Third time I've asked, cemar: you said she stopped kissing you 'hello' when she came home. DID YOU ASK HER TO CONTINUE KISSING YOU?

Why are you not answering my question?

maritalbliss:

No, did not ask her to continue kissing me. It was obvious that she was doing it for me, rather than doing it because she wanted to. I could tell because she would make little sounds that seemed to indicate that it was some effort for her to kiss me. When I know that she really does not want to kiss, why would I continue to ask for it?

HoldHerHand:

Let say that I do what has been suggested. Now what? So my wife is romantically in love with me. So now what do we do. She has no natural sex drive, so our marriage will still be a failure. So what is the gameplan at this point? What is the point of having only half a plan.

Cemar, I don't really understand you. If what Vibs posted to you isn't good enough, then nothing will be. Heck, I even posted to you that my wife does all those things that you want your wife to do. This does not equal her sitting around lusting for me, fantasizing all day, and ready to ravishing me when I got home. She initiates quite frequently, flirts all the time, sends dirty texts about what's gonna go down that night.

But it's because she desires me and desires the physical intimacy. Not because she's horny. My wife is like Vibes; it's not a hormone thing. It's a desire thinh?

I think having half a plan is better than having no plan at all, which is where you seem to be right now.

Why do you feel that MB is only 'half a plan', and if you think so little of it, why are you here??? Go find (or start, since you seem to think you know better than anyone) a FULL PLAN.

You keep arguing that even if you and your wife were passionately, romantically in love, there would be no sexual desire. How do you know this? You haven't even tried! Dr. Harley says that SF issues FIX THEMSELVES after romantic love is restored. Why do you not believe him?

Lets assume that your wife was in love with you back when she used to do the things that you now wish she would. Lets also assume that since then she hasn't felt in love with you.

So why would you assume (without trying) that the same wouldn't be true now if your wife truly felt romantic love and emotional intimacy for you.

I gave you the other half of the plan, you just fail to acknowledge it;

You can try Maca Root, which is an over-the-counter herbal product that has some effect in increasing sex drive in women in clinical studies, with marked improvement versus a placebo.

Or, you and your W can consult a physician to try a low dose of testosterone to increase her sex drive.

That's not the problem, though. **edit**. It's not failure that scares you with implementing MB principals, it's success. If MB succeeds, that means that it is you that has been failing, and you can no longer blame your wife.

Excuse that away **edit**, I don't know why anyone wastes time with you when it is obvious you **edit** who is content to suffer and blame your wife rather than do anything to change your situation, and accept some personal responsibility.

That would kill my productivity at work.

hehehe maybe TMI but one of my favorites is to start up Google video while he is up at the library with his laptop, usually after I've finished a workout... while still in my workout clothes, some of them at least.... he's learned to always sit with his back to a wall...

May kill productivity but I find I get good results

Its been awhile since I took this off my watched topics list, and its still goin strong.. I saw it in the recent topics list and revisited.. Much the same, Cemar thinks we are handing out kool-aid.

Well Cemar, I guess you are just afraid to accept that desire, passion, and even love exists outside of sexual desire. Its kinda scary really, that you are that way. Maybe if your penis got cut off in an industrail accident, you would understand if nobody loved you, but I hope not.

And yeah, if my wife didn't want to perform OS, it would not be something I enjoyed. If once in a while it happened, I would enjoy the attention, and the extreme, she was willing to go to to please me, in that very submissive act. If for one second she did it out of fear of losing me, or any kind of fear, it would be time to put on the brakes and talk about it. I am not afraid of getting enough, and never have been, maybe thats why when I was looking I had no problem finding my wife wet and willing. My wife had sexual hangups, and loving her helped her out of them. When things were good, she would come after me a lot, and we could go for hours. God yeah I miss that..

According to your requirements in love matters, I guess I will never know love again unless I am having sex. Like I told my kids when they hit puberty, they have nothing to prove, and sex is just part of love, friendship, honesty and integrity is where you start, and don't worry, all the parts will work fine when the time comes.

You remind me of the young bull and the old bull on the hill story.. The young bull says,,"Hey lets run on down the hill and screw one of those cows!" The old bull says.."I got a better idea, lets walk down and screw them all" Now I wonder if you are thinking.."Ok that means I can screw them all" if I am smart. Thats what I would expect from someone with such a one track mind.

Treat your W with more respect for her emotions will ya, and stop thinking with the wrong head.

This is yet another DJ. You haven't even ASKED her yet you are assuming this.

These assumptions you make on your W's behalf drive me crazy. Why not ask her and THEN tell us what she says instead of assuming you know the answer?

Cemar, do you think that your wife might be turned on by different things than you?

Did you know that some women who either previously weren�t or somehow stopped being interested in sex can be turned on by how guys treat them? Don�t know if that applies to your wife, but just wondering if you know that some women work that way.

Thats a loaded statement, and you are absolulty right about that.

sorry, wasn't trying to be loaded, or sly, or anything like that lol. It's just that for most of my life I didn't realize people don't think or feel the way I do. What do they call that, "theory of mind?"

And, apparently, my lack of desire (for most of my life) is seen as just as abnormal as some people on this thread see cemar's expectations of his wife.

So I was just curious as to whether or not he realizes that some woman can get just as turned on by a strong provider who treats her nice as some men get just by looking at a hottie.

This is sheer absurdity. Get over it and ask her. If you ask her in a nice way and suggest how you could BOTH improve your marriage together, maybe, just maybe, she'd be open to the idea. Now if you say "come to this sight so that I can fix all your problems." .. of course she's not going to want to. What a surprise.

I really shouldn't read this thread. It puts me over my eye-roll limit for the day every time.

It is funny that cemar doesn't connect with this, Being a guy who has occasionally been sexually with "damaged", women, (and I am not saying your damaged ok), there were completly different responses sexually in certain situations. For the women who used to be lesbian and was totally in love with her past lover, and was driven to her because she was married to a man who would abuse her before that, tenderness and respect went a long way sexually. Yes, I know, and have paid for it internally, and will carry that brand for the rest of my life, that if I REALLY respected her I would not have slept with her outside marriage, but that did not change her response.

So then with my late wife, she had seen herself as a sex object for so long, and never got the safe place to be as a young woman, moving and running away so much, and she was allways being chased by men also, that a man with patience and understanding like I approached her with made difference in how she responded. It was what I represented also, my dreams and aspirations, that attracted her. When things were good for us, and there was trust and submission sexually. When she would drink or do drugs, it was no longer two people bonding, it was an act of performance. Two totally different worlds.

In both cases, when sex was more than the act, and had something more behind it that appealed to the womens emotions, past pain and confusion, removing tension and worry, they responded willingly and were sexually aroused. It wasn't pity that drew them to me, it was thier own needs getting fufilled, and sex with someone who loved them was the difference.

Sex doesn't stay the same in marriage, as when you first met. It changes with you, as you change also. Cemar doesn't want to change, but change is inevitable, and change comes anyways.

No matter how you slice it, staying in love does not mean you will allways do the right things together. There are plenty of people who are in love and make mistakes together, and still are in love and need each other. RH, POJA, and working together is what keeps us together, not the stock market, fame or fortune, those are secondary. Sharing those things, the mistakes, and the victorys can't happen if your on different pages in life or how you percieve it. You have got to give 50/50 to get that. Both giving everything they have and communicating it also, and it has to be reciprocated with the same intensity.

If you are not willing to submit something for her Cemar, she won't be willing to submit anything to you either. Is she afraid to talk about it? Find out why and work on it. It takes two to passionatly go after each other to fufill thier needs, or did you figure it out yet, that is what sex is, a selfish need? Give her what she wants to want at least, so she can get it from you, instead of telling her her needs are not valid, and only the way you see it, will be acceptable.

Daisy I think you are right on and it is the way she feels about herself that might be what is holding her back. We have allready heard how she says she has a LD, and how she just doesn't care for sex anymore. What it is it seems is she doesn't care for sex the way Cemar likes it, and he is not willing to find out what blows her skirt up and excites her.

C'mon Cemar, she has a pulse does she not?

Cenar....sheeesh!. All I can say is that I am amazed this thread is still alive!

Cemar, if you don't realize it, the person you should be resolving this with (and with an open and understanding mind) is your W. You could get 90% of the people here to agree with you, but that wouldn't resolve your situation one iota - because it does not seem you are involving her in any way!

The thing I would be very much afraid of doing if I were in your shoes is talking here about her the way you do. It shows condescension and lack of respect. Your statements seem to indicate that you view her as defective, or almost a reject! If you are that way here, then I have to believe that at least some of your attitude is very visible to her. You are not treating her as a whole person! I take it that the two of you are still fairly young - I cannot imagine someone being married for a fairly long period of time feeling the way you do. You should count your lucky stars that she hasn't tuned out of your marriage emotionally. However, unless you honestly work with her and yourself on getting a realistic grip on this I believe you're risking waking up some morning and finding a note attached to your pillow stating that she's had it. At this time you seem to be the type of person who likes pushing the envelope just for the sake of it.

Good Luck,

Tom

I believe Cemar has stated he and his wife are in their 60's.

If this is true, and I missed it, then I am very embarrassed at how much crap I have given Cemar. There has to be long complicated set of issues with people from a generation over ten years older than mine. I was assuming they were my age or younger, and would have less hangups.
I still believe he can change his marriage as he changes how he thinks and feels it's that I feel that I was to quick to judge. Sex can be great till the end and age does not matter. Just health of course
Hang in there