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Joined: Jul 2010
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Thanks for the explanation, help. It gives me more confidence about my lawyer and sitch.

In other news, I have not seen or talked with WW this year. After picking the kids up on Thursday nights, I drop them off on Saturdays with the babysitter; the babysitter calls WW; and WW picks them up.

At the same time, the WW and I continue to exchange emails, albeit only once every couple of weeks. None of my friends or family members will agree to serve as a true IM. WW sends me a hateful email about once a month, so an IM would be best. But overall I'm happy with my implementation of Plan B.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful and confident


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Posts: 1,921
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MJ,

There�s no need to speak to her unless there is blood or someone about to die. Don�t respond to any attacking emails. In fact, just scan them to see if there really is anything important in the body of the text. Otherwise just save them for court.

How far do you live from the kids?

You should not settle for anything less than 50/50. You can setup part time daycare options for yourself so that you can put the kids there on your days.

What do you guys communicate about?

You really need to think about the plan you�re in. It isn�t Plan B if you have any communication. You�re not sheltered from abuse if she�s emailing you things you�re reading and vice versa.

The fact is that you have an adequate method to have zero contact with her. Do you have any family that you can forward her messages to? What about a close friend?

That person can read the messages and tell you if there is anything important. Otherwise there is no need to communicate.

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help,

I live about 15 miles from WW's new place and 12 miles from our kids' daycare. Putting the kids in another daycare provider would be imprudent. The kids like the babysitter; the babysitter is affordable; and putting them in an unfamiliar environment one day a week would be disruptive.

Yes, I want a 50-50 agreement and won't settle for anything less.

The WW and I communicate about the kids -- their care, their schedules, holidays, etc.

I agree that my plan is not a full Plan B. My problem continues to be finding an IM. Few of my friends and family members agree with Dr. Harley's strategy, or at least the version of it I tell them. My present IM is willing to help, but he does nothing more than forward my emails to WW. Perhaps I should explain to my IM that he needs to scan WW's emails, see if her message is abusive, and respond to me.

Thanks again for your advice.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful and confident

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 318
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I met my attorney for the first time. He did not advise filing for abandonment or spousal support or counter-filing for divorce on adultery grounds. His reasoning is that if the judge ruled in my favor on either motion, I would spend more money in attorney and private investigator fees than receive in alimony. I might get an extra $100 a month, but the alimony would be for only a few years and I would spend $3,000 to $5,000 to an attorney and private investigator.

He added that if I counter-filed for divorce on the grounds of divorce, my WW would be so mad she would be less likely to reconcile with me.

My attorney also said that asking for a Guardian ad litem might be a good step down the road but not now.

I told him the visitation schedule advocated by helpthelostdads -- WW would get the kids Mondays and Tuesdays, me Wednesdays and Thursdays, and we alternate getting them on the weekends. He nodded his head at this schedule.

If anyone remembers the title of Mortarman's thread, please give me a holler.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful and confident

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 318
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M
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 318

I found Mortarman's thread and am making my way through it. Follow the link: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2192267#Post2192267

I still need an email IM. Will someone from MB please serve as mine?

None of my friends or family members will help me. They're too busy, disagree with MB's tactics and strategies, or want me to D. All I need is someone two or three times a week. My WW and exchange emails about the kids' clothes, health, and our finances. Otherwise, I am running a good Plan B. She hasn't seen or talked with me all year.


----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful and confident

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 318
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Posts: 318

Mrs. Harley read my email on today's show and Dr. Harley responded. Now I'm confused about how long to stay in Plan B.

Dr. H announced a time limit for BS': three years after separation. My WW and I have been separated for 17 months. But she began her EA with her (bozo the clown) AP 30 months ago. It was disrupted for six or seven months at least, a time when she gave birth to our second child. Here is the timeline:

-- Sept-Oct. 08: Her first EA begins and ends
-- Oct. '08 I find their emails; call her to the carpet;
don't expose
-- Dec. '08: She gives birth to DD#2
-- Summer '09: EA likely resumes and likely turns physical
-- Oct. '09: She moves out
-- May '10 - Nov. '10: Plan A
-- Nov. 10 -- present: Plan B

Bottomline: Should I stop my Plan B and move on after the date when she started her EA? Or should I stop it two years after I began?

My guess is the latter. Which is fine by me. I lost my job again and still want to give our kids every shot possible of growing up with their mommy and daddy in the same house.

----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful and confident

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 318
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Posts: 318
help,

I followed your advice. WW's various email accounts are now blocked from my main email account. Time to go on offense.

My IM, it turns out, is willing to relay messages from me. I will just need to reward his kind efforts.

----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful and confident

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 318
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 318

What leverage does a BS have with a WS?

My WW thinks that deciding when to pick up and drop off our kids is her prerogative alone. (In true wayward fashion, she said that picking them up at one time was NOT OK, said that it was OK, and now says it's NOT OK.) If I don't agree to her terms, she will not let me have the kids when my parents are in town. Oh, and she claimed both of our kids for the 2010 taxes. What the hell. This is ridiculous.

I see a couple of options:

-- refusing to pay her my portion of our monthly expenses unless she agrees to compromise.

-- saying she can't have the kids when her parents are in town.

-- exploring my options with my lawyer.

Based on the absence of responses to my previous posts, I am persona non grata on this site. All I can say is that I'm doing my best to adhere to the MB plan. Your advice is appreciated.

----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful and confident


Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554
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Please tell me that you didn't honestly believe that your WW would stick to any of her promises. That's why you have a lawyer. Use him.

Last edited by ManInMotion; 03/23/11 09:59 PM.

ManInMotion
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What leverage do you have.... Ummmm none.... IMHO you NEVER use $ or kids as leverage. Cutting to the core here is that your WW does not respect you or your rules. If she stays crazy like my WWXW did then about the only thing she'll "eventually" respect is what comes from her atty or a judge. You'll notice the eventually is put in there, don't overlook that. I was literally in court for years before she respected the law, then she did good for a while and a couple years later (whenever my life was going exceedingly well) she'd show her colors again. Nothing I could do or say would change her but the courts carry a bigger stick let them do the swinging for you, just make sure your side of the fence stays clean my friend.....


Hugz, Thoughtz, & Prayerz

Bill
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I agree with the others, I would use your lawyer. As far as staying in Plan B, that depends on you. Dr Harley only advises WAITING to divorce for 2 years. You can stay in Plan B indefinitely if necessary. I know ppl who never contact their WS even years later.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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MJ,

Do not use the kids as a weapon.

Do you have a set schedule for the exchange of kids? Is there a court order to pay her any money?

If there is no schedule, then you need to get one ASAP. That means a legal order pending litigation. Don't settle for anything less than 50/50 and document the heck out of everything.

If you don't have a court order to pay her money, then don't!

You're not obligated in any way.

File a complaint with the court through your lawyer and request sole physical and legal custody.

You won't get it, but you do it to shock her and let her see you're not going to just lie down and die.

There is no leverage with a WW. There is not rationale. There is no making sense of things. You're expected to live on her whims.

The only recourse you have is to document and file court papers.

You're not persona non grata here. It's just that the steps to take are tough and they suck and you need to do it.

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MIM,

Nope; I did not think WW would stick to her promises. As Dr. H says, WS's lie and cheat; they think only of themselves. I'm sending an email to my attorney about my options now.

Thanks.

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Thanks, Melody. Staying in Plan B for years and years with kids must be especially difficult. But it's gotta be the best approach for both parents; the BS can't be hurt and the WS can't hurt.

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LostHusband,

Sorry to hear that your WW stayed in the fog so long. My WW has been in it for almost a year and a half. How long has your ex-WW stayed in it?

I ask because Dr. H says 90 percent of affairs die out after three years. Of course, a WS may go into another affair, which would keep them in the fog. Anyway, just wondering.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful and confident

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 318
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Posts: 318
helpthelostdads,

Yes, we have a set schedule. I get the kids the last three days of the Judeo-Christian week: Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, though on Saturdays we alternate drop offs between the afternoon and evening.

No, there is no court order to pay her money. My previous attorney said that stopping payments to my WW would look bad in the eyes of the court.

I sent an email to my lawyer Thursday, but haven't heard from him. I will call him tomorrow and get back to you.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful and confident

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,416
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Posts: 4,416
MJ, mine is a typical case of what happens when someone doesn't follow the priciples here. I didn't find out the scope and depth of things until we were pretty much divorced which spurred a serious depression and eventually a 3 year filled alcohol/drug binge. But anyway it wasn't until my xw started seeing consequences that her fog began lifting. Once I got my head on straight 3 years after divorce she got her first taste of them. And she faught and faught for about 2 years when my oldest finally had enough and moved in with me. After that she'd show her bad side every once in a while for another year or so. So all in all I'd say she had about 6 years of fog. Though we don't talk I'm pretty sure she's out of it judging by what I see as depression in her life. Oh and 10 years later she's still with her OM. They just got married a couple months back. He's a keeper.....lol...NOT....


Hugz, Thoughtz, & Prayerz

Bill
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I talked with my attorney. He said to pay to my WW our agreed upon amount each month. He also said NOT to contest the fact that she is claiming both of our kids on her tax returns. This will make me look good in the eyes of the court, he said.

I am surprised by his advice. Wouldn't fighting this show that I want to be a father with joint custody? Yes, it could show that I want more money from the government. But it could also show that I will not be a non-custody father.



-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful and confident

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 835
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MJ, I am replying more to bump than anything else. Others will respond with insight, but for what it's worth, your lawyer sounds like an [censored]. Sorry.

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C'mon MJ, how in the world is claiming kids and getting money going to show that you're a good father? Exactly.....

I can't speak to your courts but around my parts the Judges absolutely will not order Shared Custody or 50/50 whatever you want to call it because they say that it requires an extra amount of communication etc with the ex. Now me and my X actually agreed upon it but before that I was told the same as you for the fact that if we can't get along now and agree to these things then how are we going to be able to do that in the future. Heck I paid CS 60% higher than I had to for like 6 months while our case made it through the system. As it turns out my atty was right and he knew the Judges temperment.


Hugz, Thoughtz, & Prayerz

Bill
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