Still confused.

1. did you STOP doing it when she told you it was hurtful?

2. DID YOU KNOW IT WAS HURTING HER?

Pepper, Thank you for the suggestion. I will do it. I completely understand that I was being selfish. I have stopped this activity and haven't done it since August of last year. I basically told the wife that if I ever had the thought of doing it again that I would cut it off.

Melody, She did try telling me and I did not stop till I discovered how much she was talking with the OM and we were on the verge of divorce. She amde the promise to me that she would have no furhter contact with him and even sent him emails stating this which she alowed me to read. She told me numerous times that she didn't want me to do it again but I did. She knew that I understood that it was hurting her. She only talked with him to find out if all men liked this. That is what she told me was her whole premise for talking with him. They never met and she does not plan on meeting him. She doesn't even want to meet him because of the things that they discussed. To her it wasn't real. She told me that it really didn't seem real because he wasn't real.

So I'm assuming that you never divorced?

No we did not. We are still together. I love her and she loves me. We want this to work. She seems 100% committed but I just want to know if I'm naive. She has never done this before and said that as long as I'm not hurting her she won't be going anywhere. She has promised that she won't let any man get close like that again.

I really don't think that all this was your fault. I feel like your blaming yourself and you shouldn't. I was left emotionally abandoned and strayed with a high school sweetheart, only to have him return to his wife. It wasn't my husbands fault. I should have communicated with him more.

I believe I am to blame some though. We are communicating a lot more now than we ever have. It wasn't abandonment that pushed her away it was me hurting her in the bedroom. Lucky for me it didn't go any further than talking.

SOT, do you have the book, Surviving an Affair? If not, I would get that book along with the Five Steps to Romantic Love workbook and follow the program in there. That can help turn your marriage around.

I would especially focus your wife on a) affair proofing your marriage and b) the policy of radical honesty. She probably has operated under the fallacious notion that she should not complain. That is a recipe for disaster, as you have learned the hard way. A complaint is an opportunity for improvement in a good marriage and she needs to learn to do that.

She does need to learn to hold herself accountable for telling you when she is unhappy. You obviously can't make changes if she is not honest. And you have to practice honesty too and learn to tell her when she is making you unhappy.

Thanks Melody, We are both reading His Needs, Her needs and it's funny because everything that it says to do in there we have pretty much been doing since this happened. She sent a letter to the OM telling him that it was over and we have been spending a lot more time together. In the end it boils down to me not hurting her like I was. She says as long as I am not hurting her she won't divorce me. She says she will never talk to another man like that or let them get close. This is the only other man she has let get this close besides me. I think we are doing a lot better and appreciate the book Dr. Harley wrote. She is communicating with me now if she is unhappy. We have both been communicating some much better since this happened. Thank you for all of your advice. I'll update you all if there is anything new.

I am surprised some others here have not taken this approach or felt as I do about what you wrote.

What really gets my antennae up is that your wife would "tell you and then cry" after you hurt her in the bedroom which says YOU ENJOYED IT.

It almost sounds like rape to me. And some women don't know that a married woman can endure a rape like any other woman can, like a single woman can.

If she told you over and over something hurt her badly, and physically, and she would cry over it, let you know it WAS NOT OK, and you kept on doing this vile thing to her over and over, how is it different than rape? Other than maybe your wife didn't know that married women can be raped.

Bud, that is MORE THAN a lovebuster, it's a signal of something seriously wrong.

Your w may be a ww but I see her as somebody hurt and lost who was violated again and again for SIX YEARS by the man who was supposed to love, honor and protect her. Just because she thought having sf w/you was her "wifely duty" she got no fulfillment from it, and was physically HURT as a consequence of trying to just basically service you.

I'm surprised she is still around honestly. She began to confide in another man whom she might have felt safe with. Granted yes, it is an inappropriate friendship and sending the panty pics were wrong, but there is imho FAR GREATER WRONGS here having been committed by you for six years.

I have a serious question.

Have you sought out mental counseling or the help of a psychiatrist about this problem? It is serious. Getting your rocks off while hurting your wife and CONSCIOUSLY knowing it was hurting and harming her both mentally and physically is plain wrong.

You pushed your wife away so far by doing this that honestly, I can't see how she stayed. Do you understand how this belittled her? How your act mentally hurt her besides causing pain? Her self esteem is probably in the gutter right now as a result of this for six years.

I am all for calling a wayward out, and this is 100 percent true. But reading what you wrote honestly made me ill.

There's much more here than just a wife almost cheating. YOU have bigger fish to fry than her. YOU need to deal with yourself. When somebody cries and says no, that it hurts them, THAT IS SAYING NO. It means don't do that again. Or stop. It is demeaning, selfish, masochistic behavior.

I am married. I am my husbands' wife. But there is a line that NO HUSBAND can cross with their wife and that is in the degradation or harming of their marriage partner.

Your last post sounds almost glib. How can that be? Reading HNHN or following MB principles cannot COVER UP abusing your w for six years. If you had been my H and this happened, you'd be writing this from a spot with no view, obscured by possibly bars.

Well said Peachy.

Your wife needs to stop being a cheater at any level for any reason, but she might also need to stop allowing herself to be a victim of abuse just as you need to seriously improve beyond your ability to be an abuser. I don't know why you continued to do what you did despite her tears and complaints every time, but I also don't know why she didn't leave long ago. I think professional help might be needed for all the problems in you, in her, and in the marriage.

I hope you grow. I hope she does too.

Peachy, I agree with you on everything that you said. I am getting help. I have stopped doing what I was doing. It has been since July of last year. I talk with my priest and deacon on a regular basis. I have made it my life goal not to ever hurt her again. I was a terrible husband for what I did and have promised to make it up to her for the rest of our lives together. Believe me nothing about what I did was right. I even told her that she should leave me but she loves me too much. The only thing that I can do is try to be to her the best husband that I can be from here on out. I can't take away the past and what I did just like she can't take away talking with someone else. I have told her this and we have both forgiven each other for what has happened. We are working on restoring our love for each other and are building up our love banks more and more each day. I know that this was mostly my fault. I just have to make it right.

Bump!

Does anyone else have any more advice? I really want to know if I should start trusting her again. She says this was a one time thing in the 16 years that we have been married. She says it was just a perfect storm with everything that was going on between us. I also got emotionally attached to a girl online when we were first married and she told me to stop talking to her and never mentioned it again. Should I do the same here or continue worrying that she will contact him again? She says she has not talked to him since October of last year except to write the letter to tell him that it was over in December which I saw and she let me read.

Another thing. We are moving to another state that is 24 hours away from the OM. Is this a good thing? The W has agreed that this is the best thing. She understands what happened was not what she should have done but that she can't change what she did. She does regret it because she hurt me so bad. I would just like to know if the hurt goes away? When will I stop snooping so much worrying if she is contacting him again?

Good.

Use POJA in your marriage. The thing about a good marriage is that it usually gets better.

Keep working at it!

SoT,

I am going to suggest something too. Please get an appt with Dr. Harley b/c your situation IS very different. Here are the dynamics:

1)you have been sexually abusive to your wife for YEARS
2)she filed for divorce several times and is probably one really sad, scared, and confused lady.
3)She may have cheated, confided in another man about all of this
4)YOU need to own and realize that the reason your ww turned to this other man was because you were ABUSIVE to her.

What you need to find out is how to affair proof your marriage with Dr. Harley and get ideas from him about WHAT KIND OF OTHER HEALTH/MENTAL professional you need to see to get help from this need to control and hurt and physically abuse your wife. That my friend, is far greater than the cheating right now.

YOur ww might not feel safe after years of systematic abuse. You need to know and own this. You are worried about YOU feeling safe? YOU right now? Seriously, I am not trying to be mean here, but you have done some major damage to your wife's mental condition and that is going to take time to undo.

The hurt inside you is from alot of things, but might be there because you are FINALLY REALIZING how horribly you treated your wife, whom you were supposed to love and protect. You harmed her physically, and without you being 100 percent DIAGNOSED AS SAFE from a mental health professional, I personally wouldn't say she IS SAFE around you at all.

You're focusing on the wrong things here. You need to get some marital advice from Dr. Harley, but it is complicated with the fact that you abused her sexually. THAT part, sir, needs to be also dealt with a psychologist/psychiatrist, and is something YOU have to deal with. I am no shrink, (minor in psych)but imho, your ww probably reached out to another male because OF FEAR AND OF ALL THE ABUSE SHE FELT by being abused by you. She probably couldn't take any more, and reached out to somebody else, and might have been seeking emotional shelter from somebody she perceived as "stronger", rather than from say a girlfriend or relative.

WHY ON EARTH are you moving your poor ww away from her friends and family 24 hours away? Why? Has she not gone through enough at your hands? She may have had an affair, but this woman needs to feel SAFE and needs to know she will never be abused, harmed OR CONTROLLED by YOU again.

I also think you possibly have major control issues too. YOur ww needs friends and love and support from her family.

Look at this from the outside. Pretend your ww is a sister or a friend.

Let's say she is your sister and you found out her husband had FOR YEARS sexually abused her. She maybe didn't tell anybody for years (lots of sexual assault victims do not as they are embarassed sadly). Let's say she was so hurt and vulernable she turned wrongly to a male friend for support and began an affair.

Let's say she filed for divorce so she could get away from the systematic abuse and the abuser (her husband) and her husband FINALLY , only after she filed for divorce, realized what he was doing and began seeking help for his problems. How would you feel about him?

Let's say this guy, to GET HER AWAY (CONTROL) from this OM, this friend/lover she confided in, wanted her to move TWENTY FOURS HOURS away from her family, further ISOLATING HER from her loved ones...Would you support your sister being forced to move away with her abusive husband WHO ISN'T HEALED YET far far away?

Sir, I think you are taking the cart before the horse. This IS a marriage healing site, but we are not for "marriage at ALL costs" ok?

What exactly have YOU done to change your abusive behaviors? What kind of therapy are you in? You are focusing WRONGLY on your wife and her affair and what she is/isn't doing, and MOVING her away , far far away from that guy and wanting to know when your poor poor heart will be mended.

Well whine to another woman here, I was physically assulted on 2 occasions from my ex wayward husband before I divorced him and left him for good (after being pushed down some stairs). My xwh also on another occasion tried to force me in the bedroom too shortly before that, and I was able to get away from him.

THIS WON'T WORK WITH ME. I know that to overcome what YOU have wrong with you will take serious serious work. And I seriously think you need to honestly address the big issues. Properly.

I also want to say this..

With 100 percent hard work, and love and committment to YOURSELF, by getting both individual treatment and marriage counseling, you can help both you and the situation with your ww.

Please, realize your ww is hurt beyond words can say. I know. I know how it feels to have ONLY ONCE OR TWICE been harmed by my spouse (my xwh) and it is a debilitating feeling. You feel powerless. You feel FEAR of that person. Yes, fear.

I actually developed a mild form of ptsd from dealing with him and all the emotional and the few instances of abuse. So your ww has REAL ISSUES she must deal with INDIVIDUALLY too. And unless a psychiatrist says you are 100 percent healed, there could be a relapse of your behavior again with your ww.

My xwh didn't get the right help and even went to see another counselor after we divorced and he married the other woman. SHE inherited all that and the abuse GOT WORSE. My xwh is in jail right now, for assaulting a female private eye and for something related to his former job (he was a ceo, lost everything, millions, and his home and all his belongings now). His now xw (they divorced earlier in 2011) never did press the charges against him for spousal abuse, but she finally after the fact, confided in me 2 years ago that he was indeed physically abusive and he did sexual assault to her also.

This is WHY YOU MUST get the proper treatment right now.

I am going to pray a very special prayer tonight for both you and your ww.

YOU ARE CORAGEOUS in facing your problem and wanting to fix it and face it head on. You know you cannot live like this any more. And that's great! You are going to get help! And I applaud you 100%! But your individual help for the abuse is top priority here, and I would also get marriage counseling from Dr. harley too, with regard in how to help you heal.

Now your ww, she needs IC help too, to deal with the abuse she received from you. PLEASE DO NOT TAKE OR REMOVE HER AWAY FROM HER SUPPORT SYSTEM of others, her family and friends. That would be horrible and devastating to her right now. If you truly love your wife, and wish to stop this behavior, stop the controlling, you have to address this issue where you are right now. Do not isolate your wife from her family and friends.

You all need LOVE AND SUPPORT and you need to let your friends and relatives ALL KNOW about everything and that you hurt your wife for years, and that you, yourself right now are going to get all the help needed to heal from this and ask FOR SUPPORT from friends and family.

Please do not move her away. She is terribly wounded, far more wounded than you, sir, are right now with a bruised ego and heart. I say that to you, as a survivor of spousal abuse.

Now let us know what you are doing to ADDRESS THE PRIMARY issue: the abuse. How are you getting help right now? You sir, cannot have marriage recovery if you do not first GET HELP for being abusive for years. That is something that cannot come from a marriage advice or healing site. It is something entirely different.

Just learn from what happened to my xwh. He lost everything because he refused to address his problems and ADMIT he had a problem and get help for it. He didn't. And his life is forever changed for that. Me? Because nobody could have predicted how he would behave one day, I had to endure pain and abuse from him, and even after our divorce, I had to relive those moments over and over (when I'd least expect it) and endured searing fear and the "flight or fight" feeling from having ptsd from what he did to me.

You can rewrite your life story from this day forward. You can. You have to have faith and courage too. If you truly love your wife, you will get this help, and realize she cannot leave the support of her family and friends now. You also need to come clean with them too,about what YOU did to make her want to file for divorce.

In the end it is up to your wife ultimately what she wishes to do, and you should know she is NOT safe at all with you unless you are deemed 100 percent safe from a psychiatrist. Your risk of doing it again is high.

Please do what my xwh and father of my child COULD NOT DO because he refused to get real before God, and seek the real help he needed.

Prayers going out to you and your wife tonight.

Peachy: Thanks for the advice. I am doing a lot of counseling and talking with others about what happened. I'm not moving my wife away from her support system. I'm actually moving her closer to her family. Our family's currently live 22 hours away from us but with this move they will only live 10 hours away. We both don't really have any friends where we currently live because we are best friends with each other. I know the reason that she went to talk with this OM was my fault. I take full responsibility because I know that she didn't want to talk with anyone close. She told me he was "safe" because she has never met him. She wanted to know if other men would like the kind of things that I liked. I realize that it will take a lot of work to move on and repair what has happened. She tells me that she is ready to move on and forget that this ever happened. She has had NC with the OM since the NC letter back in December. I ADMIT I had a problem and working to correct it. She has stated that she already forgives me and holds nothing against me for what I did. She never actually filed divorce. She just thought about it but never initiated it.

Well it is good, SOT, that you are moving your wife CLOSER to her friends and family and not vice/versa.

One more time though, please answer HOW EXACTLY have you been deemed "safe and cured" of your abusive behavior? How? An abuser must have serious serious therapy. I want to know that your wife is safe. How has SHE healed from your attacks? Is she on medication? Has she been given the PROPER kind of therapy for this?

Again the overwhelming situation at hand is your repeated sexual abuse of your wife. NOT HER CONFIDING in another man, which is AT BEST, an emotional affair, and not an actual physical affair.

You cannot under any circumstance sweep sexual abuse under the rug and pretend it's all about what your wife did here. FOR IT IS NOT.

Your marriage cannot heal until THIS OVERWHELMING situation, the abuse is dealt with. Seriously, I honestly cannot see why she is living with your right now given that you abused her for years and is not living in a womens' shelter.

If she had been talking with a responsible psychiatrist or counselor, they would tell her ADAMANTLY to GET AWAY from her abuser. Not tuck tail and tell you SHE IS SORRY for anything ok?

I honestly doubt she is getting the right help right now. Many times a victim simply complies with the abuser to simply avoid FURTHER traumas.

How is your wife safe right now? How is she really safe? How are you deemed 100 percent safe to be around her? What therapy have you had?

If you truly love your wife, then why is she not already living at home with her family and friends and you insist she live with them UNTIL THE DAY YOU ARE deemed 100 percent cured and safe from this. Until you are cleared by a medical professional to not have this problem anymore.

Your wife will suffer for a long while from the effects of this and I'd like to see you here, right here, admit she needs to get some help as a victim.

Over a year and a half after I left my abusive xwh, I began having the symptoms of ptsd. Mild ones, but they were there and undeniable. I am a med professional and I sought help to make sure I was 100 percent able to be a wonderful mom and to reclaim my life back. I did. But it took a bit of time. And from time to time, I still fear the "scary monster" my xh is/was.
Now I deal with the "scary monster" proactively, not giving him one damn inch. I deal harshly with him, preferring to let the law deal with him if he causes one ounce of a problem.

I hate to say this, but you sound like him. You cannot say or admit exactly what you suffer from or what issue has caused you to become an abuser of your wife. You have never said exactly what type of help you are getting, for a simple counselor cannot help you and you need a PSYCHIATRIST and group/team of professionals to work through these problems.

How can you be best friends with your wife if you abused her for years? How can you be?

Quit sugarcoating everything and answer the questions. Are you getting HELP FROM A PSYCHIATRIST and is your wife getting help THE PROPER HELP as she is a victim of your twisted sexual desires?

And mostly...HOW IS YOUR WIFE SAFE right now? How? Who said you are safe to be living under the same roof as she? And btw, your w didn't want to talk to anybody else about this kind of crazy deviant abuse, because she was EMBARASSED, so she asked a guy about it.

In fact, I DON'T THINK IT WAS EVEN AN EMOTIONAL AFFAIR. I think she simply asked a guy about it and maybe he, like me, asked some probing questions as he could have been scared for her and worried you would harm her further.

Are you also getting help for the obvious control issues you have as well? I sense also that you control things right?

You said your wife also wants to forget this ever happened and wants to move on from all of it. Hmmm. How CAN you properly move on and forget abuse? YOU DO NOT. I wanted the same thing, and two years later, I wound up having horrible moments where I'd be frozen somewhere (could be grocery, at work, anywhere) and relive the fear and pain. Hearing my xwh's voice at a baseball game where my son would play could trigger it. I'd get the whole fear response over and over.

YOU DO NOT FORGET BEING ABUSED. Please do not insult me, nor any other man or woman here who has been by saying you know WHAT WE FEEL. You can't, when you're the abuser.