I've haven't been to MB in a long long time. Maybe some folks on here will remember my name [H] from a long time ago when I was having problems the first time around. I thought things were resolved with our marriage and my wife is telling it's fallen into a rut and she can't do it anymore. I'm changing everything I have to change right now to hopefully get her to see that I can be the man she wanted. I am willing to fight for our marriage and as of right now she doesn't seem willing. Any suggestions she served me with paperwork already.

[H]

H,

I'm sorry for the reason your back, I know you know the principles here and know in your heart what it takes to recover the marriage.

If she has filed then obviously she feels she is at the end of her rope...... What do you think set her off ????

Are both of you still in the house together????

She just gave me the paperwork a little over 9 hours ago. She's still in the house with our son. Asleep as of this reply. I wish i knew what set her off. I'm wishing a lot of things right now. I don't want this to sound like I'm clueless but I pretty much was blindsided with this. I'm trying to talk with her and find out what happened and when and where. She just keeps telling me. "I'm done"

[H]

[H]

I glance back over your old threads, and I saw that you were the WH, and I saw that your W was active here as well. I know you both know the principles here.

The big question is an A by either of you in the picture now?????

You know there is no hope of a recovery unless that is stopped.

There is something going on here that has set her off. A, drug or Alcohol abuse, not meeting her most important EN's...... something

looking back leading up to this were there any behavior changes on her part??? events in your lives ???

You mentioned that there were other problems in your M before your A. Are those issues back ???? I did not dig enough to see what those issues were, but I would look to them to see if you have been in a pattern of doing some of those things again.


I would do my best to Plan A her, and start a dialog with with her,


I would approach her and lay out the fact that you love her, that you want to meet her needs and that you are willing to be responsive to change.

That you both have fought to save this marriage and that to just suddenly give up on it is a shock to you and that you deserve an explanation more than "I'm done"

Yes, I was the WH back then. I thought I knew the principles but it turns out I was neglecting her needs and some really big ones at that. We've had a child he's two and 1/2 and I have been taking a back seat to his care. All the while her emotional need for domestic support being neglected. She has other needs I wasn't meeting as well. I asked her if she was having an affair a few times and she has said no. I haven't so much as thought about another women since my affair I stopped all those habits that led me astray long ago.

She she's been very stressed since I've basically taken a limited anarchy approach to domestic issues all the while thinking she wanted it that way to be in control of these things. Boy I couldn't have been more wrong. I have been working on a dialog all this weekend with her and I have not only been saying I am responsive to change but that I am changing the way I do things so break those old habits and change my current instincts.

So in a lot of ways I really didn't learn what I'm learning now or what I thought I had learned I lost along the way. There is a lot of new information for me to read and I think partly that is because over time its either slipped my mind or I really didn't catch it the first time around. She's been meeting some of my emotional needs some of them have changed I have taken the questionnaire over again and I was really really surprised by what I was seeing as I circled things.

I mean before my emotional need for conversation was pretty non-existent. Now I find myself marking it as a top 3 and some of my other top 3's have dropped to like 7 and 8's. So that is definitely due to changes in our marriage after our son was born. Thats probably when and where I initially started my love busters.

Her needs changed from what they were to what they are now which I believe to be affection, domestic support, and financial support. Affection is a really difficult one for me to meet for some reason because I am attracted to her. So when I show her affection my mind starts thinking other things and I just don't know how to break it from doing that. Domestic support need I wasn't meeting without a doubt.

It's not that it's difficult for me to meet that need of hers I just wasn't seeing the clues to jump in and help and after a while it's like your habit or instinct to let the other person do it which only makes things worse. I certainly didn't realize I was hurting her.

The financial need I think stems from us having quite a bit of debt right now and I wasn't seeing that since I don't take care of the finances. She takes care of things and kind of shelters me from how tight the budget is. So all the while i'm like.. "Well I'm going to go buy this, or that" and all the while she makes it happen, but it just creates another bill because of me. So I have taken the financial spreadsheet and moments ago said I need passwords and account information so I can get in and see what needs to be paid and when. I am taking this responsibility over so I can finally see I am living above our means.

I have taken a immediate front seat to childcare and to our household I've vowed to myself to continue down this road indefinitely so I can lean new habits and instincts. Right now I have no chance of meeting her affection needs but I will continue to do things that make her happy around the house and hopefully that means more dialog and more willingness to slow down and get back into counseling.

[H]

[H]

Sounds like your doing a good job of starting to meet her needs,

I would think if she has been running the finances and you simply take over she may resent it. I would approach it as a POJA exercise. There is a book "Total money makeover" written by Dave Ramsey, that I think would help you it does a good job of laying out how to approach your finances. One thing Dave stress is that both of you decide what the monthly budget together.

To do the budget you spend every dime of your monthly income on paper before the month starts. The hard part is sticking to it. The book will help you in that process. By doing this it forces you both to be partners in the effort to get your finances under control.

I think it will be an excellent way to meet some of her EN's if you handle it well, it will be natural for you to start asking questions abut bills you have and why they are as big as they are. Just about anything you say along those line will come across like you are criticizing her efforts to keep up with the budget. You will have to be careful.

You said :

"I asked her if she was having an affair a few times and she has said no."


You know she'll never admit to an A. That is something that you will need to find out yourself. This is a double edged sword. It is critical that you know if a OM is evolved, and you will have to snoop to find it out, and if there is one you will have to expose that and brake it up.

If on the other hand she has been a good girl and is simply fed up with you not meeting her EN's and you are falsely accusing her of an A then you will do more damage to what's left of your marriage.

So start snooping by DON'T LET HER KNOW!!!!!!! You will need to check her phone,and computer, there is a lot about snooping on this site and the SAA forum can help you more with that.

[H]

Have you seen in changes in her behavior????

The way she dresses

Leaving the room to talk on the phone

Buying new clothes

Spending extra time putting on her makeup

Going out with girl friends

Any thing like that could be a sign of a OM

Yes. There has been a lot of changes like that with her. She does spend a lot of time with her friends lately. But I'm not sure what that entails. She doesn't really buy a lot of new clothes however I did hear something about nordstroms the other day. She doesn't leave the room to talk on the phone. She has always dressed reasonably the same.

Can someone remind me where plan a information is. I tried searching for it last night and only found plan b. Our copy of his needs her needs was given to someone else at some point also. I tried looking for it too.

[H]

[H]

I've got no excuse for not finding it. I know it is spelled out in "Surviving An Affair", I am sure that it is to be found on the web site somewhere........

This forum is not the best one for you to work on saving your marriage, and although most of the posters on the Surviving an Affair forum are dealing with infidelity, they are all working on restoring their marriages and there is a lot of activity there, you will get alot more support there. I am sure one of the Vets there will be able to link you to the right spot.

I would move your thread to that forum. Just click on notify the Mod and they will take care of moving your thread.


I think it could help you to get your W back on the site, I'm sure some of the Vets that helped you the 1st time are still around and she may respond to that. If she is willing to come back on I would delete all the discussion on a possible A. You will need to protect your efforts in that direction til you know if she is clean or not.

Not sure if this is the thread you're looking for, but here is Pepperband's awesome Carrot and Stick of Plan A thread.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2496026&page=1


EDIT:
And here is the Plan A/B article. I used to spend A LOT of time reading here.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

First, Thank you for finding those threads for me. I Did find the actual article by Dr. Harley and had read that through I realized there was more out there somewhere but the search engine wasn't being forthcoming.

Big problem right now is she's still furious with me. It's hard to keep open dialog with her since she is shutting down most of the time. She barely even answers my questions about our son. Most other things have gone unanswered. I still keep praying and showing her that I can change and can be this fantastic guy she knew I was all along.

She's afraid that it'll change back the way it was before. She's afraid that i'll only change for a little while then change back. I can't stress enough I understand that happens when you do the same routine the way it's always failed in the past. For me it's letting her have control of everything. I can't change if I'm in the backseat all the time. So that's why I really stepped forth to make a change in how I live from here on.

[H}

When you went thru the recovery 10 years ago did you feel the marriage recovered????

Do you think Knewjie would say she was happy???

When you identified her EL's do you think you did a reasonable job meeting those needs, and was she meeting your needs ??????

And if you were to guess what do you think is her major complaint now ?????

You are welcome sir. Isn't technology wonderful!


I know it seems odd, but I see this as a good thing. This means she's in the conflict stage, and not in withdrawal. (caveat: I am not a professional, so I may be diagnosing this wrong)



I haven't read your whole story from back then (if it's even still around after the crash). But, I'm going to say this: if you changed before, and the changes didn't stick; how could she think otherwise? I understand that as people grow, their needs change. And it is their "responsibility" to communicate those changes.

One of the greatest things I've learned through my stich is that if I were to change for my STBX, it wouldn't have stuck. But, in changing for MYSELF, I am hopefully enacting changes that will be with me for the rest of my life. No matter who's around.

I wish you luck, and think that you'll need to get answers to the questions SC has tossed out. They will help you decide what your course of action(s) will be.

H, what is her main complaint about you? ARe you saying this came completely by surprise and that you had no idea she was so unhappy?

Well. It's probably to late to help her. She kicked me out last Monday and said if I didn't leave she was going to get a restraining order. So I've left. She doesn't want to talk about anything except how to keep pressing forward towards divorce. So I've been letting her do just that. Making it easy on her as much as I can. I still feel she's been very unreasonable with everything considering I'm the one out in the cold I'm the one who is missing our son 90% of the time. I'm getting to the point where I find myself more happy with her pushing me down this path. ... Problem. I don't like it. I still have some hope for us, if not now maybe later, but I don't want to end up resenting her after all of this.

[H]

You should not have left your home and your son because your wife threatened a restraining order. Unless you have done something to threaten her safety, she would have had no grounds for such an order. A woman cannot just get a judge to issue an order because she wants her husband out of her home.

You should have made her file for divorce and let a judge make a decision about what should happen to the home and your son's custody.

By rolling over and conceding like this you have given your wife the advantage and set a precedent for a future judgement on your son and your home.

This will be especially galling if it turns out that she is having an affair. She might just have successfully moved you out so that she can continue her affair in privacy, and perhaps even move the other man into your home.

Moving out was a very bad decision by you, and you should move back - if you know you have not done anything to merit a restraining order. You should carry a voice activated recorder with you at all times when you interact with her, though, because she can now escalate any discussion about why you are in the home, and she can say you threatened and frightened her.

Make sure you never threaten or frighten her, or raise your voice.

Please read this thread entitled "Men: Do not leave your homes!" Please follow the advice it gives.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2493166&Searchpage=1&Main=147437&Words=%22men+do+not+leave%22&Search=true#Post2493166

Her parents own the place we were living at. So that complicated things. Colorado does not have a full custody or joint custody system anymore so theres no way unless I was some crazy junkie or something that she could end up with my son in a full custody situation. I'm competent, gainfully employed and rock solid I don't drink at all and I do not use drugs of any kind.

What we do have is something called "Parenting time" where the court leaves it up to us to work out a reasonable schedule for who has our son at what times, when and how long. If we cannot agree on those things and it ends up going to the state a mediator will then step in and resolve some issues.

Disclaimer: I am British and know nothing about the law in Colorado!

Even so, why would her parents' ownership of the house complicate anything? If you are your wife's legally wedded husband and the recognised father of your child, why would a judge order you to leave your home if there were no grounds, such as violence?

Did her parents have the legal right to make you leave the home, if you paid them according to the agreement? Did they have the right to make you leave your wife and child behind, rather than terminating the lease for all 3 of you?

I still can't see why you felt you had to leave, and why you aren't making plans to go back.

We don't pay them rent. They own the house we live at. I don't really understand my rights at this point. There hasn't been violence never will be. Thats not my style. At this point my plan is to let her just take it easy maybe what she wants or needs is separation rather then divorce. I'm new to all of this obviously I'm learning as I go. She's still so angry with me and it seems like all she wants to do is hang on to that anger and resentment. When she communicates with me its these short burst micro text messages that basically aren't clear or specific either.