New here. Here's the short story... W and I have been married for almost 9 years, 3 yr old DD, I am the emotionally abusive / controlling one and have progressively gotten worse over the entire course of our M. Got much worse after DD was born. Since Christmas things have been getting much worse and she finally told me that she's done with being married to me. I've been in shock, denial, anger, grief, and I think I'm finally in acceptance. We've talked a lot about what she wants to do. When she first threw her hands up I found MB and showed it to her. She was initially receptive and took some of the questionnaires but then she decided that she didn't want to work on the relationship anymore. There have been lots of moments when I think that she's changing her mind but then she goes back to "I don't want to be married to you". I acknowledge my abusiveness and I want to change my ways. Am seeing a counselor (we saw her together 2 times) and am trying to be more conscientious of my behaviors around and to W. Have told her that I want to do whatever it takes for her to be happy and for our M to work the way it should but she isn't interested anymore. My LB account is definitely in the red. I am in full LB deposit mode now trying like hell to bring it back up. She wants to be fully separated/divorced. She says that there has never been a PA and that she has no interest in anyone else. Just doesn't want to deal with my ownership/control issues and my emotional punishments. She wants to move out and start her own life. She wants us to be friends and still do things together, just not be married. She feels that marriage = control/abuse. I've tried talking, begging, showing her that I'm working on fixing my problems. She acknowledges that she sees me changing but that it doesn't change her wanting to not be married to me. So, now I feel like if I don't let her go and have her own life she'll just get more resentful of me and feel like I'm trying to control her still. But then, I'm scared that if she is off on her own she'll move on emotionally and I won't have a chance to try to win her back. I get paranoid about her having relationships while she and I aren't together and how that will affect me wanting to try to get her back. I know I'm still being controlling but it's hard to just let go of everything and trust that it'll be okay. She's mad because even after everything I've done she's still trying to be considerate of my feelings in the separation process.

Hello Popester, welcome to MB.

I am sorry for what you're going through.

I think it's extremely important that you rule out whether or not your wife is having an emotional and/or physical affair. It's possible she's not, but a LOT of times that is the case, even if you really don't think that is possible.

The advice you would be given here depends on whether or not your wife is in a affair. This is important to know because you stated you wanted to save the marriage.

So....have you done any investigating on your own to verify that she is not in an affair? Asking her does NOT count. 99.9% of people in affairs WILL LIE THROUGH THEIR TEETH ABOUT IT. Please trust me on this.

If you have investigated, what all did you do?

If not, let's talk about that first.

Have you investigated yourself to see if she is having an affair? You won't find out by asking, but only by quietly snooping on your own. I find it curious that you have stopped the behaviors she claims to hate yet she still wants a divorce. That doesn't add up.

I would rule out an affair FIRST.

Like MJ and ML, I too am sorry you have to be here, but unlike MJ and ML, I'm looking at your post in a different light, not one that says to rule out a affair first. This could be because its still a very raw festering wound I'm left with trying to heal from my own marriage. I admit I'm distrustful these days. So a few questions/comments/thoughts coming.


First, I applaud you for owning up to being the abusive controlling one. In what ways do you find yourself being abusive? Controlling? Physical? Emotionally? Why have they been getting worse? What's triggering that?


Expect to go thru all those emotions repeatedly over time. It's a roller coaster ride from hell.


This part is where I believe MJ and ML have said to ensure there was no affair. I admit it sounds like a familiar song and dance.


Then I read this and I can believe there is no affair. This is the part that hits the raw nerves with me. My own STBXH admitted how wrong his CA's were, and how he wanted to change, and as soon as I gave in to working on the marriage, he was right back to his ways. The only difference is you are seeing a counselor, he never did, although he promised.


This is where I think the Plan A and B come into play....if I understand those concepts correctly. You would be in plan A. I dunno, I�m still a newbie at this.


I can totally understand her views here, I lived with a jerk for many a year too long. She must be far stronger than I was when your marriage started, or at least has enough gumption left to bail before it's to late. I also never had any PA's, EA's, or CA's (cyber affairs) and to be honest, never expect that I will have any relationships in the future, as twice burnt is two times too many for me. The sheer thought of letting anyone get close again is enough to turn me off. So I can understand fully if she did not, and has not, and any investigation shows the truth in that. Seriously, would you if you were her?


Again, another spot where MJ and ML might be right on their thoughts. I dunno. At one time I thought that about my husband too, but reality sets in quickly and you realize how foolish that thought is. Its taken 23 years to be halfway accepting of my first ex. I don't know I�ll live long enough to accept the second one. Damn sure not as a 'friend'.



again, this sounds as thought it's still very controlling to me. Actions should be what shows you are serious, not words, and definitely not begging.


And if you don't let her go wouldn't you in truth be doing just that? Controlling her?


A very real possibility.


paranoid is an interesting word to use. Could you explain this sentence more please?



I think you said it all right here. Its just not what you want to hear.

Again, I'm not trying to go out of my way to be mean, its just this is hitting raw nerves with me. I've spent 17 months of separation trying to regain a bit of myself after 14 years of marriage to someone like you, with a few other smelly things tossed in the fray. Somehow it really scares me to think of a controlling/abusive spouse trying to dig up an affair real or imagined. Again, it could be my distrustful nature these days, but you make the hair on the back of my neck stand up, and that's not a feeling I like.

As for an affair... I've suspected an EA for a while but she vehemently denies that anything is going on. And the counsellor that we were seeing said that it's common for someone to make up a fantasy affair to explain why their spouse is leaving them. Because it's easier to think that their spouse is leaving for someone else rather than just because they are sick of the way they get treated. Because it's harder to look at and own up to the part you've played in making your spouse feel a loss of love for you. I've done a little snooping in email and text messages and haven't found any major red flags. I've thought about trying to get the text message records from our cell phones but I don't know if that's even something you can ask for or if it has to be a police order or something. Plus I don't even think I care if she is having an EA. I mean I do care but I don't think that would affect my desire to win her back. It kind of gives me more motivation to try harder because I'm competing for her. And I really do believe that she has not had a PA. I know that she loves me and that she still cares about me deeply. She has also said that she has thought she would like to date me while we are separated. I don't think she would say that if she was getting her emotional needs met elsewhere. No offense, but it seems like 80% of this forum is about spouses having affairs and I just don't feel like that fits what's happening here. I could be wrong and I've second guessed myself plenty but my W's character is all about treating people right and with respect and she is the ultimate giver. That's what our problem has been. She's been 100% give and I've been 100% take. Now I know she's only human and that an affair is possible considering the environment that she's been in but I don't think it's happened yet.

@NoStressZone - I'm sorry for the pain you've been left with and I appreciate your honesty. It sounds like you and my W are in very similar places emotionally. I don't want to be suspicious of an affair because I feel like that is just another way of trying to control her. I want her to heal and feel safe and rebuild her self esteem. Truly I do. AND I want to try to show her that I'm changing and that I want her to be with me in the right way. I think that right now the best way for me to show her that I trust her and believe in her is to let her move out and just continue to try to do things for her that show her I love her no matter what.

That is a ridiculous comment from your "counselor." How can it be "easier" to imagine an affair? Of course it is not easier, it is harder. But that misses the point. We have to deal in reality and facts here in order to resolve the problem. Saying it is easy or hard does nothing to get you closer to the truth. Asking your spouse if she is having an affair is a fruitless waste of time because if she WERE having an affair, she would deny it.

Its real important that you do some sleuthing here and rule out an affair. If there is an affair, you will need to know because it makes all the difference in the approach we would tell you to take.

So please find out what she is doing when you aren't looking and come back here. We can help you with next steps.

They ALL say that very thing. It is a classic statement of someone who is having an affair. That doesn't mean she is having an affair, but it certainly doesn't mean she isn't.


Did she say: "I love you but am not in love with you?"


But you wouldn't know because you don't have practical experience in detecting affairs. WE DO. And so does Dr Harley, the founder of Marriage Builders:

My sitch had some similarities to yours�but I�m on the other side� so I want to throw in my 2 cents� my ex was very good at pretending to be whatever you wanted. He sweet-charmed my mom for the 3 years we were dating, then kicked her to the curb on our wedding night, at the reception, in front of everyone. So when someone says they�re gonna change, it takes more than a couple months for me to believe that change is for real. No, I never had an affair. And I wanted to, on paper and in public, appear friendly and amicable. But I wanted control of my own life back.


My ex acknowledged his wrong doing, but no permanent change. I thought I saw a brief glimmer of change a few months ago, turned out it was part of the conditions of his parents continued subsidizing to try and get us back together.



Like NSZ I�m not trying to discount MJ and ML�s advice-they�ve been around much longer than me. But it could very well be your wife is through with your controlling and abuse. And to win her back is going to take a lot more plan A and a lot less manipulating.




Before I continue, I first want to say this quote from Dr Harley makes total sense to me. And most people who have come to me with similar stories are indeed in an affair, emotional or physical. But I didn�t have an affair, though I needed a separation. When I first felt like I couldn�t take it anymore, I couldn�t stomach the thought of divorce (credit my upbringing I really felt like divorce=sin back then). I warned my H I couldn�t take living like that anymore, and that if he didn�t change I would sign up for the next job trip that would take me long-term out of town. He didn�t. I did. I used the time to think, plan, recover, and go to counseling. While I was away, I realized that the safest thing for my son and I was to never return!

I do care deeply about my ex. He was my best friend for over 15 years. But that doesn�t mean I wish I had stayed married to him! And I certainly don�t want to go to that kind of relationship again.

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I hope you take ML and MJ�s suggestion to privately find out if there�s any affair going on. I also hope you take my and NSZ�s comments to heart. If you really want to win your wife over, and there�s no affair, it can be done� but not with temporary behaviors. She may not trust you.

I realize that statistically speaking, my W is very likely to be having or have had an affair. However, I'm glad to hear that there are some people who have been in similar situations where there has not been any infidelity (on the leaving party's part). All day yesterday I was getting so worked up thinking about all the possible scenarios that could be happening behind my back. And I realize that an affair would/should change the way that I handle everything. But I really don't know if I would ever find out for sure. If I snoop and don't find anything does that mean that I didn't look hard enough or that she's just really good at covering her tracks or does it mean that there was nothing to find in the first place? It's a catch 22. The only way it stops is if you find something. If you don't, you keep looking and that makes me feel like even more of a psycho controlling freak. Of course if there was an affair then I would want to know but, if there isn't I feel like trying to find out is a total breach of my trust in her. Also, even if there is an emotional affair going on, it seems that everything I read is about how they end up fizzling sooner or later anyway. Plus if she allows me to date her while we're separated, isn't there a stronger bond between us than the OM especially because of our DD? Wouldn't that win out eventually if I don't let the affair (if there even is one) interrupt my LB deposits?

Trust, but verify. It is not a violation of trust to verify that your wife is trustworthy.

If there is an affair, then it is interrupting your deposits into her LB. Her LB is closed to you.

You said you suspect an EA. Maybe it will end on its own, but it will leave a path of mass destruction on its way out. Why would you allow it to continue?

popester, we are not advising you to "breach her trust" but to snoop on her and find out if there is an affair. You have a right to know everything she does. And yes, affairs do fizzle out in about 2 years, but in that time your marriage will be killed off because you won't have addressed the real problem.

Anyway, it is your marriage to ruin, not mine. Take the advice or leave it. I wish you the best.