have-An-Affair" website will devise a "Design-Your-Own-Divorce-Papers" service.

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It's pretty sad. I actually feel a little (JUST a little!) bad for her. There's wasn't ONE nugget of truth that he told her. Everything was lies. He even, in one conversation, pretended to be DD and said how she accepted whatever made her dad happy. When I told DD she flipped! She said "just WAIT until he tries to get me to meet Donkey (our special nickname for OW)... THAT will be fun!"

I don't think he ever intended on ever making an honest woman out of her, just meeting DD would have made the house of cards crumble.


Me: BW
WH 41 (practicing alcoholic)
Married 20 yrs
DS20, DD15, DD9
Too many D-Days to account for, more FRs than I care to admit
NC since 03/11, broken 04/11
NC again 07/11 broken 12/11
Plan D full steam ahead, made WH leave
WH now living with his "soul mate" (we call her donkeychui) 1/13/2012
D filed 01/25/2012
D final 05/15/2012
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Originally Posted by TickyTock
It's pretty sad. I actually feel a little (JUST a little!) bad for her. There's wasn't ONE nugget of truth that he told her. Everything was lies. He even, in one conversation, pretended to be DD and said how she accepted whatever made her dad happy. When I told DD she flipped! She said "just WAIT until he tries to get me to meet Donkey (our special nickname for OW)... THAT will be fun!"

I don't think he ever intended on ever making an honest woman out of her, just meeting DD would have made the house of cards crumble.


You don't know that's true. Think about it. If you have functioning grey matter, and you are dating someone with all the holes your WS would have in the story.......

Denial ain't just a river, and bizarrely, it flows upstream and downstream at the same time.

I felt sorry, for a little while, for my WH's OW. I did. Because poor wittle girl her had been deceived by the big bad man. That's the story she was sticking to. For awhile. And he did lie to her. Spun her a great tale. I had supposedly cheated on him and left him, and we had no children. He was a poor betrayed man, and I was an evil ex he had no contact with. But she knew everything by the end of the first year, and they continued. And she even met my children. But even when all was exposed and I contacted her, and even when her family was saying she absolutely knew, she maintained, for awhile, with me, that she was clueless.

Except, really, in the end, notsomuch.



Thanks for all the support along the way.
I wish you all well. I'm outta here.
Peace.
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VAR in place... should be easy to check on, I have full access to his truck at night and on weekends (we don't want to put extra miles on mine).

I think maybe the fog is lifting a little. We were talking yesterday and he mentioned how we all seem to be in a rut and WE really need to start getting back on track (this conversation always used to be that I needed to get back on track).

Still NC and he's coming to me more and more apologizing and telling me he loves me.

I forget who asked/mentioned, but the "holes" in his stories and always being away were completely sustainable because he travels all over the state for his job. Well, he used to travel. No more overnights, I put as a requirement. If it's absolutely, can't get out of it neccessary, then he takes one of the guys with him (the particular guy is one of my supporters) or my DS, who works for the same company.


Me: BW
WH 41 (practicing alcoholic)
Married 20 yrs
DS20, DD15, DD9
Too many D-Days to account for, more FRs than I care to admit
NC since 03/11, broken 04/11
NC again 07/11 broken 12/11
Plan D full steam ahead, made WH leave
WH now living with his "soul mate" (we call her donkeychui) 1/13/2012
D filed 01/25/2012
D final 05/15/2012
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If it's absolutely, can't get out of it neccessary, then he takes one of the guys with him (the particular guy is one of my supporters)

Make it a requirement that they share a room. My H went on business trips with a marriage supporter too but they didn't share a room...OW came in late at night and left early in the morning. It's amazing how brazen they get.



Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. smile
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Actually, your best bet is for you to go with him. This is what we began doing since my H needed to travel for about a year after we got into recovery.



Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. smile
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They always share rooms. They make up to 3 guys share a room, they'll only spring for an additional room if there's 4 or more going. Just learned, too, that I have another supporter! So, that's 3 travel companions he has to choose from who will ensure he behaves.

I would go with him, but that would require taking time off my job, which is impossible because we're so small. I don't even really escape when I'm on vacation.


Me: BW
WH 41 (practicing alcoholic)
Married 20 yrs
DS20, DD15, DD9
Too many D-Days to account for, more FRs than I care to admit
NC since 03/11, broken 04/11
NC again 07/11 broken 12/11
Plan D full steam ahead, made WH leave
WH now living with his "soul mate" (we call her donkeychui) 1/13/2012
D filed 01/25/2012
D final 05/15/2012
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Squeaky clean on the VAR so far. NC all the way.

His mood has been deflating in the past couple days, could this be withdrawl starting?


Me: BW
WH 41 (practicing alcoholic)
Married 20 yrs
DS20, DD15, DD9
Too many D-Days to account for, more FRs than I care to admit
NC since 03/11, broken 04/11
NC again 07/11 broken 12/11
Plan D full steam ahead, made WH leave
WH now living with his "soul mate" (we call her donkeychui) 1/13/2012
D filed 01/25/2012
D final 05/15/2012
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Possibly, but the severity and the strangeness of his lying (ie, made up divorce papers) are a huge red flag to me.

This guy could simply be going further underground with her, esp if he gave her 50$ last year. OW somehow LIKE money. OUR money. And they do not usually go away quietly.

My xh did the whole alternate reality with a 3rd ow but was after I had filed for divorce. I accidentally found out what he had told the subsequent ow, because SHE went on a date with a guy I knew from work (a single doctor). Incidentally he never went out with her again (the ow).

My xh told the ow that 1)he was sadly raising OUR child alone. 2)that I was very very ill mentally and that I had committed myself to an insane asylum and told him to take our child and live life without me. 3)He said he had a "live in nanny who kept his house immaculate and was amazing". Funny thing was I still at that time, lived in the huge house he told the ow about and I guess he painted me out to be the "live in nanny".

They will say whatever will make them look big in the eyes of somebody else. To me, when I hear lying like this, utter fake and outrageous ones yet carefully spun, I sense possibly narcissistic personality disorder (which my xh has).

I'd really really watch your WH now if his mood has changed. When the withdrawal (if he is even really in NC with ow) sets in, what he does with those feelings is paramount.

Q: In the past, has he ever lied to you and told amazingly huge lies? has he ever had an issue with lying in the past to anybody?

I'm really curious about this one. A guy who gives away marital assets in the neighborhood of 50k doesn't just quit cold turkey and the glib/happy moods he's had lately is utterly confusing to me. Plus the grandiosity and magnitude of the lying is a concern.

Have you talked with Dr. Harley or Jennifer yet? I would like to hear what they have to say about this.


Change happens by listening and then starting a dialogue with the people who are doing something you don't believe is right. ~Jane Goodall
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He's always been very generous with friends and family. His only lies were exaggerations (the fish I caught was THIS BIG kinda thing, incidentally, he is an avid fisherman).

The assets he gave away were bonuses. In his company he's part owner and they did REALLY well in 2009, so the money was seriously flowing for all the shareholders. I guess his state of mind made it seem like winning the lottery, only he lost ALL responsibility. He took her out to dinner a lot, on trips, pretty sure he bought her a new car, etc.. So, he was taking these bonus checks and depositing in a secret account and then living expenses were coming out of the shared account. Basically, a huge mess.

His "weirdness" started nearly right after his father died and he met her again (high school ex-girlfriend) 1 month after the first anniversary of his death. I think the stress from starting the affair really did push him over the edge of sanity. He was one of the WSs who threatened suicide a lot.

I need to get him right in the head before attempting counseling with the Harleys. He has an appointment next week with our family doctor who has the whole body approach. If he feels he can't handle WHs problems, he's going to refer us to a psychiatrist he trusts. WH is totally on board with this because he's starting to realize all that he did and something is wrong.


Me: BW
WH 41 (practicing alcoholic)
Married 20 yrs
DS20, DD15, DD9
Too many D-Days to account for, more FRs than I care to admit
NC since 03/11, broken 04/11
NC again 07/11 broken 12/11
Plan D full steam ahead, made WH leave
WH now living with his "soul mate" (we call her donkeychui) 1/13/2012
D filed 01/25/2012
D final 05/15/2012
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Posts: 76
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OK... withdrawl question. WH is normally a person easily aggravated, but the past 2 days have been really h*llish. He's saying the same stuff as in the beginning, rewriting history again and being an all out a$$.

Walking away and ignoring him is pissing him off more, what could I possibly say?

And NC is still in place, I think the past 2 days have been bad because he usually saw OW on Fridays.


Me: BW
WH 41 (practicing alcoholic)
Married 20 yrs
DS20, DD15, DD9
Too many D-Days to account for, more FRs than I care to admit
NC since 03/11, broken 04/11
NC again 07/11 broken 12/11
Plan D full steam ahead, made WH leave
WH now living with his "soul mate" (we call her donkeychui) 1/13/2012
D filed 01/25/2012
D final 05/15/2012
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