MIL would not be helpful. She just doesn't think that way, brought up tough and has lived a tough life. She is widowed and dh is the oldest boy and can fix anything. Thankfully, we are not mowing her lawn all summer like last year. It's huge and took half a day every other weekend. Older sister took that over thank the Lord. He didn't really understand why that bothered me either. I kept wondering if MIL did not fully realize he is only home weekends. His younger (spoiled) sister lives next door to MIL and she also has numerous fix-it requests.

I just thought of a great solution! You all move to where your Hs job is. Takes care of the overnights, the inlaws, score!

Seriously, though, have you thought of doing that?

I've suggested it many times. We used to live there early in our marriage. Neither one of us really likes the area though, and dh feels the co. That bought them out is working toward possibly closing the plant.

I was just on the radio. It was a helpful start, and Dr. Harley and Joyce seem very caring.

He said that the 15 hours of UA is the first thing we have to achieve, and though some of that time should be learning better problem solving, much of it should just be the fun recreational time. We brainstormed some possibilities for that. He is sending me the newer version of His Needs, Her Needs so that he can read the clarifications about recreational time that are in it.

Also, we talked about my anger/bitterness and that I have to stop that so that our 15 hours are safe for him. I totally agree with that and have been working on that over the weekend. I am trying to be more honest instead of stuffing feelings, but doing it in the right way. I see some things that are habits that I was not willing to see before, such as getting little digs in (DJ for ex.).

Anyway, that's the update for now. Dh is doing the EQ and LBQ this week and took the Love Busters book along. Dr. Harley and Joyce did caution us not to fight about the questionnaires, which I had wondered about while filling mine out.

I haven't had the chance to listen to the program yet--did they give you instructions on how to share the Qs? When we coached with Steve, he gave us very specific instructions which were immensely more helpful than the way we'd done it previously--which had been to fill them out and then give them to each other to read.

If they gave you a way to do, listen to them! In case they didn't, here's how Steve had us do it:

For each questionnaire, you have a speaker and a listener. This is best done at different times--maybe share the ENQ one day, then do the LBQ another. Sit down across from each other, and the speaker reads their own Q to the listener. The listener is to TAKE NOTES on what is said, real written ones, not mental ones! The listener is to say NOTHING except to ask a clarifying question, ie: You say that a way for him to meet your need for affection would be to kiss you when he comes in the door. A clarifying question might be, "Should I do that even if it appears that you are busy?" NOT "If you wanted that, why have you been such a cold witch all these years when I try to approach you?" DO NOT ANSWER any leading or accusatory 'questions', they are not questions! They are bait.

When the speaker is explaining something on their Q, stop when the listener indicates that it is understood.

Whichever Q you're doing at the time, start with the item of greatest importance (the one you ranked the highest). We actually went back and forth--I would tell my H about my #1 EN, then he would tell me his, then I'd tell him my #2, etc.

This is simply an information gathering session, not a hashing it out session. Stick to the facts, ma'am. At the end of each sharing session, we each had four or five pages of notes. This is your map!

Here is the show: radio clip for 4/18/2011

Talked to dh for a long time tonight. He is really questioning the whole MB concept. He feels that, from what he is reading, he is the one that will have to do most of the changing. He said that he is doing the questionnaires and there isn't much I would need to change. It makes him unhappy that he would have to change that much, he thinks that the statistic cited in the book, that 75% of divorces are initiated by women, is proof that women's expectations for marriage are just too high and maybe that is what needs worked on.

I know he probably doesn't mean it this way, but the underlying feeling I get from all that is that my needs don't matter to him. I have been pointing out that the point of MB is for BOTH of us to end up very happy, not just me. The questionnaires simply point out what needs to be worked on, it's like a formula. He doesn't see it that way and says that I haven't said enough to convince him that our eggs should be in this basket. He fears that if we try this and it doesn't work, that I'll throw in the towel. I told him I am not planning that, but if we are going to try it we have to fully try it, otherwise how would we know if it helped?

Not sure where to go from here.

It was suggested by me as well as others to provide a concrete example of something he will get from following the Marriage Builders program.

So what example did you give him?

He's doing as I predicted. He thinks it's about how you are trying to fix him.

You have to provide a credible case that you are trying to provide him with something he wants out of the marriage that he's not getting, and the MB program will do that.

So what did you suggest he would get that he's not currently getting if he follows the program?

If you cannot do that, then he'll continue to think it's about fixing him.

I've been explaining that he is going to get a wife that has learned that AO and DJ is not the way to resolve problems. He is going to get the POJA, which means I won't make decisions he is not happy with (ex. the budget, how to raise the kids, etc. have been somewhat unilateral since the time we almost separated). I also told him that we will both have more fun time together and gave him examples of feelings we've had in the past when we had weekends away.

Also that once he has his Q's done, I'll be able to see what I can do better for him. And things I can do that kill the love. But he says I'm already doing pretty well at all that, so what is his motivation to change?

Not sure what else to say to him.

What does he want. At this moment, he may not care about AO's and DJ's from you. He may not care about the POJA. You are telling him he's going to get the program.

Unless the MB program has been on his Christmas list, you are likely offering him things YOU want.

What's on his "Christmas List" of things he wants that following the MB program will get him.

A new bass boat, a wife who initiate wild, swing from the chandelier sex 7x's a week. What's on his list.

By asking the question, "What's his motivation to change, you are telling him (even if you don't say it to him) that your goal is to fix him.

He's wise to that and he's on to you.

I'm asking what he wants and he is saying his needs are already mostly met. He would like more respect from me and more involvement in child discipline. I told him the POJA would take care of the discipline as we'd both be enthusiastically agreeing. He said he's not sure he even wants that, seems to just want me to agree and him to do what he sees fit. I guess if he doesn't see the need for MB there's not much I can do about that.

Does he want a marriage where you are both in love? That is the goal of the program. I don't think he understands that his behavior is causing you to fall out of love with him. Have you been honest with him about that?

What he gets out of it is a romantic relationship.

Yes, I've told him that my feelings of love have decreased and it would bring them back. He just keeps saying he can't be in a program that lets me be the judge of what he is doing.

My guess is, you are a giver and he is a taker. Of course this is all right with him. The problem is, you can't keep being a giver forever.

I was in your postion and I had an affair. (NOT a course of action I am recommending). There is no excuse for an affair. I did not protect my boundaries. I also did not really speak up about any problems. In both of our families, the status quo was to deal with it. Women would often share their miseries in a one upmanship kinda way. As long as the men were providing for us and not gambling our money away or cheating then what could we possibly have to complain about?

The sad thing was, that even after I had my affair, even my mother in law was too understanding stating that if she had had that option, she may have done the same...how sad. Nobody learned to talk about their needs and if they did so, they were considered weak.

I don't really have any advice except to say you are doing the right thing not sweeping this under the carpet. You husband probably really does love you, he just didn't realize what that involved. You don't have an open gaping wound he can see, but it is there and you need to show him

Perhaps talking to Steve Harely will help shed some light on this as well as allow someone else to prompt him (rather than you seeming to nag about it.) You would be counseled individually so he doesn't need to buy in right away.

Good luck.

That's because he is in love with his IB, and will hang onto it with grubby little fists like a child. (harsh? lol)

There is no 'judge' in POJA--'joint agreement' are the key words. Nobody gets a unilateral decision, there is nobody higher or lower. Try to get him on the radio program, or if you can swing it, make a call to the coaching center and get him a chat with Steve, who can explain POJA to him. Mel is right; once he understands it, if he doesn't do it, happy marriage with him is impossible. Unless, of course, you lower your standards, as your H has so eloquently stated as a solution.

You know what you need to work on...do that. It's so much easier than it seems to be, keeping your cool and holding your barbs. Just hang in there; I listened to your call and I know the Harleys told you to expect your husband to AO when you stop...hang in there. You have a beautiful large family that deserves your best effort. It will likely get rough and ugly. You ARE asking a lot of your husband right now, but you deserve everything you're asking for. Try to keep in mind something that I've told myself over and over again: "I deserve more than this, and we are worth the effort."

Even if he won't get on the radio program, YOU can and then you can get him to listen in. I agree with CWMI, if you can afford it, having a chat with Steve may just be the thing he needs to hear from another man. Steve is very good about getting through to people.

I've been wondering what I would do if dh decides he doesn't want anything to do with MB principles. I realize I can work on my own issues, and keep my needs on the table. Is that it? Should I pursue other interests so I don't feel so lonely? I really have no time/energy for that right now, but I don't think having a life that is all work and no play is good for me.

This weekend dh and I had some alone time and also quite a bit of family time, which was nice. We didn't get to the questionnaires yet, due to Easter activities and the fact that my Mom went into the hospital and we were dealing with that.

However, last night when I came to bed dh was watching a golf show. No big deal, I asked about it etc. then began to read. Dh wasn't really talking, but at one point he said that last week, when he did go golfing, they had a new guy in their foursome. This guy told them he had only been back to golfing for two years. He had given up golf for 20 years because his previous wife didn't like golf. Now he is divorced and remarried to a woman who golfs, so he is back to it.

I then proceeded to ask if he would enjoy my golfing with him. Basically he said that it might be OK once in a while, but I am a slow (and poor) golfer and he felt I wouldn't really enjoy it, partly because ppl have to wait behind me, which he recalls makes me feel pressured. I asked if the main thing he likes about golf is the competition with the guys, and he said yes.

I suppose we'll figure more out with the ENQ and recreational inventory, but I didn't know how to take those comments. It felt a little threatening, like he'd consider divorce like that guy he talked to, or he thinks the woman was bossy and selfish and that led to their divorce. Thoughts?

You can become a millionaire in 30 years just investing $3,000 a year. That's the cost of a cigarette or golf habit.

How about your husband give up golf for a year and try a new lifestyle of MB? I am serious. Anything that is a habit, that does nothing to improve you, is close to being a vice, like smoking or just laying around watching TV. Give it up for year.

Dh and I plan to go over the ENQ and LBQs this weekend. I asked him tonight how his ENQ came out and his top three were #1 domestic support, #2 financial support and #3 attractive spouse. I told him mine were #1 affection, #2 conversation and #3 financial support.

That has me thinking. I have found that with the jobs I'm working (which meets need #2 for him), it makes it very hard to meet #1 or #3 to his satisfaction. With the jobs on top of homeschooling (which we both like), it's hard to keep up with some of the things around the house that bother him (carpet needs cleaned, fridge cleaned out etc.). He has never agreed we could hire anyone for any of that (finances and not spending are impt to him). Also, it is very hard for me to lose weight, I don't have the time to cook great healthy dinners, and I have no energy left for exercise (have chronic fatigue and/or fibromyalgia)).

I'll have to wait til we talk in more detail, but he had said that most of his needs are already met, so maybe I don't need to worry too much. But it just seems some needs can conflict with others!