Hey Fred! Just getting caught up.



I personally don't think we need to justify our ENs. They are what they are, and they shift when they shift.

What you may want to think about though is why you have the ENs that you do. And I only suggest that simply so that you can better understand yourself and what you really want. Once you do that, you could be surprised on how some ENs may shift for you.

And after you do that,

Here's an even more interesting thing to ponder....How could you meet those ENs for yourself? How would your life be different if you could?

I hear there's an opening at Aflac...

Well maybe I don't wanna/need to know. It went over my head.

Hi Kay

Gilbert Gottfried, the voice of the Aflac duck has been canned. CP was talking about radio voices...

Well, not exactly. But almost.

For the first time in weeks, Pew Gal (or #2, or whatever nom de amore we've adopted) was in church today. She came up after service and introduced me to "her friend," a tall, hulking guy named TJ.

Okay, so Pew Gal is spoken for. Dancing Girl is not interested, which means that I have to broaden my horizons and make myself available to someone who (a) isn't taken, and (b) is interested.

But it's not back to Square One, as you folks have gently pointed out to me -- I've had the experience of "asking" and "first dating" now (post D), so I just have to make sure I don't play turtle again and pull back completely. I'll hold you guys to making sure I don't!

And we will!

Yes, we will hunt you down!

Nah Fred will come here and say..."Help me MR. WIzarrrrd!"

LOL!

You know what's funny? Shortly after I posted my last update, I got a call from Dancing Gal. Yep, she called me -- just to "check in," I guess. We spoke for a while and then *I* had to break the call off, as my daughter had arrived to pick up her dog, which I had been dog-sitting.

I saw DG the next day and we spoke again for a few minutes. The sense I get is she's interested in being friends but without "benefits" (sorry to use the current vernacular, as I didn't quite mean it the way it might come across). The door is still open for us to do some things together, but there doesn't seem to be any real urgency to do so.

I'm not sure, but I think I've just been dissed...

Nah fred, I was thinking of the turtle in that cartoon. But you you will come her and ask for help, you are to smart not to.

No disrespect to you guy, I'm proud to know you.

Thanks, CP. I didn't really think you'd dissed me. But at the time I read it, I didn't quite catch your meaning, either.

This is a great place. Great people, great principles, great program!

I'm fortunate to have found it, and people like you.

Fred,

Was sorry to hear pew girl was spoken for, I wouldn't give up on that one just yet, that guy could be on probation and not pass muster...... next thing you know she'll be sitting alone on the end of the pew smiling at you again.

I'm looking forward to your next adventure

LOL! Good one, SC.

She was there with him again today. And she's done her hair differently -- definitely an improvement! I told her so when we spoke.

You know, I'm really okay with where things are right now. Yes, I feel sometimes like in some sort of Limbo, but for some reason, that doesn't really bother me.

I know things are going to change.

I just don't know when.

You have a great attitude! I know that things will change for the better with your outlook.

Oh, I'm curious, how long did it take you to start feeling like dating was okay? My divorce was final this past week and I can't imagine dating.

My marriage was really awful for a really long time. I realized many years ago that I was vulnerable to an affair and so I put in place lots of mental/emotional roadblocks to other men. If I want to date (and I'm not even sure that I do), I'll have to overcome those barriers.

Gosh, I think the "wanting to date" thing is different for everyone...some people want to before the ink's dry and others aren't ready years later.

Fred, you aren't alone feeling in limbo, I kind of feel like I'm in between places but am not sure what I'm in between. I only know things won't stay the same with my job, living situation, and possibly not in my personal situation, although it very well could be that I'd stay alone for life...I'm okay however it ends up. By this time I've learned that nothing stays the same. (I was very happily married once and he up and died without warning, so I know how quickly things can change.) By the same token, you never know when you're going to meet the greatest person in the world that day...you just never know what's in store for you.

In my case, Kirby, it took about six months. My divorce was final in June and my first date was in December. The occasion kind of fell in my lap: I was invited to an upscale Christmas brunch, and the thought occurred to me that it would be nice to go with someone. That "someone" just happened to be Dancing Girl.

However, I did not feel like my marriage had gone wrong. Before my WxW launched into her affair, we'd had some employment troubles and some health issues, but I always thought adults weathered the storms as well as enjoyed the calm. So, I felt blindsided by events as they unfolded.

Today, the idea of dating is not so much about long-term relationships (although I'm aware that dating is the "interview process" for such) as it is about sharing experiences. I guess that make recreational activity one of my top ENs, doesn't it?

Well for me it hasn't happened yet, but its not because I would be against it. Its a readiness check. My convictions have been hardened to steel about what it means now to be with someone, and I don't feel ready for that. Here is the short list..

1) I won't look for attemtion from someone for support unless I feel good about supporting them also. This would mean we would have to be going in a direction we both agreed upon, and I am still dealing with the one that She left behind, both internally,(scared Sh1Tless), and externally, with my childrens understanding.

2) I have to examine why I was attracted to this women also, what was wrong with me, to think I could ever save her from herself. I had a lot of awesome choices I turned down of women who liked me. Why did I get "hooked", on this one? Ego? Past experiences I was re-living? Bad relationship dynamics? I owe it to myself and anyone I date to know what I want and why.

3) I have unfinished business that needs to be taken care of before I seek another mate, and because I will never be put in the, "Trust me" place again that it will work out, I will make sure I have most my needs, practical and emotional, covered before I hook up again. I will trust God for love first for me, and if she is the same way about it, I will find a more honest person to be with. Thing is...all I need is God anyway. Friends and good relationships are gravy. I married first at 18 because I wanted to be a good and adult man to this girl I slept with for 2 years, and grow up. The second marrige was because of pregnancy and to a very BPD women who drank that would not have survived alone. Both times I worked hard to provide and take care of them the best I could. Both times they ended up in affairs and betrayal.

Maybe I will never get married again, but I won't look for sex without marriage either, so dates will have to be friends I have something in common with other than "mate" hunting. This is a tall order for me, but why hurry?

C.P., I could have written every single word of that, right down to the two failed marriages, both due to adultery and affairs, except there was no pregnancy before either marriage.

I have chosen to get my strength from above, not from another human being, ever again. I don't want anyone to rely on me for their strength either. I think it's ok to a point, but there's a fine line between supporting someone, and being sucked dry by them.

I do not ever want to rely on just one person to fill too many of my needs. I am building a support system, so that one day if I have an intimate relationship, I won't be asking too much of my partner, and I will want them to be the same way.

I want to experience life with people. Should I befriend a future partner while doing it, that will be great. And because I feel this way, it's going to be interesting for me when men approach me for a date. I've already been asked out by an "acquaintence", and at least now I have the excuse that I'm still married. I'd rather get to know someone on a friendship level before I go out with them by ourselves.

It's only been the last month or so that I even felt like "experiencing life" with other people. I mean, I have done things with family and friends this whole time, but I didn't accept a ton of invites because I was hurting so deeply. Now, I'm ready to do just that, and have.

However, I need to give some thought on being a 3rd or 5th wheel when I get invited out. Yesterday I was invited to dinner by two couples who I absolutely have a great time with, but I declined the invitation because I felt like a 5th wheel.

Do any of you have any experience with that? I do not want to turn down invitations with other couples just because I don't have a partner, or a date. Most of the people I know are married or in serious relationships. It's not the same when you're much younger and most of your friends are single.

Given what all I've written above, I use to think it was a tall order too C.P., but now I'm not so sure. I can't help but think there are others who think similiar thoughts to ours, who have been on the same journey we have. It should be nice to find someone whose beliefs and values are similar to mine. But like you, I'm in no hurry. God is preparing me for my journey.

But isn't that what the "fall" of falling in love is all about? The fantasy that there is someone with a chemistry your attracted to, that is your soulmate? Someone you were destined to be with because you fit together? I know, I know, before I get the , I am talking about the "fall" part you see, not the love part.

But if I look at marriage as a studied statistic and take out my slide rule while making a choice, I lose some romantic drive. This has been a problem with me before, and its hard to realize that I choose wrong and for the wrong reasons. Example...I don't want 2.4 children and drive a Volvo. Statistics don't equal romance, or romantic drive.

I also must realize that what I chose and why, did not work before, and much of the desire comes from how I was raised, and the role of hero I felt I had to play, both as a child, and in the challanges I had with both marriages. Then the guilt comes in, because I failed to keep both of them happy. I would have done anything to save my late wife, and see her happy and healthy. I do not think it was ALL her fault. It must be partially me. That scares me to death also.

So if being the savior is not an option for a drive, and I am still in self-study and examination where I am not confident either, lol where am I? Its kinds funny haha and funny strange at the same time. Its too bad falling in love naturally is out of the question for me, and the dream of sticking together through thick and thin is past, and gone.

Well Boo-Hoo for me, I had a chance and I blew it, now I will just have to be happy loving people instead of "Falling" in love for now. Although I talk a lot about heartaches, there were some good dreams and wonderful children that came out of all this. There were good times, and hope, and life has been experienced. God help me if I forget the lessons learned or that they become scars that never heal as I mope around feeling sorry for myself. Jeez what a wounded puppy I would be then.

But I am afraid of being confident again and appearing to be what I am not, even having strong opinions and on the surface acting like I want to be, raising my sites to high, living with guts and conviction, full speed ahead and damn the torpedos, lol. That didn't work out so good, or did it?

What happened to the women I wanted to protect without judgement? Who I thought needed unconditional love, probably more than anyone I ever knew, so racked with fear and guilt? If I am honest maybe I got to live a fairy tale romance I had no business living, and I should be happy with that, and what happened was what I deserved for my ego wanting to take Gods place, and believing it was my job to do so.

To many questions to take a chance of falling in love again, especially seeing how it works with me. Methinks I need to examine my head for some time and re-join the real world when I see it again. I can see how a women could feel sorry for me, and that sucks big-time. I would rather have respect, and earn it, thats what I need more than attention and tenderness, for myself and anyone who wants to be around me. But I have to know it myself first to have peace, no more "trust me" idolisation which can turn anybody into a tyrant if they depend on someone elses value for thier self-worth. You gotta know what your doing and why, and be happy with that first, before you can be honest with someone else. How else do they know the real you?

I have friends who say I should get into a relationship, and those who understand who are single and OK with it. I remember when I was 23, and seperated from my first wife, and the guys who said I should just go out and party. Of course that didn't work lol, like a relationship would not work now.

To many questions that will need time to answer and wounds that need to be healed, some self-inflicted also I am afraid. I am thankful for my friends on MB who have been a support for me in thier conviction and healthy compassionate and tender hearts, thay have been a gift from God. Freinds are worth everything now. As they allways should be in every relationship.

But I will miss "falling" in love...